Escaping a demiplane that blocks conjuration spells


Rules Questions


Hello All,

I am playing a high level pathfinder game that has several groups within the world. Well my character found out that 1 person in a rival group has created a demiplane to imprison me. The plane blocks conjuration spells so 1 can not escape. I was curious if there is away to get out of this?

I thought possibly casting Antimagic Field, to temporarily suppress the Conjuration impediment within the field. Then cast Prismatic Sphere within, because that is 1 of the few spells that can work within the field. Then cast Plane Shift inside the Prismatic Sphere.

In short Antimagic Field -> Prismatic Sphere -> Plane Shift. Would that work?

Can anyone think of any other possible ways of getting out?


Cast limited wish/wish/miracle/mage's disjunction and pass the CL check (trivial if you happen to have a Cyclops Helm).

Alternatively you could just have a wish/miracle mimic plane shift. Not a conjuration spell strictly speaking.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Cast limited wish/wish/miracle/mage's disjunction and pass the CL check (trivial if you happen to have a Cyclops Helm).

Alternatively you could just have a wish/miracle mimic plane shift. Not a conjuration spell strictly speaking.

I honestly completely forgot about wish/mage's disjunction.

Hypothetically, would the method i mentioned have worked?


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I wouldn't think so. I don't see any reason why being inside a Pris Sphere would waive the anti-conjuration setting the demiplane has barring a very liberal reading of the blocking projections line (I doubt the plane is projecting anything, it's just a constant like gravity).

Sovereign Court

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Depending on "where" the anti-player plane is, you could use Shadow Walk to get out.

Sovereign Court

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Use divination spells to find the nearest gate.


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Know any psions that you can contact with Sending? Planar Travel is not a conjuration effect. I am sure someone will come get your for the right price.

Ethereal Jaunt gets you to the Ethereal plane, and you can just Plane Shift from there before the spell ends.


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Firebug wrote:
Depending on "where" the anti-player plane is, you could use Shadow Walk to get out.

I was just about to say this. Basically any effect that moves you to a different plane without being conjuration. Likely targets are Plane of Shadows, and the Ethereal plane.

Other options:
Possibly Blink (Transmutation)
Ethereal Jaunt (Transmutation)
Shadow Walk (Illusion)
Dismissal (Abjuration)
Banishment (Abjuration)
Sacrifice (Enchantment. Offer yourself as a sacrifice to an outsider that wants living creatures. Probably worse, but still an option.)
Holy Word / Blasphemy / Word of Chaos (Evocation, cast upon you by a native of the plane. Unlikely)
True Resurrection (Conjuration, but not cast upon your prison plane. Disintegrate yourself after sending a message to a friend on a different plane.)

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I wouldn't bother. I'd smile and ask "If it blocks conjuration, how were you planning on getting there?" If conjuration is blocked, any attempts to travel there by conjuration will fail, too. So he'd have to build a permanent portal.

Sacrifice wouldn't work, it only works as part of casting a summoning/calling spell.


Quote:
Enticement: Making a sacrifice the round before conjuring increases the DC of the Will save an outsider must make to resist being summoned.

1 Minute casting time, offer self as sacrafice, get taken to wherever entities goods are stored, gain bonus on summon planar ally DC if you cast it in the next round.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That still doesn't help you escape. None of that Sacrifice/Planar Ally combo works once you're captured. Now, you could pick a lawful outsider, call it before you are captured, swear fealty to it, and then when you're taken, by your oaths it will probably be on its way to get you back. Not quite the usual idea, but could work.

The Exchange

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Yeah; dismissal is probably your best bet. And also the lowest level option.

You got lucky :) One of the options for greater create demiplane is "dead magic" where no magic works. (Essentially an antimagic field for the whole plane.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Always curious about how that works. If it's a dead magic area, how do you leave? You can't teleport/planeshift/gate/whatever. You can't create a portal, as the magic wouldn't connect. Either you create a plane you can never leave, or one you can never enter, if you were outside when it formed.

Dark Archive

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Val'bryn2 wrote:
Always curious about how that works. If it's a dead magic area, how do you leave?

Science

The Exchange

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Val'bryn2 wrote:
Always curious about how that works. If it's a dead magic area, how do you leave? You can't teleport/planeshift/gate/whatever. You can't create a portal, as the magic wouldn't connect. Either you create a plane you can never leave, or one you can never enter, if you were outside when it formed.

The GameMastery Guide makes an exception for permanent portals. There's also language in the text of greater create demiplane to the same effect.

Quote:
If you selected dead magic, you are trapped within your plane unless it has a permanent planar portal (such as the portal feature, below).

Apparently once a portal is established you don't need magic to keep it going. Presumably there are an infinite number of dead magic demiplanes that no one from outside has ever visited because there was no portal there before it became dead magic.


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loknarj wrote:
Well my character found out that 1 person in a rival group has created a demiplane to imprison me. The plane blocks conjuration spells so 1 can not escape.

I'm wondering how such a demiplane is being created. It seems to me that your GM has one of three options in mind, but none will prevent you from leaving.

------------------------------

(1) The Limited Magic Trait
From your description, it sounds like your rival is giving the demiplane the Limited Magic Trait so that Conjuration magic won't work.

CM wrote:
Limited Magic: Planes with this trait permit only the use of spells and spell-like abilities that meet particular qualifications. Magic can be limited to effects from certain schools or subschools, effects with certain descriptors, or effects of a certain level (or any combination of these qualities). Spells and spell-like abilities that don't meet the qualifications simply don't work.

The problem is that none of the Create Demiplane spells let you add the Limited Magic Trait. It's easy to overlook that fact since Greater Create Demiplane lets you add any of the other Magic Traits listed in that section of Campaign Mastery.

UM wrote:
Magic: Your plane gains the dead magic, enhanced magic, impeded magic, or wild magic planar trait (see Magic Traits, GameMastery Guide 187).

So your rival can’t use this Trait to prevent Conjuration Magic. Your GM may have read the rules incorrectly.

------------------------------

(2) The Impeded Magic Trait
It is possible to add the Impeded Magic Trait with Greater Create Demiplane. That could make Conjuration Spells difficult, but not impossible, to cast.

Quote:
Impeded Magic: Particular spells and spell-like abilities are more difficult to cast on planes with this trait, often because the nature of the plane interferes with the spell. To cast an impeded spell, the caster must make a concentration check (DC 20 + the level of the spell). If the check fails, the spell does not function but is still lost as a prepared spell or spell slot. If the check succeeds, the spell functions normally.

Maybe your rival is feeding you false information to make you believe that Conjuration spells don't work so that you won't even try them. To overcome Impeded Magic you want to improve your ability to overcome the higher DC (Heighten Spell for example.)

------------------------------

(3) The Dead Magic Trait
You can’t just block Conjuration magic, but you can use the Dead Magic Trait to block all magic. As others have pointed out, this makes it impossible to get you there unless a permanent portal has been constucted, and that permanent portal provides your means to escape.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Actually, Gisher, in the case you present for Impeded Magic, Heighten Spell actually hurts you, because it adds to the DC, but not to your check to beat said DC. Otherwise, you do make a good point that, unless this is DM fiat, it can't be done.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
Actually, Gisher, in the case you present for Impeded Magic, Heighten Spell actually hurts you, because it adds to the DC, but not to your check to beat said DC. Otherwise, you do make a good point that, unless this is DM fiat, it can't be done.

Oops, you are correct about Heighten Spell being a bad idea.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
That still doesn't help you escape. None of that Sacrifice/Planar Ally combo works once you're captured. Now, you could pick a lawful outsider, call it before you are captured, swear fealty to it, and then when you're taken, by your oaths it will probably be on its way to get you back. Not quite the usual idea, but could work.

The sacrificed object is destroyed or taken to the creatures extraplanar storage location. It SHOULDN'T work, because it's silly, but seems to be rules legal to me. It also offers the DM a chance to royaly screw you over at the exact same moment it gives him a reason to...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I might be wrong, but I read it as being cast with the planar spell, sort of like a magic circle in binding mode


Rope trick is transmutation, that might get you out of the demiplane's effect.


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Avoron wrote:
Rope trick is transmutation, that might get you out of the demiplane's effect.

I hadn't even considered that, that's brilliant! And then, you just Plane Shift out of your rope trick and you're good to go.

Although it's GM decision what planes you can even reach from a place that is not on any planes. Plane Shift states that "From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane", heavily implying that that is not the case for every location or even every plane. I'd argue that a fairly sensible interpretation of Plane Shift is that you can't shift out of extradimensial spaces at all, so you would have to go with one of the Ethereal/Astral options.

As an aside, I just noticed that Blink specifically states that you shift back and forth between the Material and the Ethereal Plane which makes me wonder what would happen if you cast it on any other plane. Do you just leave that plane to blink back and forth between the Material and Etheral Plane, essentially giving you a cheap, but very temporary Plane Shift?
That is very obviously not the intention, but the only reasonable interpretation I can think of from the rules as written. Shadow Walk specifically talks about the Material Plane as well.

Scarab Sages

Nixitur wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Rope trick is transmutation, that might get you out of the demiplane's effect.

I hadn't even considered that, that's brilliant! And then, you just Plane Shift out of your rope trick and you're good to go.

Although it's GM decision what planes you can even reach from a place that is not on any planes. Plane Shift states that "From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane", heavily implying that that is not the case for every location or even every plane. I'd argue that a fairly sensible interpretation of Plane Shift is that you can't shift out of extradimensial spaces at all, so you would have to go with one of the Ethereal/Astral options.

As an aside, I just noticed that Blink specifically states that you shift back and forth between the Material and the Ethereal Plane which makes me wonder what would happen if you cast it on any other plane. Do you just leave that plane to blink back and forth between the Material and Etheral Plane, essentially giving you a cheap, but very temporary Plane Shift?
That is very obviously not the intention, but the only reasonable interpretation I can think of from the rules as written. Shadow Walk specifically talks about the Material Plane as well.

Any reasonable GM should allow both of those to work on any plane that borders the Ethereal and Shadow plane respectively.


All rules assume you are a medium humanoid on the material plane, unless otherwise noted. More than half of them get stupidly wonky if any of those assumptions is untrue.

Scarab Sages

toastedamphibian wrote:
All rules assume you are a medium humanoid on the material plane, unless otherwise noted. More than half of them get stupidly wonky if any of those assumptions is untrue.

Medium 4 limbed(two arms, two legs) humanoid on the material plane. Adding arms by itself complicates and breaks things in major ways.


Lorewalker wrote:
Any reasonable GM should allow both of those to work on any plane that borders the Ethereal and Shadow plane respectively.

Yeah, obviously, but it's funny to see how quickly some abilities stop making sense once you're out of the standard environment.

Lorewalker wrote:
toastedamphibian wrote:
All rules assume you are a medium humanoid on the material plane, unless otherwise noted. More than half of them get stupidly wonky if any of those assumptions is untrue.
Medium 4 limbed(two arms, two legs) humanoid on the material plane. Adding arms by itself complicates and breaks things in major ways.

It even gets wonky for completely legitimate PC races on the Material World. For example, World Wave would seriously mess up Aasimars, Tieflings and any of the elemental races, even though they're native to the Material World.


Are we complaining about planar typing now? If so, why don't most fey have the (extraplanar) subtype, given that the First World is not the Material Plane?

Dark Archive

Is the First World only accessible via planar breaches in the material plane or can it be accessed via the Ethereal? (I think it's cut-off from the Astral due to the god/outsider ban, but I could be wrong...)


As far as I can tell, the inhabitants are disconnected from the cycle of life and death but not from the Astral Plane itself (PFwiki makes no mention of this).

However, since both the Shadow and Ethereal planes (the closest ones I know of to the Material) have their natives as (extraplanar) on the Material, I see no reason why this shouldn't apply to the First World as well.

Dark Archive

First World is kinda special. One could argue it's the SAME plane as the material plane, just not the PRIME material plane... :)

(canon explains it as a rough draft of the prime, so technically it 'could' be the same plane in terms of extraplanar designation... that would explain why the fey can go back and forth without the extraplanar designation... one could also see it as an OLD material plane that's been left behind)


Lorewalker wrote:
Nixitur wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Rope trick is transmutation, that might get you out of the demiplane's effect.

As an aside, I just noticed that Blink specifically states that you shift back and forth between the Material and the Ethereal Plane which makes me wonder what would happen if you cast it on any other plane. Do you just leave that plane to blink back and forth between the Material and Etheral Plane, essentially giving you a cheap, but very temporary Plane Shift?

I've always played Blink as needing the Ethereal plane to work. If you are not adjacent, no Blink. Never assumed the same of the "Prime" part, however. But if you are really into RAW, one could rule you can only use this spell on the Prime or on the Ethereal.

Not the way I would run it, but............


Yanndu wrote:

First World is kinda special. One could argue it's the SAME plane as the material plane, just not the PRIME material plane... :)

(canon explains it as a rough draft of the prime, so technically it 'could' be the same plane in terms of extraplanar designation... that would explain why the fey can go back and forth without the extraplanar designation... one could also see it as an OLD material plane that's been left behind)

Except it diverged from the material before the material/shadow split from one another.

my headcanon conspiracy:

It's not a failed prototype. If it was, it would be a much more reasonable source of "junk energy" for Groteus than atheist souls (seriously, shouldn't most gods of freedom be annoyed at the punishment of those not wanting to consign themselves to an immortal?). I think it occupies a position opposite the Shadow plane (i.e. slightly closer to the Positive Energy Plane than the material, otherwise about the same).

However, it's been terraformed. The Eldest, originally natives of the Material, have adjusted the energy such that they and other fey are not treated as Extraplanar there, nor are they capable of truly dying there (given they've created the Tane, which explicitly have a way around being extraplanar, this isn't the biggest stretch).

The name is a warning. A land where nothing is certain save that the fey are overwhelmingly in advantange. And it is only the First.

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