ERRATA - SLASHING GRACE - DERVISH DANCE


Rules Questions


Friends,

I would like to clarify on the feat "dervish dance" has some errata in relation to class "Magus"?. Some people claim that the errata of feat "slashing grace" should be applied to "dervish dance". Please advise if this is indeed the case.


First of all, I'm going to Flag this to be moved to the appropriate forums so you can get more views.

Secondly, as far as I am aware there is no Errata on the Dervish Dance feat. Unless your GM says otherwise, you should NOT apply that Slashing Grace errata to the Dervish Dance feat.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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Moved to Rules.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

There's no errata. It's a completely different feat. I heard of GMs houseruling that Slashing Grace works like Dervish Dance since the Slashing Grace is a horrifically designed feat both pre- and post-errata.


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Cyrad wrote:
There's no errata. It's a completely different feat. I heard of GMs houseruling that Slashing Grace works like Dervish Dance since the Slashing Grace is a horrifically designed feat both pre- and post-errata.

If house rules are on the table, I always recommend replacing all those feats with Deadly Agility. Simple, effective, and its existence has since proven the Dex doomsayers wrong.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Deadly Agility is a 3rd party feat. A lot of 3rd party feats break various understood limits to feats.


James Risner wrote:

Deadly Agility is a 3rd party feat. A lot of 3rd party feats break various understood limits to feats.

I have yet to see that feat be an issue. I mean honestly while it might raise average damage a few points over the course of the career i still have never understood the dex to damage equals overpowered thought line.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Quote:
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

There is always long threads debating whether or not using a spell is using a weapon in the offhand.

Quote:
the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one handed melee weapon in the other hand

The debate is between whether or not magus spell combat uses the offhand like using TWF would use the offhand.

None of this has anything to do with slashing grace or it’s errata.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Talonhawke wrote:
James Risner wrote:

Deadly Agility is a 3rd party feat. A lot of 3rd party feats break various understood limits to feats.

I have yet to see that feat be an issue. I mean honestly while it might raise average damage a few points over the course of the career i still have never understood the dex to damage equals overpowered thought line.

A lot of things we enjoy, we can’t understand why others think they are so overpowered. We could be wrong or they could be wrong. But they still have the emotional reaction.


James Risner wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
James Risner wrote:

Deadly Agility is a 3rd party feat. A lot of 3rd party feats break various understood limits to feats.

I have yet to see that feat be an issue. I mean honestly while it might raise average damage a few points over the course of the career i still have never understood the dex to damage equals overpowered thought line.
A lot of things we enjoy, we can’t understand why others think they are so overpowered. We could be wrong or they could be wrong. But they still have the emotional reaction.

Well put.

The fear is always in making Dexterity "the super stat". Our group recently started using Deadly Agility (*and* we've even made Weapon Finesse a baseline combat option for finessable weapons per the World is Square Feat Tax variant), and for us, it's actually ended up fair and balanced.

We have a skald in the party and a handful of Str-users, so even though the Dex-based characters are loving it, it still costs a feat, and those characters are missing out on part of some really juicy buffs (going to end up being a +10 Str with Amplified Rage thanks to VMC Cavalier by the end.)

Different groups have different standards of optimization and fairness. I think making Deadly Agility an actual Paizo feat *does* cross a threshhold. Individual groups need to decide for themselves what's appropriate.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

On the note of the dex-to-damage being overpowered, it's perceived as such because dex applies to so much more than strength and it's easier to make a build with only one stat to apply to so many things. It's not for the damage so much as the added benefits having the dex would grant. Dex applies to;
* Acrobatics (highly useful in combat to avoid attacks).
* Reflex saves (ymmv but it's the save I've seen made the most).
* AC (because with a +10 dex mod that's also adding to your avoidance as well as damage for this feat/argument).
* Disable Device, Escape Artist, Stealth, and, arguably less useful, Sleight of Hand.
* Initiative (need I say more on that?).

One could make the argument that your dex bonus to AC is limited by your armor but there are easy ways around that. For example, using bracers of armor instead of armor; easily augmented armor (like mithral, darkleaf, or even simply a haramaki); using a buckler; relying solely on other sources of AC (rings, amulets, the normal progression items)... I don't wanna derail this thread, but I just want to make the point that there's some very valid reasons to consider why making a one-stat-for-everything build is considered OP.


off-topic:
All of which can be done with a small subset of weapons. most of which are already some of the best choices for dex to damage anyways. So opening it up to the rest of the finessable weapons is a problem how.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Which errata is being discussed? What did it change?

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Ravingdork, the FAQ on Skashing Grace is being question. Specifically how and if it applies to Detvish Dance.


I would imagine that Dervish Dance will get the same "no magus allowed" errata the next time that feat is reprinted (much like slashing grace survived until Ultimate Intrigue.)

If they don't bother to reprint Dervish Dance, it will probably stay the way it is because the PDT has more important things to do than to errata a feat in a 6 year old book in the campaign setting line.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I would imagine that Dervish Dance will get the same "no magus allowed" errata the next time that feat is reprinted (much like slashing grace survived until Ultimate Intrigue.)

If they don't bother to reprint Dervish Dance, it will probably stay the way it is because the PDT has more important things to do than to errata a feat in a 6 year old book in the campaign setting line.

Nah, it will probably get the Bladed Brush treatment and now require you to worship Sarenrae to use it.


Talonhawke wrote:
Nah, it will probably get the Bladed Brush treatment and now require you to worship Sarenrae to use it.

Could we please get clarification of how Bladed Brush works first?


To answer the OP's question, no Dervish Dance wasn't changed. Yes slashing grace was changed and Magi can't use it in conjunction with spell combat.

As a GM, I apply the restrictions of Slashing Grace to Dervish Dance anyways.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Is this in relation to keeping the "off hand" free?

It would seem that wielding the spell is the same as wielding a weapon with Spell Combat. Not sure where the confusion lies.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Risner wrote:
Ravingdork, the FAQ on Skashing Grace is being question. Specifically how and if it applies to Detvish Dance.

Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. What was the errata for Slashing Grace; what did it do (to Slashing Grace)?


This FAQ

Sovereign Court

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This is just people discovering errata from two years ago, and presenting it with such urgency that everyone with a guilty conscience thinks there's new errata :P


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's no wonder I can't remember the Slashing Grace errata. You guys are discussing a FAQ entry, not an erratum.

Sczarni

thaX wrote:
It would seem that wielding the spell is the same as wielding a weapon with Spell Combat.

That's the only way I can read it as well.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
It's no wonder I can't remember the Slashing Grace errata. You guys are discussing a FAQ entry, not an erratum.

In all fairness, the FAQ entry is a clarification of the errata.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The dervish dance feat is worded a little differently, too. It specifically states "carrying a weapon or shield," whereas slashing grace has an addendum "or any time another hand is otherwise occupied," which is much more restrictive. Dervish dance also forces you into scimitar, which is again more restrictive than slashing grace. It's not a given that it will get the same treatment.

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