Speeding up Crafting


Rules Questions


Let's say, after rolling and adding modifiers, you get a total of 35 for a DC 20 item. For a week's worth of progress, you have done:
35 x 20 = 700sp of work, or 100sp/day (I'm not certain if it's 5 days of work or 7 days, but let's just assume 7).

Now, for the same roll and DC, what if you have the following:
Level 5 Craft unlock (5 Ranks: When determining your weekly progress, double the result of your Craft check before multiplying the result by the item’s DC.)
Mythic Craft (When you use the Craft skill to create an item, you double the progress each check provides.)
An assistant with Cooperative Crafting (your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day)
and Double Time (The vigilante needs to spend only 6 hours each day for mundane uses of the Craft or Profession skill, rather than 8 hours. If he has the social grace social talent, he needs to spend only 4 hours for any skill he’s chosen with social grace.)

So,
Craft unlock: (35x2) x 20 (double the result before multiplying the item's DC) = 1400sp/week, 200sp/day

Mythic Craft: ((35x2) x 20)x2 (double the progress each check provides) = 2800sp/week, 400sp/day

Cooperative Crafting: (((((35x2) x 20)x2)/7)/10)x2 (double the GP value of items that can be crafted each day) 560gp/week, 80gp/day

Is that correct? I know that typically you increase the multiplier when multiple multipliers occur (such as Spirited Charge + Critical Hit), but since each one specifies doubling a different thing (double the result before DC, double the progress the check provides, double the GP value of items that can be crafted each day), does that make a difference? Or is it:
((35x4) x 20) = 2800sp/week, 400sp/day

When you then add in Double Time (assuming social grace), are you limited to 4 hours of work each day, or can you do 8 hours of that? If so, how does that then work? Is it two 4 hour sessions of the first example (resulting in 1120gp/week, 160gp/day) or the second example (5600sp/week, 800sp/day), or a continuation of the second example ((35x5) x 20) = 3500sp/week, 500sp/day?


If you can hit 35 on a DC 20 the best thing to do is "push" that items crafting time. Jumping the DC up and inflating the result as per base crafting rules.

"Accelerated Crafting You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check."

This results in a 350 sp difference in the result of the roll. Essentially half again the result for not doing it.


And it's 7 for daily. Not 5. It's days in a week not days in a work week.


Cavall wrote:

If you can hit 35 on a DC 20 the best thing to do is "push" that items crafting time. Jumping the DC up and inflating the result as per base crafting rules.

"Accelerated Crafting You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check."

This results in a 350 sp difference in the result of the roll. Essentially half again the result for not doing it.

I know about increasing the DC, I wanted to leave that out because that doesn't matter for the question. Basically, with the numbers I provided, you could still increase it by 10 and the question is still valid.

Thanks for pointing that out, tho. I didn't know about that bit until relatively recently :)


x2+x2+x2=x4


toastedamphibian wrote:
x2+x2+x2=x4

Just so I'm clear, the fact that it says different things are being doubled (result before DC, total progress each day, etc.) is fluff since mechanically it's just the resultxdcx2 in each instance?

What about Double Time? Since you can craft for 8 hours each day and double time is your result in 4 hours, does that make a difference? Or is the fact that you are doing 8 hours of work in 4 hours mean you can't do any more work that day? In that case, it wouldn't make sense to me to use the method you mentioned, since you are doing two days worth of work in a single day.


i would think that the 8 hour cap on crafting wouldn't get reduced to 4, just because you had the double time & social grace talents.

so you would do two days of work in 1 day each 4 hour block of time being its own craft roll. As such, the multiplier issue is irrelevant (at least for this bot of the puzzle), as you are not LITERALLY Doubling your work (Rather, you are just doing twice as much work, on average).

The rules lawyer in me wants to say that all those x2 effects actually stack, rather than simply increase the multiplier by +1, since each thing is multiplying a different thing.... BUT i think, from a balance perspective, you should probably assume that the intent is for you to just have two (2): four hour crafting sessions that each yield 4x the amount of crafting that one could typically do in that time period.


I would agree that, yes, since it's doubling different things that are multiplied together or it's multiplying the final product, your initial interpretation that works out to an 8 times multiplier should be correct.

Evaluating the final effect, it feels like it significantly devalues the hoops that the player jumped through to have them use additive multiplication, and ultimately it's crafting so it's not going to break the bloody game.

As for Double Time + Social Grace, I believe that's one of those gray areas where the GM has to decide what the rules actually are if you can get two blocks of mundane crafting in one day by shortening the time to 4 hours so you can fit two of them in the ordinary hard cap of 8 hours of crafting.

Certainly I'd be inclined to rule in favor of that, since being able to have two 4-hour blocks of crafting is baked into the Magic Item Crafting system.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Multiplying CRB, p.12 wrote:

Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than

one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied
by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single
multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its
value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to
apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.

The rule about how multipliers don't "stack" and instead add together only talks about multipliers to rolls.

Looking at the four abilities talked about, only the Craft Skill Unlock actually multiplies the roll made. Mythic Craft doubles the total progress made and Cooperative crafting doubles the gp amount that can be crafted each day. So, I think your original math (80gp/day for your example) is correct on how those three abilities interact.

Whether or not you can perform 2 4-hour shifts of crafting in one day isn't really talked about in the rules. The idea of the ability is to disguise how much the vigilante is actually working so that it looks like a full 8 hours of work were done in only 4, deflecting suspicion that Bob the candle-maker is actually the masked hero/villain because he isn't getting as much work done as he used to.


Assuming your GM lets you double up the crafting time because of Double-Time, you're doing it at x3, not x4 anyway. The roll is for progress. You are rolling your modifier for progress. Rolling to determine progress made. These are all the same thing: the result falls under the multiplier rule inherent in Pathfinder, RAW.

Please read again - Cooperative Crafting: It's a magic item creation feat that allows you to make 2000gp worth of magic items in one day, instead of 1000gp worth of magic items.

"your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day"

It is an item creation feat meant to modify magic item creation, meaning you can crank out one +1 longsword per day instead of one per two days.

I'm much more concerned with 15rank skill unlock.
Why am I suddenly so much less effective?

15 ranks + 3 modifier + 3 class skill + 1 trait + 4 social grace +5 crafter's fortune and suddenly I'm rolling a whopping +31, or a 41 by taking ten.

If I increase the DC of a falchion (DC15) twice to DC 35 I make 205sp a day. Or, using the skill unlock, I make 41sp a day. Is no one else concerned by this shocking disparity? The old way was literally five times faster.


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