Ascetic Style and Versatile Design


Rules Questions


Versatile Design was added in Adventurer's Armory 2 and lets you treat a weapon as if it belonged to a Fighter weapon group of your choice.

This got me interested in Ascetic Style. I know I can't pick the weapon for Ascetic Style, as the weapon doesn't modify the weapon group. My question is whether the Special for Ascetic Style applies to all weapons in the Monk fighter weapon group or to all weapons with the Monk property. The wording is quite ambiguous.

I'm inclined to think since the rest of the feat cares about the weapon group, that's what matters, but clarity would be nice.


Weapon Master's Handbook wrote:

Ascetic Style

...
Special: A 5th-level monk or character with the weapon training (monk) class feature can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon, in addition to the chosen melee weapon.

The convention is that "monk weapon" means a weapon with the monk special feature.

UE wrote:

Special: Some weapons have special features in addition to those noted in their descriptions.

...
Monk: A monk weapon can be used by a monk to perform a flurry of blows.

This is similar to referring to weapons with the reach special feature as "reach weapons."

UE wrote:
Reach: You can use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe.

When referring to weapons in the Fighter Weapon Group the convention is to explicitly mention the Fighter Weapon Group.

Weapon Master's Handbook wrote:

Ascetic Style

...
Benefit: Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.

So the Benefits section of Ascetic Style is referring to weapons in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group while the Special section is referring to weapons with the monk special feature.


Related Versatile Design question.

A Brawler is proficient with all weapons from the close fighter weapon group.

If I use Versatile Design to put a weapon into the close fighter group, am I proficient with that version of it but not the unmodified version? Does it matter if the weapon in question was martial, and is now exotic?


Thanks for the thorough reply Gisher, that checks out.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Related Versatile Design question.

A Brawler is proficient with all weapons from the close fighter weapon group.

If I use Versatile Design to put a weapon into the close fighter group, am I proficient with that version of it but not the unmodified version? Does it matter if the weapon in question was martial, and is now exotic?

As for this, I believe not. If it was already Exotic would gain the Exotic Weapon Proficiency but would need to take Modified Weapon Proficiency. Modifications rules call out that class features don't make you automatically proficient with Modified weapons.


For reference:

The bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, deer horn knife, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungchuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sanpkhang, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, and wushu dart are all Monk Special Weapons and also in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.

The knuckle axe, bich'hwa, temple sword, and waveblade are Monk Special Weapons but are not in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.

The tri-point double-edged sword, unarmed strike, and urumi are in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group but are not Monk Special Weapons. (But of course unarmed strike doesn't need to be a Monk Special Weapon to flurry.)


yiannisph wrote:


As for this, I believe not. If it was already Exotic would gain the Exotic Weapon Proficiency but would need to take Modified Weapon Proficiency. Modifications rules call out that class features don't make you automatically proficient with Modified weapons.

Not quite, they say

Quote:

A character proficient

with a specific weapon (such as a cleric’s proficiency with her
deity’s favored weapon) is not automatically proficient with a
modified weapon of that type.

So, things like weapon familiarity granting proficiency, or a Warpriest with his gods weapon are called out as not qualifying. I'm not convinced that "All Close Weapons" = "a specific weapon".

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