you can always blow a feat on arcane armor training.
You don't actually need to worry about the dex until your Dex is in excess of 21. At that point, I'd probably take the Celestial Mail and make sure to ask your DM if you can buff it to +5. IF he doesn't let you advance it, just go with a mithril chain shirt unless you're doing arcane armor training.
==Aelryinth
spell failure isn't an issue, just proficiency. As I recall, celestial armor is light armor, it's written right into the description, so armor proficiency isn't an issue and neither is spell failure.
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Arcane Armor Training is an awful feat line. Eats up your swift action every turn you try to cast. Swift actions can be pretty valuable depending on who you are and what your doing.
Edit: with that much dex your in light armor and it shouldn't come up actually...
28 dex? You'll hit the dex cap on most everything. Mithril chain shirt is only a +6 on its own, so if you nab that you'll probably cap out and have 0 ACP . -2 ACP probably won't hurt that much if at all, so the celestial armor will probably work out when you nab that later on(that is, if you don't start with it)
I think when he says ACP he means arcane spell failure chance, which with kikko will still be 10% with mithral.
==Aelryinth
I think when he says ACP he means arcane spell failure chance, which with kikko will still be 10% with mithral.
==Aelryinth
Its light armor, he's a bard. He can cast in it.
kikko is actually medium armor. It's only treated as light armor for movement when mithral.
==Aelryinth
ACP is a negligible effect of the armor...skill checks are easy to do. He'll still take the arcane spell failure chance even if the ACP is 0.
==Aelryinth
kikko is actually medium armor. It's only treated as light armor for movement when mithral.
==Aelryinth
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
Says its one category lighter and treated as such, and it specifies ACP and proficiency as still being the previous category, but not movement speed or spell casting failure. It doesn't say "only affects movement" anywhere.
movement and other limitations.
Arcane spell casting is not a limitation.
it specifically says he's going to get -10% to arcane casting failure, that's it. It's not going to go away because he's proficient in casting in light armor...it's still considered medium for any proficiency purpose.
However, I see his point about the ACP now. THe penalty to ATTACK ROLLS is something you really want to avoid, and he doesn't want to blow a feat on proficiency to do it.
==Aelrynth
movement and other limitations.
Arcane spell casting is not a limitation.
it specifically says he's going to get -10% to arcane casting failure, that's it. It's not going to go away because he's proficient in casting in light armor...it's still considered medium for any proficiency purpose.
To you maybe, however...
Unless there's been clarification, it's debatable
Personally, I disagree with you. No point in debating.
"This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor."
Pretty clear right there. Proficient in casting arcane spells in light armor isn't going to apply to medium.
==Aelryinth
"This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor."
Pretty clear right there. Proficient in casting arcane spells in light armor isn't going to apply to medium.
==Aelryinth
To you, and your not authority. I just said I didn't want to debate it and you then say your actually correct and there is no questioning it. I've always played it as though it made it lighter for spell casting, and its up to the GM of the OP anyway.
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Yeah, don't forget the gold differences. Nothing is going to beat that celestial armor. I'd wear the mithral shirt at first if I were. Cost about 3000 less gold and at early levels that's pretty important I think. You can just put a +2 on it for about the price of upgrading to the kikko, and you'll eventually replace the kikko.
"This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor."
Pretty clear right there. Proficient in casting arcane spells in light armor isn't going to apply to medium.
==Aelryinth
He doesn't have proficiency in casting spells in light armor. He has light armor proficiency.
He has the ability to cast spells in light armor.
Mithril medium armor is considered light armor for everything BUT proficiency.(ACP is very relevant if you're not proficient with the armor, because then it takes off a wider variety of skills and attack rolls)
Proficiency from mithral kikko armor is pretty irrelevant, so it works.
If you accept it's light armor and not mithral medium armor, no spell failure, correct.
==Aelryinth
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Here's a link Its not the most common enchant, but its legal in PFS and its actually very nice, if a little expensive at lower levels.
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You know, the -2 ACP isn't as bad as I thought. My Dex is super high anyway, and I can use the innate Fly to overcome some of the Str checks.
I'm having trouble finding the Comfort enchantment. Link?
Armor ointment is an an alchemical item that reduces ACP by 1 for 8 hours, at 30 GP a pop.
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Actually in the Danish pathfinder society we are currently having this talk. I can not see how mithril aids in kikko armor. Rules stats that mithril should be primary component. In kikko armor primary component is cloth not metal. Yes it has metal buti it isn't the primary component. I know lots will hate that because it's a superb and cheap way to get rid of the armor problems with medium armor. But folk it's made of cloth hence do not gain the effect of mithril
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If you have already established that Celestial is a template that you can apply to any armor, why not toss it on a breastplate, which has a reduced ACP compared to chain. This would bring the ACP down to -1 and also bump the Dex to AC by one. Then you can stack a trait on that such as Armor Expert or Armor Mastery which reduces all ACP by 1 to get ACP of 0. Note that this would allow you to wear such armor even lacking the proficiency without taking a penalty to attacks or checks, or rather you take the penalty but it is zero.
Actually in the Danish pathfinder society we are currently having this talk. I can not see how mithril aids in kikko armor. Rules stats that mithril should be primary component. In kikko armor primary component is cloth not metal. Yes it has metal buti it isn't the primary component. I know lots will hate that because it's a superb and cheap way to get rid of the armor problems with medium armor. But folk it's made of cloth hence do not gain the effect of mithril
Kikko armor consists of hexagonal plates made from iron and sewn to cloth. The plates may be hidden by a layer of cloth or left exposed.
Kikko Armor is made of metal. It wouldn't be very protective if it wasn't. Even Silken Ceremonial Armor has some metal, thought a lot less.
In my games, since Celestial Chain and Plate do not state what they are made of, I rule theat they are made of iron/steel that is made in a way that only Celestials and those that are trained by them know how to make. They use iron/steel because other metals are so expensive comparatively speaking. Mithril and Glassteel could both used for any Celestial armor and reduce the ACP by 2, the ASF by 10% and the weight by 1/2, and for Glassteel have a hardness of 20, and add DR to the armor like regular Adamantine. Glassteel also grants a bonus to Perception checks to see if the person is wearing armor as it is clear as glass...
This is only my ruling as a DM. I don't remember what material Glassteel comes from, but it's been my players favorite since I introduced it to them, even though it has a very exorbitant cost lol
There are two traits that reduce your ACP by one. Take both and you have no problem. Armor Expert (combat) and Sargavan Guard (region).
Trait bonuses do not stack. Make sure to read them both. With luck one will be untyped. . . not likely though
Where is there a trait bonus in those? All I see are reduction in penalties and that isn't a type or a bonus.
bracers of armor? just sayin.
bracers of armor? just sayin.
The difference is 5 AC and fly 1/day for the same price. The armor is just plain better.