So what're the least-optimal options these days?


Advice

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Chess Pwn wrote:
Cavall wrote:
plaidwandering wrote:
You don't understand that the sacred fist archetype was designed as an unarmed focused warpriest?

What I "understand" is that it is focused in a route he chose to not go in and still made it viable.

Like a fighter choosing to not use the hardest hitting weapon. He had the option, went a different route using the exact same archetype and came out great.

And that's the point. Unplayable? No. Clearly not. Not every option given by any class needs to be taken or used.

General census is that unarmed combat is worse than weapon combat. Like going fists is a downgrade from using a weapon for the sacred fist.

That's basically like saying "this is a wizard archetype focussed on illusions that he built to be using summons, haste, pits, tentacles and whatnot." It's ignoring the theme of the class for a mechanically better option.

Have you met Divination "specialists?"


that's the problem, it's NOT focused well in that area. It's so poorly designed that it's worse at it than the base archetype.

It's also no secret that grabbing 2h proficiency and going to town with flurry with a matching deity is good damage for a sacred fist, these builds have been posted multiple times in this forum over the last two years. Even still - unless you are playing a seriously high op game an unarmed sacred fist will still punch things with a divine self-buffing aspect fairly well.

Frankly, the warpriest class with or without archetypes never deserved a mention in a thread originally titled about unplayble trash. It's always served as a perfectly adequate beatstick, it's just not innovative or good utility - but that's not unique in beatsticks and doesn't make it unplayable trash.


plaidwandering wrote:

that's the problem, it's NOT focused well in that area. It's so poorly designed that it's worse at it than the base archetype.

It's also no secret that grabbing 2h proficiency and going to town with flurry with a matching deity is good damage for a sacred fist, these builds have been posted multiple times in this forum over the last two years. Even still - unless you are playing a seriously high op game an unarmed sacred fist will still punch things with a divine self-buffing aspect fairly well.

Frankly, the warpriest class with or without archetypes never deserved a mention in a thread originally titled about unplayble trash. It's always served as a perfectly adequate beatstick, it's just not innovative or good utility - but that's not unique in beatsticks and doesn't make it unplayable trash.

The only reason it was even brought up was people wanted non lg/ce anti/paladins and i said warpriest fills the holy warrior role just fine for other alignments.


I agree with that Ryan. Also, when I say poorly designed for sacred fist, I don't say that to mean it's rubbish. Just that it missed its goal.


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Ryan Freire wrote:
plaidwandering wrote:

that's the problem, it's NOT focused well in that area. It's so poorly designed that it's worse at it than the base archetype.

It's also no secret that grabbing 2h proficiency and going to town with flurry with a matching deity is good damage for a sacred fist, these builds have been posted multiple times in this forum over the last two years. Even still - unless you are playing a seriously high op game an unarmed sacred fist will still punch things with a divine self-buffing aspect fairly well.

Frankly, the warpriest class with or without archetypes never deserved a mention in a thread originally titled about unplayble trash. It's always served as a perfectly adequate beatstick, it's just not innovative or good utility - but that's not unique in beatsticks and doesn't make it unplayable trash.

The only reason it was even brought up was people wanted non lg/ce anti/paladins and i said warpriest fills the holy warrior role just fine for other alignments.

And then people said we didn't need that cause it's just a cleric with a few extra feats and thus fails to meet it's goal of being the holy warrior of any alignment. Then the OP saw that it failed and thus thought it was considered bad class fail, not which was actually saying that it was bad cause it was unneeded fail.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
plaidwandering wrote:

that's the problem, it's NOT focused well in that area. It's so poorly designed that it's worse at it than the base archetype.

It's also no secret that grabbing 2h proficiency and going to town with flurry with a matching deity is good damage for a sacred fist, these builds have been posted multiple times in this forum over the last two years. Even still - unless you are playing a seriously high op game an unarmed sacred fist will still punch things with a divine self-buffing aspect fairly well.

Frankly, the warpriest class with or without archetypes never deserved a mention in a thread originally titled about unplayble trash. It's always served as a perfectly adequate beatstick, it's just not innovative or good utility - but that's not unique in beatsticks and doesn't make it unplayable trash.

The only reason it was even brought up was people wanted non lg/ce anti/paladins and i said warpriest fills the holy warrior role just fine for other alignments.
And then people said we didn't need that cause it's just a cleric with a few extra feats and thus fails to meet it's goal of being the holy warrior of any alignment. Then the OP saw that it failed and thus thought it was considered bad class fail, not which was actually saying that it was bad cause it was unneeded fail.

Yeah at that point it became pretty clear that there's a school of thought that you require full BAB to be a holy warrior and there's really not much point in arguing with that.

In the same way that if you look at sacred weapon, the weapon boost, and the armor boost and come up with "cleric with a few extra feats" there's not much common ground for discussion anymore.


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Ryan Freire wrote:

Yeah at that point it became pretty clear that there's a school of thought that you require full BAB to be a holy warrior and there's really not much point in arguing with that.

In the same way that if you look at sacred weapon, the weapon boost, and the armor boost and come up with "cleric with a few extra feats" there's not much common ground for discussion anymore.

Someone that wanted to play a paladin and was handed a warpriest would have justification to be upset. One is NOT the other and they clearly aren't interchangeable. I think we lose common ground when you put forth the idea that they were.


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Haha, another thread derailed!


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graystone wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:

Yeah at that point it became pretty clear that there's a school of thought that you require full BAB to be a holy warrior and there's really not much point in arguing with that.

In the same way that if you look at sacred weapon, the weapon boost, and the armor boost and come up with "cleric with a few extra feats" there's not much common ground for discussion anymore.

Someone that wanted to play a paladin and was handed a warpriest would have justification to be upset. One is NOT the other and they clearly aren't interchangeable. I think we lose common ground when you put forth the idea that they were.

They're both heavy armor, martial weapon wielding divine warriors who can heal with a touch, have access to spells from their divine patron, and can enhance their weapons (and/or armor) with divine might. There's even an antipal archetype that lets you go LE. No, it seems like the real beef is there's no convenient way to get Cha to attack, damage, saves, and AC via CG paladin of desna.


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Paladin Derailment Specialist wrote:
Haha, another thread derailed!

LOL I've seen FAR more paladins that were 'unplayable' after the DM set them up to fall than I've seen any other 'unplayable' class brought up. So I'd refute derailment, because a fallen paladin can be "'bad' stuff like the chained rogue" and that was the standard the OP used. ;)

Ryan Freire: A paladin is a 'fighter' that uses divine supernatural abilities: spells a clear/distant second place. Entire fights can be by without casting.

A warpriest is primarily a caster that uses spells to emulate a 'fighter'. Casting is in the forefront and it's a rare battle where they don't cast spells.

They play VERY DIFFERENTLY!!! THEY ARE NOT EQUIVALENT!!! Continuing to doggedly say so is disingenuous in the extreme. And I COULD CARE LESS about desna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remove that from the equation, and I feel the same. YOU have a thing about desna, not I. Assume EVERYTHING I say applies to a cg paladin of a generic deity with NO special traits/feats/ect.

PS: And who ever uses fervor to heal?????? [or channel]


Ryan Freire wrote:


No, it seems like the real beef is there's no convenient way to get Cha to attack, damage, saves, and AC via CG paladin of desna.

I believe the proper combo-wombo is a CG paladin (/mystery cultist/lore oracle) of Arshea who did a sabbatical at the church of Desna to learn how to swing starknives.


So if Warpriest had an archetype that let them choose a spell they can cast and prepare it in a lower level slot (minimum 1st): they can do this every 4 levels Trading Sacred Weapons +1 enhancement; how powerful would that be?

So, they can prepare as a level 1 spell for this Warpriest Bull's Str upon reaching level 4 losing the +1 enhancement from Sacred Weapon (better spell could be chosen I guess).

This helps their getting spells later since they have so few spells/ day and delayed access.
They need to choose carefully, as the choice will be permanent though.

Don't know what to call this archetype.


Quote:


Don't know what to call this archetype.

Oracle?

Shadow Lodge

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Ryan Freire wrote:
They're both heavy armor, martial weapon wielding divine warriors who can heal with a touch, have access to spells from their divine patron, and can enhance their weapons (and/or armor) with divine might. There's even an antipal archetype that lets you go LE. No, it seems like the real beef is there's no convenient way to get Cha to attack, damage, saves, and AC via CG paladin of desna.

So I was trying to stay out of this, but I just failed a will save.

I am getting really annoyed with this Shooting Star nonsense, because I've been arguing for a non-LG Cha-based holy warrior for years. It's my biggest issue with the warpriest. I don't really care whether they have full BAB, but a Wis-based character is thematically very different from a Cha-based one. It changes what skills the character is likely to be good at and affects how I see a character's personality. I re-built a Paladin character as an Inquisitor a while back largely because I didn't see them as a Charisma-based character. Almost a year before Shooting Star came out I was arguing that a bloodrager/oracle made a better paladin substitute than a warpriest, because it's charisma-based.

But now we can't have a Cha-based CG holy warrior because this one Cha-based fighting style would make Desnans OP?

High Cha, low Wis holy warriors devoted to Cayden can't exist because DESNA?


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I'm with you weirdo. I've been looking for that non-LG paladin WAY before desna invented a cha based combat style.

And I should point out that using that combat style would mean a drop in smite to hit [cha to hit doesn't stack], doesn't get 2 handed damage. And it's NOT like a paladin can drop str too much is they are being the heavy armor/shield holy warriors, so subbing in cha isn't much of a boost unless you can figure out a way to get substantially higher in cha vs str. At best, it's be a nice feat and not the OMG overpowered some make it out to be. It's MUCH more impressive on an oracle that can actually afford to dump everything into cha.*

* Of course, all this might be because of a paladin dip. I just don't see a paladin 2/something else 18 as a real paladin but a part time holt warrior.


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Going to third weirdo's comment

people can't come up with a reasonable argument for why its fine that Paladin's are only of one alignment so suggest that everyone who wants multi alignment paladins simply want Desna's shooting star and that this is wrongbadfun.

Its not true at all its just a cop out.

Liberty's Edge

Human rogues trying to do a halfling's job and failing miserably are an embarrassment to the profession.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Going to third weirdo's comment

people can't come up with a reasonable argument for why its fine that Paladin's are only of one alignment so suggest that everyone who wants multi alignment paladins simply want Desna's shooting star and that this is wrongbadfun.

Its not true at all its just a cop out.

No the cop-out is when the only arguments about why warpriest doesn't "fit the bill" for holy warrior for other alignments are that fervor isn't as good as layhands and they aren't full BAB.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Human rogues trying to do a halfling's job and failing miserably are an embarrassment to the profession.

Halflings? The poor dears don't even have low light vision, let alone darkvision. No, halflings aren't the best rogues despite Bilbo's history.


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Ryan Freire wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Going to third weirdo's comment

people can't come up with a reasonable argument for why its fine that Paladin's are only of one alignment so suggest that everyone who wants multi alignment paladins simply want Desna's shooting star and that this is wrongbadfun.

Its not true at all its just a cop out.

No the cop-out is when the only arguments about why warpriest doesn't "fit the bill" for holy warrior for other alignments are that fervor isn't as good as layhands and they aren't full BAB.

Lol there is another thread for this go there if you want to talk about it, let's not derail this one but read it first, because you clearly don't understand the opposing argument.


Jynnjun wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
Human rogues trying to do a halfling's job and failing miserably are an embarrassment to the profession.
Halflings? The poor dears don't even have low light vision, let alone darkvision. No, halflings aren't the best rogues despite Bilbo's history.

GOBBO STAB THE BEST


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Jynnjun wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
Human rogues trying to do a halfling's job and failing miserably are an embarrassment to the profession.
Halflings? The poor dears don't even have low light vision, let alone darkvision. No, halflings aren't the best rogues despite Bilbo's history.

The missing darkvision is an issue, but otherwise halflings are quite focused on making up some of a rogue's weaknesses (AB, AC, saves) and improving some of their strengths (Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth).

Ideas how to deal with missing darkvision:

Spoiler:
300g darkvision potion, lasts 3 hours
5,000g permanency on darkvision, needs CL 10 though (and can be dispelled)
12,000g Goggles of Night (60 feet)
14,900g Belt of Dwarvenkind (60 feet, various other bonuses including +2 Con, only if you don't mind the occupied belt slot)
20,000g Darkland Goggles (120 feet, and +4 Perception)

Or hope for a wizard / alchemist in the party who can cast it on you. After all, you are risking your b*** for them when scouting, right?

As long as you don't sneak around, a good old light spell suffices anyway.


Cavall wrote:
Quote:


Don't know what to call this archetype.
Oracle?

Oracle archetype Warpriest would get confusing, but sure.

It stacks with most other archetypes because it only modifies Sacred Weapon.

Silver Crusade

Lady-J wrote:
1 level dip into every caster

With all physical stats and all metals dumped, and only skill based feats, for non-class skills that you take no ranks in.


I saw the other complaint for Sacred Fist was their lack of utility beyond doing damage. Rather than spike damage, I built in some knowledge skill utility with Amateur Investigator and the Studied Combatant line to round out the character.
CG Good/Healing
str 12 +4enhance=16
dex 14
con 10
int 14 +4enhance=18
wis 16 +2race+2lvl+4enhance=24
cha 8
Class feats
1Warpriest 1- IUS*, amateur investigator, dodge
2Warpriest 2
3Warpriest 3- channel smite
4Warpriest 4
5Warpriest 5- guided hand
6Warpriest 6
7Warpriest 7- jabbing style, piranha strike
8Warpriest 8
9Warpriest 9- studied combatant
10Warpriest 10-mobility
11Warpriest 11-imp studied combatant

dam bonus: 4sc+3str+4df+6p.strike+1trait+wpn
dam dice:3d6UA(L.+robes),2d6vicious,1d6mercy,1d6good, (1d6 jabb after 1st hit)
tohit: bab8,+4sc,+4df,+7wis-3pstrike,-2flurry,+wpn

Damage total: 7d6(8d6after 1st hit)+18+wpn
ToHit total: 22+,22+,22+,17+17


Bladelock wrote:
I saw the other complaint for Sacred Fist was their lack of utility beyond doing damage. Rather than spike damage, I built in some knowledge skill utility with Amateur Investigator and the Studied Combatant line to round out the character.

With virtue of their spells they are more useful out of combat than a fighter is.

like it has it's weak points, but it's not a bad class by really any means. A fighter is worse off in most of the same ways that the WP is and isn't really better at the stuff they both are good at.

So if anything you should go fighter for this. And as long as having a moderate bonus in a few knowledge skills suffices for OOC utility you're not going to have problems makes a character "useful"

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Seen a lot of hate on thrown weapon users. And I get it, but I have found a build that isn't bad. Sliding Axe Toss, Startoss Style and Greater Trip with Relentless Shot. Dip into Far-Strike Monk and Divine Hunter Paladin to get the extra bonus feats and you will be online and fully operational by 8 (in that you can start looking for "fun" feats).

The least optimal options are certain prestige classes that, while flavorful, are clearly intended for one-shot NPCs. Lion Blade comes to mind: While the surprise attack and bardic music progression stacking with all prior classes that offer bardic music is nice...honestly, its just not that good of a class, unless your game uses crowds.


Weirdo wrote:
High Cha, low Wis holy warriors devoted to Cayden can't exist because DESNA?

Having a bit of text that says something to the effect of "Desna does not accept [Paladin analogues] her reasons are mysterious and her own" would go a long way I suspect.


The shield champion brawler makes for a passable thrower

Silver Crusade

As I said upthread, thrown weapon builds really aren't that bad any more. The Weapon Master's Handbook added a ton of stuff to help them out, and they were viable even before that.

They may have been among the least viable builds a few years ago, but they're doing quite well recently.


KitsuneWarlock wrote:
Seen a lot of hate on thrown weapon users. And I get it, but I have found a build that isn't bad. Sliding Axe Toss, Startoss Style and Greater Trip with Relentless Shot. Dip into Far-Strike Monk and Divine Hunter Paladin to get the extra bonus feats and you will be online and fully operational by 8 (in that you can start looking for "fun" feats).

Thrown weapons now have a way to hit as if a seige weapon.

That negates a lot of counters to ranged.

Thrown is cool again.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Ah, well, flavorful prestige classes are still really subpar. Especially the older, martial and skill based prestige classes like Duelist, Lion Blade and Sleepless Detective. Even the updated ones.

Shadow Lodge

Cavall wrote:
KitsuneWarlock wrote:
Seen a lot of hate on thrown weapon users. And I get it, but I have found a build that isn't bad. Sliding Axe Toss, Startoss Style and Greater Trip with Relentless Shot. Dip into Far-Strike Monk and Divine Hunter Paladin to get the extra bonus feats and you will be online and fully operational by 8 (in that you can start looking for "fun" feats).

Thrown weapons now have a way to hit as if a seige weapon.

That negates a lot of counters to ranged.

Thrown is cool again.

Link? That sounds awesome.

Silver Crusade

KitsuneWarlock wrote:
Ah, well, flavorful prestige classes are still really subpar. Especially the older, martial and skill based prestige classes like Duelist, Lion Blade and Sleepless Detective. Even the updated ones.

Yup. I really want the Halfling Opportunist to be useful, because it's so flavorful. But making the signature class ability a CMB check on a race that gets penalties to CMB from size and strength penalties, and it's a 3/4 BAB class, was really poor planning. It just never really works.

And every prestige class I've looked at has had some other similar problems. Since my Opportunist, I've kind of given up on prestige classes altogether. I never even look at them or consider taking them any more.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Bladelock wrote:
I saw the other complaint for Sacred Fist was their lack of utility beyond doing damage. Rather than spike damage, I built in some knowledge skill utility with Amateur Investigator and the Studied Combatant line to round out the character.

With virtue of their spells they are more useful out of combat than a fighter is.

like it has it's weak points, but it's not a bad class by really any means. A fighter is worse off in most of the same ways that the WP is and isn't really better at the stuff they both are good at.

So if anything you should go fighter for this. And as long as having a moderate bonus in a few knowledge skills suffices for OOC utility you're not going to have problems makes a character "useful"

A higher int and wis cover a lot of OOC utility not handled by the party face. AI just gives a bit of an assist to cover more bases. No class can do everything. My comments are just to say that War Priest is too good to be on this list.

Sacred Fist gets a bad name solely because of the nerf to flurry, which originally was insanely good. The archetype is still strong.


I had an Arcanist(Spell Specialist archetype)/Dragon Disciple that did really well. Built him for self-buffing, transforming melee combat.

Only thing he had a problem fighting was a Ravener....


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Quote:
Quote:

Thrown weapons now have a way to hit as if a seige weapon.

That negates a lot of counters to ranged.

Thrown is cool again.

Link? That sounds awesome.

Of course, friend. link!


Well that's just pricey, isn't it? Still useful, but a hard thing to decide you wanna buy unless wind effects come up often.


It's pricey because it does 3 things. Unless you're a Ki user you'll only use 2 of them.

However considering the alternatives when faced with gust of wind I would say thats money well spent.

For Ki users you could drop a gust at your own feat and not care, giving you a defense they do not have. For that alone it's exceptional.


Sort of unfortunate that they are gloves, since two of the better thrown weapon characters (the Arsenal Chaplain warpriest and Mutation Warrior fighter) have weapon training and would prefer to wear different gloves once they can afford them.

What kind of action is it to change your gloves?


PossibleCabbage wrote:

Sort of unfortunate that they are gloves, since two of the better thrown weapon characters (the Arsenal Chaplain warpriest and Mutation Warrior fighter) have weapon training and would prefer to wear different gloves once they can afford them.

What kind of action is it to change your gloves?

Probably at least move to remove and move to put on and that assumes the new gloves are in hand.


I guess you could put Cyclonic on a Slingstaff instead. I think that would work (assuming that the slingstaff makes thrown weapon attacks b/c it is in the thrown fighter group.)

Dark Archive

Fighting with alchemical weapons - not Bombs, mind you, but stuff like Acid or fireworks. Sounds cool, looks cool, doesn't work too well. If someone could make a character who could effectively fight with fireworks that would be sweet.


LuniasM wrote:
Fighting with alchemical weapons - not Bombs, mind you, but stuff like Acid or fireworks. Sounds cool, looks cool, doesn't work too well. If someone could make a character who could effectively fight with fireworks that would be sweet.

The underground chemist rogue archetype works well for this, they get to add sneak attack and their int mod I think to them. Thus making them basically as good as a bomb from an alchemist.


LuniasM wrote:
Fighting with alchemical weapons - not Bombs, mind you, but stuff like Acid or fireworks. Sounds cool, looks cool, doesn't work too well. If someone could make a character who could effectively fight with fireworks that would be sweet.

I've thought about this, Slipslinger style lets you do this with alchemical splash weapons (liquid ice and the like) the problem is that your ammunition is *really* expensive, which is something you need to resolve somehow. Even with the appropriate crafting skills, you're still looking at like 20gp per attack.


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DrDeth wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
It makes it much harder for enemies to "geek the mage first",
I always wonder how they knew who the mage was. It is true, that some wear a big pointy red hat with "WIZZARD" on it in sequins, but they are the minority. ;-)

Now you're just being silly. All Wizards are absolutely required to wear big pointy hats, and Jiggy explains why

Jiggy wrote:

As for the cone-shaped hat, that one's a bit more complicated. See, the most dangerous thing for a wizard is to have your magic taken away, which generally comes in the form of an anti-magic field. Wizards need a way to protect against this. So what do you do?

You get a teepee (a cone-shaped tent) and cast shrink item on it. Refresh it every couple of days. Now you have a teepee that you can wear as a hat. Should you find that you've run afoul of an AMF, the spell on the teepee-hat will end, returning it to its natural size. This means that suddenly there's a full-size, open-bottomed tent above your head. Gravity does its thing, and now you're standing in a tent.

As a result, there is no longer any line of effect from the point-of-origin of the AMF to your wizardy self, meaning you're no longer affected. You can now teleport to safety. And make a new hat.

That is why wizards wear flowing robes and pointy hats.


LuniasM wrote:
Fighting with alchemical weapons - not Bombs, mind you, but stuff like Acid or fireworks. Sounds cool, looks cool, doesn't work too well. If someone could make a character who could effectively fight with fireworks that would be sweet

I think there's one firework which works as a melee touch attack and not a splash weapon. Rogues and ninjas should love it.


KitsuneWarlock wrote:
Ah, well, flavorful prestige classes are still really subpar. Especially the older, martial and skill based prestige classes like Duelist, Lion Blade and Sleepless Detective. Even the updated ones.

That's what bothers me to a small extent. Why not both flavor and crunch. Flavor alone cannot save a subpar class, archetype feats etc imo.


Fromper wrote:
KitsuneWarlock wrote:
Ah, well, flavorful prestige classes are still really subpar. Especially the older, martial and skill based prestige classes like Duelist, Lion Blade and Sleepless Detective. Even the updated ones.

Yup. I really want the Halfling Opportunist to be useful, because it's so flavorful. But making the signature class ability a CMB check on a race that gets penalties to CMB from size and strength penalties, and it's a 3/4 BAB class, was really poor planning. It just never really works.

And every prestige class I've looked at has had some other similar problems. Since my Opportunist, I've kind of given up on prestige classes altogether. I never even look at them or consider taking them any more.

Was this before or after Pathfinder Unchained (Rogue Unchained and Fractional Base Bonuses)? (Alternatively, anyone try it on a Slayer chassis instead of a Rogue chassis?) Also, the ccpstone ability doesn't depend upon CMB, and is pretty good (ALL your Attacks of Opportunity are Sneak Attacks -- combine with Combat Reflexes and Elven Branched Spear, the latter of which gives you +2 on your Attacks of Opportunity).


PossibleCabbage wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Fighting with alchemical weapons - not Bombs, mind you, but stuff like Acid or fireworks. Sounds cool, looks cool, doesn't work too well. If someone could make a character who could effectively fight with fireworks that would be sweet.
I've thought about this, Slipslinger style lets you do this with alchemical splash weapons (liquid ice and the like) the problem is that your ammunition is *really* expensive, which is something you need to resolve somehow. Even with the appropriate crafting skills, you're still looking at like 20gp per attack.

Full pouch + Focusing Flask is your friend. You end up with 3d6 damage touch energy attacks with saves based on your level. I paired this with a launching crossbow and Toxicant to add range and poison to that attacks. Throw in Concentrated Splash to bump that 3d6 up to x1.5 damage!

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