Aegis - An Arcane Paladin (Homebrew Class)


Homebrew and House Rules

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

For such a long time we've never had a class that filled the niche of the "tank"; the walking levee that bears the weight and the brunt of the damage for his comrades. Now you may ask, "But mister, aren't there a multitude of ways to build a player character that can fill that role with high AC, or huge amounts of hit points?" I would answer that question with a tentative "Yes, but..."

You see, we have the paladin: generally heavy armored with some solid stopping power and a couple always on buffs for her buddies. They are also weighted down by mount and healing abilities (and not to mention the whole alignment thing). There's also the barbarian: Con bonuses and extra hit points, along with some DR eventually, but they are of course more focused on hitting as hard as they can, rather than taking hits.
Both of these are obviously archetypal and very powerful in their own right; I'm not here to rag on two classically killer classes.

To solve this, I went through a few different iterations. The first was a hybrid between the sorcerer and the fighter that tried to emulate the magus but focused on defense instead of offense. The second was a completely custom class that ended up feeling more like a 4th edition base class than Pathfinder. Both of those versions got scrapped. What I've now come to (and currently have one of my players playtesting in my current campaign) is something I like to call the Aegis. It could verge on an alternate class for the magus since it uses a modified arcane pool as well as arcana abilities, but it's not quite similar enough to constitute calling it an "alternate" class. In my opinion, it feels more like an arcane paladin.
Anyways, enough talk. I've rambled on for long enough.

Here's a link to the pdf:
Aegis

Let me know what you think. Suggestions and criticism are welcome!

In case anyone was wondering, I use this site to make the nice looking pdf's. It's super useful!


I'm not great with class design (at least not with Pathfinder class design) but I really love the concept and I will be watching this thread closely.

TLDR; dot

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You don't have to be an expert to give suggestions! I'm just looking for some constructive criticism so I can balance this.

Any help is appreciated!


Class Skills: no Perception? How is the aegis "unmatched in her abilities to stand vigilant" without Perception as a class skill? Particularly since Wisdom is not likely to be a key stat for this class.

I would remove Survival from the class list. This feels much more like an urban class than a wilderness one.

Arcane Pool: I would add the determination armor property to the list of properties that can be bestowed via this class feature. It seems thematically appropriate, as well as handy. If you think having an automatic Breath of Life spell built into your armor is too powerful for level 5, add it at level 9 (which is when clerics get access to the spell naturally).

Question: It says "An aegis can only enhance one armor or shield in this way at one time." Does that "or" mean she has to choose either armor or shield, and cannot have both at once, or does it mean that she has the option of choosing both but is not required to do so? It *could* be read either way.

Aegis: seems a tad much. It's very flavorful, but basically it's a free magic shield with an enhancement bonus that scales with level. It never goes away, or if it does the PC can get it back with a standard action. Why would I ever bother with a normal shield when I can have one for free?

Also, can it be dispelled?

I would suggest that Manifest Shield work something like this:

Quote:
As a standard action, the Aegis may spend 1 arcane point to manifest a shield. This functions as the spell Shield, except that it lasts one hour per Aegis level. In addition, starting at fifth level the shield counts as a normal shield for purposes of adding armor/shield properties using the Aegis' arcane pool.

I think that basically gets what you were going for. There's no arcane spell failure, because it's not a physical shield. It does improve over time, in terms of duration, but if the PC wants more raw AC or abilities out of it she has to spend arcane points to make it happen, which means she's spending depletable resources.

In terms of graphic design: watch out for orphaned headings! For example, the heading "Table 1-1: Aegis" appears at the bottom of the left column on page 1, when the table it identifies starts on the next column over. There should be a column break before the heading so that it is not separated from the content it's meant to label. There are several places where this happens in the document you linked.

Daunting Presence: The flavor is good, and I think it makes sense mechanically, largely because the penalty doesn't apply to attacks against the aegis herself.

 

 

Aegis Arcana feedback:

Aquatic Agility: I'd make this a swift action rather than immediate. Let 'em suffer the consequences of falling into water until they start their next turn.

Arcane Cloak: Creating a diversion to hide is a Bluff check, not a Stealth check. First you bluff, to create the diversion; then you can make the stealth check to actually hide. Suggestion: just eliminate "to create a diversion to hide" from this, and make it a flat Cha-to-Stealth bonus for one minute.

Arcane Redoubt: fine.

Arcane Redoubt, Greater: powerful, but also expensive. Looks okay to me.

Arcane Scent: whoa, weird. Although the ability is reasonably well articulated, it doesn't seem to fit the theme of the class well. The basic feel of the class is "incredibly durable melee combatant with a splash of arcane spellcasting". This feels much more like an Inquisitor kind of thing -- hunting down arcane types. It's a jarring mismatch, although I guess you could make a PC who's into the whole "I hate other people like me" kind of thing. Still, if it were up to me, I'd remove this and replace it with something else.

Arcane Ward: Okay. It may be easy to overload on the AC thing, though. You've already got two primary class abilities (Arcane Pool and Manifest Shield) that revolve around increasing AC. This is not over the top, yet, but there is life beyond AC.

Augment Physicality: So, swift action for your choice of: +1 attack and damage (STR); +1 AC, +1 reflex saves, +1 to a bunch of skills (DEX); or +1 hit point per aegis level. Not overpowered per se, but I raised my eyebrows at the inherent type. This means the PC can never benefit from a Wish spell or a tome that increases stats unless it happens to be +3 or higher, and if they do that, then their class feature is nerfed. I would change the type to circumstance, or else leave it untyped (same as a Barbarian's rage). Did you intend for this to be usable multiple times? As written, there's nothing to prevent me from using it on rounds 1, 2, and 3 to get +2 on all three ability scores. I might specify that you cannot have more than one ability score enhanced using this ability at one time.

Concentrate: fine.

Consume spells: fine.

Counter maneuver: see Counterattack below.

Defiant Defense: Okay, defiant is very thematic, but I'm starting to officially feel overloaded on ways to boost AC. I get the whole shining redoubt of unhittable-ness; but particularly at high levels, your enemies are going to spend more time targeting your saves than your regular AC. Or hitting you with energy based effects which ignore AC.

Dispelling Defense: good concept, suits the class. The mechanics need work, it's MUCH too expensive. A level 20 Aegis with 20 CHA will have 15 arcane pool points. Having a chance to dispel a single seventh level spell would thus consume roughly HALF of that Aegis' arcane pool. I'd suggest something like this:

Quote:
Dispelling Defense: As a swift action, the aegis can spend 1 point from her arcane pool to imbue her armor with anti-magical properties. The next creature to hit her in combat is subject to a targeted Dispel Magic, using her aegis level as her caster level. This ability lasts one minute, or until she is hit, whichever comes first. An aegis must be at least 9th level before selecting this arcana.

Disruptive: okay. I still think it's weird to have an defense-oriented arcane caster who hunts other arcane casters.

Divinatory Guard: that's pretty cool. I like it.

Enduring Arcana: okay, sure.

Familiar: check.

Flamboyant Arcana: Hrm, okay. Good to see some offense-oriented abilities in the mix.

Ghost Armor: fine.

Hasted Assault: fine.

Intuitive Protection: Why did you choose summoning as the trigger for this ability? I'd suggest making the trigger "When the aegis passes a will save against a charm or compulsion effect and successfully identifies the spell" etc. Triggering off mental effects means it's going to be very hard to mind-control the aegis -- but forcing them to pass a save first means the baddies get at least one shot at it.

Lingering Pain: I think you may need to change the class fluff. Between Arcane Scent, Disruptive, Lingering Pain, and Spellbreaker, you clearly meant this to be an anti-arcane class in addition to being a tank, and I did not get that from the description on page 1 at all.

Maneuver Mastery: why not let them use this to pick up "Improved Combat Maneuver X" feats without the pre-reqs? It would be mechanically simpler than adding a separate, scaling bonus.

Prescient Defense: TOO MUCH AC, RAWR. The reflex save bonus is good, I was wondering when you'd get to that.

Reflection: as with Dispelling Defense above, this is much too expensive. Perhaps 1 point to reflect spells up to 6th level, and 2 to reflect up to 9th?

Spell Blending: fine.

Spellbreaker: see note above on Lingering Pain.

Ward Ally: This is the first time I've seen anything in the class abilities reflecting the "as well as buttressing her allies" bit from the description. So it's fine. But I have to wonder -- if the class is really about bolstering allies, why is this the only thing in the class that has anything to do with that?

 

 

Counterattack: The "miss by five or more" mechanic seems clunky, and requires more arithmetic on every attack against the aegis. If there is one thing that Pathfinder does not need, it's more arithmetic. I'd suggest having them provoke on a nat 1. That would reduce the math, and also make it happen less often -- and consequently feel more special when it does.

On a related note, the Countermaneuver aegis arcana says "Whenever an aegis expends a point from her arcane pool to use her counterattack class feature". But Counterattack itself says nothing about arcane points. Were you trying to say that you need to spend an arcane point to activate Countermaneuver? Is this something that got changed in one place but not the other?

Also note that disarm, trip, and sunder attempts gain no benefit from countermaneuver, since they can be made in place of any melee attack anyway.

Spell casting: looks generally reasonable. I note that they don't get Detect Magic, which is kind of weird for this class. I suggest either giving them Detect Magic as an at-will spell-like ability at level 1, or else turning it into a first level spell for them.

Are you just taking spells from the sorcerer/wizard list at the same spell level as for sorcerer/wizards? Because the much slower spell progression on an aegis means that they're getting fairly low-level abilities much later in the game. In part that's fine; they're not a full caster, after all. But consider lowering the level on a few sorcerer/wizard spells so that the aegis gets them earlier. Example: if you're thinking of this class as anti-arcane, the spell Anti-Magic Field would be reasonable. It's level 6 for a sorcerer, and sorcerers gain access to it at level 12. If you made it available as a level 4 spell for an aegis, they would get it at level 13, slightly after a sorcerer but still in the same power range. Similarly, you could make Haste a 2nd level spell for an aegis, and they still wouldn't get it till level 7, two levels after wizards and one level after sorcerers.

Armor Training: generally fine, but you have a mismatch. In the proficiencies, it says aegis ignores arcane spell failure (ASF) in light and medium armor; in Armor Training, it says they ignore it in Heavy Armor, but it doesn't specify when that changes. It would probably be simpler just to ignore ASF altogether for this class.

Formidable Opponent: the fluff sentence "At 4th level, the aegis's proximity to her foes becomes so flustering it leaves them open more often to attacks" is awkwardly phrased. "Becomes so flustering" turns it into a passive construction that obscures the action of the sentence. Try: "At fourth level, the aegis' proximity flusters her opponents, leaving them open to attack." Switching it to an active verb -- "flusters" rather than "becomes flustering" -- makes what is happening much clearer.

The ability seems mechanically sound.

Bolstering Presence: Ah, here we have some buff-your-allies stuff. Makes sense.

Arcane Fortification: Too much! Absolutely too much. Consider: An aegis at level 7 can reasonably be expected to be wearing full plate. Right? And her Arcane Pool lets her give it an enhancement bonus of +2 at that level, for a total AC bonus of +11. Half of that, rounded down, is DR 5/-.

Compare to a standard fighter. Their Armor Mastery gets them DR 5/- at level nineteen, because DR that can't be beat is just that good. Handing it out at level 7 is much too much.

If you really want to go the DR route, consider keying it to the type of armor -- say, DR 1/- for wearing light armor, DR 2/- for medium, and DR 3/- for heavy.

Bonus Feats: fine. The list may be a tad restricted. Consider adding weapon focus and weapon specialization.

Rapid Manifest: fine.

Stalwart: so it's Evasion for the other two save types? Powerful, but I think I'm okay with it. It works well with the tough-as-nails theme of the class.

Greater Arcane Fortification: Consider making energy resistance the lesser, and DR the greater. That would be a more reasonable power curve, though I still think 1/2 of armor AC bonus as DR is awfully powerful. Also, I might make it a standard action to change energy types initially, then move, and finally swift at very high levels. Having the ability to get the perfect energy resistance fast is pretty good.

Vigilant: Okay, so it's Opportune Parry and Riposte, except it only works for allies, and she doesn't have to have Flamboyant Arcana first? Why is Flamboyant Arcana an optional feature, but Vigilant automatic? It just seems a bit muddled to me. Consider making both of these aegis arcana, or both class features.

Greater Daunting Presence: mechanically, as written, this does literally nothing. If you look at the wording of Daunting Presence, it specifies that the penalty applies to "any opponent she threatens." Then Greater Daunting Presence extends the range of to "5 ft. beyond her reach." But if an enemy is beyond her reach, then by definition the aegis does not threaten them, and therefore they are not eligible to suffer the effects of Daunting Presence. Since the first version is based on threatening in combat, the phrase "beyond her reach" automatically negates the second version.

I can see what you were trying for; it's a mechanic for keeping the attention of opponents on the aegis, not her allies. That's fine and well, but the wording needs to be redone.

Counterspell: No. At 17th level, wizards and sorcerers are playing rocket tag with 9th level spells. Countering just one of those would require expending SIX arcane points. A 17th level Aegis with 20 CHA will have 13 arcane pool points; spending half of her daily reserve to counter just one spell is a horribly inefficient use of her resources when she has so many other abilities that depend on them. As a low caster, she just doesn't play this game.

Impenetrable Guard (Ex): So ... her 19th level ability is to stand still, do nothing else, and hope an opponent provokes an attack of opportunity? Seems kinda underwhelming. If you want to make this work, consider reducing or eliminating the penalty for fighting defensively. But even then, a 19th level aegis should have an AC somewhere in the 40s, maybe the 50s, so another AC boost is not going to make a huge difference.

Indomitable Bastion: Let's look at this in pieces:

Immunity to crits and sneak attacks; fine, but you should specify that it applies only while wearing armor.

If a 20th level aegis isn't wearing +5 defiant full plate, I will eat my hat. That's 9 base + 5 enhance + 2 defiant = DR 16/-. That' officially too much, even this high -- fighters and barbarians get DR 5/- at 19. Having three times that one level later? Nope. If you adopt the suggestion that I gave above, where the DR is keyed to the armor type, just add +2 to each. So light armor would give you DR 3/-, medium DR 4/-, and heavy DR 5/-.

As for the spell resistance: Ironically, this is underpowered. SR 16 at level 20? You're fighting mythic liches and demigods at this point, who will very likely have full caster levels, and probably spell penetration and greater spell penetration to boot, meaning that they cannot fail to overcome your SR of 16 even on a natural 1.

If you make it 11 + the AC bonus, then you'd get SR 27. There are a few things that might fail that check at that level, but it's going to be pretty uncommon. A standard level 20 wizard with spell penetration, greater spell penetration, and an orange prism ioun stone for a +1 CL bonus is going to have a caster level check of 1d20+25, meaning they pass on a 3 or higher. If they only fail on a 1 or 2, then 90% of the time your spell resistance has no effect. Besides adding an additional roll and more math, I suppose.

Overall: I think you have a strong concept, though perhaps not all of it is reflected in the initial description. Some of the mechanics need adjustment. That said, it's an interesting class which could be fun to play.

Whew. That took ages.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I feel like the class lacks a strong central class feature to tie it all together. Daunting Presence feels so boring for an ability that's actually quite powerful. Daunting Presence should also be listed as a fear effect due to its flavor.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tinalles wrote:

Class Skills: no Perception? How is the aegis "unmatched in her abilities to stand vigilant" without Perception as a class skill? Particularly since Wisdom is not likely to be a key stat for this class.

I would remove Survival from the class list. This feels much more like an urban class than a wilderness one.

Arcane Pool: I would add the determination armor property to the list of properties that can be bestowed via this class feature. It seems thematically appropriate, as well as handy. If you think having an automatic Breath of Life spell built into your armor is too powerful for level 5, add it at level 9 (which is when clerics get access to the spell naturally).

Question: It says "An aegis can only enhance one armor or shield in this way at one time." Does that "or" mean she has to choose either armor or shield, and cannot have both at once, or does it mean that she has the option of choosing both but is not required to do so? It *could* be read either way.

Aegis: seems a tad much. It's very flavorful, but basically it's a free magic shield with an enhancement bonus that scales with level. It never goes away, or if it does the PC can get it back with a standard action. Why would I ever bother with a normal shield when I can have one for free?

Also, can it be dispelled?

I would suggest that Manifest Shield work something like this:

Quote:
As a standard action, the Aegis may spend 1 arcane point to manifest a shield. This functions as the spell Shield, except that it lasts one hour per Aegis level. In addition, starting at fifth level the shield counts as a normal shield for purposes of adding armor/shield properties using the Aegis' arcane pool.
I think that basically gets what you were going for. There's no arcane spell failure, because it's not a physical shield. It does improve over time, in terms of...

Woah! This is great! Thank you so much for taking the time. A lot of what you said has to do with some stuff that got ported over from passed versions and was overlooked. I will change those.

The rest is great. I will definitely work on this some more.
I'll let you now when it's updated and see what you think.

Once again I really appreciate all the time you spent!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Also, about the formatting: this website looks drastically different on different browsers and so a lot of the headings will get orphaned like that. On my Chrome it looks great. Perhaps I'll change the link to go to a saved pdf on my Google docs...


I would recommend using Google docs or something that way you keep the rights to the finished product

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Alright. I did a large amount of updates, taking everyone's ideas into account. I think this is far better and a little more focused.

Here's the new link to a pdf on my Google docs. (The old link will no longer function).

Aegis

Let me know what you guys think!


aegis is already a class i suggest naming it something else

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Lady-J wrote:
aegis is already a class i suggest naming it something else

If you're referring to Dreamscarred Press' 3rd-party class, I'm not too worried about it. I'm not selling this and it's nothing like their class in the first place. Not to mention that book is over 7 years old AND it's a psionic-based class. There's not really much room for stuff like that now that we have the official Occult classes.


as for feed back on the actual class abilities looks pretty good but i feel like there should either be a less powerful arcane lay on hands or a divine grace esk ability for int to saves as it doesn't really seem to have much drawn from the paladin, but i do see lots of abilities that are magus like but are armor focused instead of weapon focused which makes me think it should be more of a paladin/magus hybrid as opposed to just arcane paladin


I would suggest rename—there is already an aegis class.


Drejk wrote:
I would suggest rename—there is already an aegis class.

Check two posts up from your post, though personally I disagree that there isn't much room for stuff like that now, after the official Occult classes. The Dreamscarred Psionics Augmented: Occult line makes a point of differences and connections between Psychic and Psionic, after all - and one of their fairly recent releases was an aegis archetype, so over 7 years it may be, but it is still an actively supported and expanded class.


Defiant, Determined, and Ghost Touch: Why does the aegis need to spend an arcane pool point just to add these to the list of things that they can then spend more points on to get?

Ghost Touch and Defiant are +1 bonuses each, so if the arcana just adds them to the list of options permanently, they still need to pay a point each time they want to actually use one of them.

Determination can't use the same mechanic of 1 pool point = 1 enhancement bonus, because the property has a flat price of 30,000 gp. You'll need to assign a cost in pool points. Again, I'd probably have the arcana just add it permanently to the list of options, but make them pay points to actually activate it. Probably 1 or 2 points.

The revised counterattack looks good. I think it makes sense for that to scale.

In general, looking much better. I suggest play-testing it with a few of your friends. Put together a group of an aegis, a cleric, a wizard, and a rogue, and see how it fares in a couple of combat encounters at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. That should help you identify any imbalances or areas that need clarification.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
LordInsane wrote:
Drejk wrote:
I would suggest rename—there is already an aegis class.
Check two posts up from your post, though personally I disagree that there isn't much room for stuff like that now, after the official Occult classes. The Dreamscarred Psionics Augmented: Occult line makes a point of differences and connections between Psychic and Psionic, after all - and one of their fairly recent releases was an aegis archetype, so over 7 years it may be, but it is still an actively supported and expanded class.

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of homebrewed classes with the same name. It was originally called the Warden, but I found that a bit boring and didn't have any flare that I expect from an arcane class. Not to mention the fact that Aegis sounds similar to Magus (yes I know how magus is truly pronounced and they don't exactly match up, but it's close) and since this is essentially a sister class to the Magus it made sense.

Also, the last thing I want to do is name it some strange compound word or two word name like so many other mediocre homebrewed classes. A class name should be archetypal. It should evoke exactly what that class does right there in the name. Rogue. Ranger. Wizard. They all tell you exactly what they are straight out of the gate.
I'll work on it and see if I can come up with anything better, but no promises.


Aegis

OK, not a bad looking doc.

ALIGNMENT
The description of the class doesn't quite fit with the alignment of "any". Why would an evil aegis take punishment in place of his allies? Either restrict the alignment, or change the description and diversify the class abilities.

SKILLS
I was going to congratulate you on not including Perception, but it looks as though you have added since the fist time I looked. Its just a pet peeve of mine that seemingly 90% of homebrew classes include it in the skill list. I'm not certain why Use Magic Device is included, because this doesn't seem to be a very magical or tricksy class.

CLASS TABLE
Overall it looks pretty good, but I suggest including the spells per day on main table. Looks like you might have room for it, and it makes it more obvious that this is a 4-level casting class.

ARCANE POOL
I know you're probably set on the 1/2 level + mod sized pool, but I am going to try to pitch an idea to you: make it level + mod instead. It would require to you re-evaluate the cost of some of your abilities, but that could be a good thing. Some of your aegis arcana are obviously less powerful than others. You would have more flexibility in the potency of the what each one does, and the if desired the aegis can choose to use less powerful abilities in order to make them last longer.

MANIFEST SHIELD
It's a cool ability, but at 1st level the aegis can do one of two things. Either he can buff his normal shield or he can create a shield. Not much variety. One top of that, he can have a +4 shield bonus that lasts an hour, or he can improve his normal shield to +3 for one minute. There is really no comparison. This shield has no ACP, is a force effect, stops magic missiles, and requires no hands. I would change this one to an aegis arcana, and come up with a new 1st level ability that does not involve a shield.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:

Aegis

OK, not a bad looking doc.

ALIGNMENT
The description of the class doesn't quite fit with the alignment of "any". Why would an evil aegis take punishment in place of his allies? Either restrict the alignment, or change the description and diversify the class abilities.

SKILLS
I was going to congratulate you on not including Perception, but it looks as though you have added since the fist time I looked. Its just a pet peeve of mine that seemingly 90% of homebrew classes include it in the skill list. I'm not certain why Use Magic Device is included, because this doesn't seem to be a very magical or tricksy class.

CLASS TABLE
Overall it looks pretty good, but I suggest including the spells per day on main table. Looks like you might have room for it, and it makes it more obvious that this is a 4-level casting class.

ARCANE POOL
I know you're probably set on the 1/2 level + mod sized pool, but I am going to try to pitch an idea to you: make it level + mod instead. It would require to you re-evaluate the cost of some of your abilities, but that could be a good thing. Some of your aegis arcana are obviously less powerful than others. You would have more flexibility in the potency of the what each one does, and the if desired the aegis can choose to use less powerful abilities in order to make them last longer.

MANIFEST SHIELD
It's a cool ability, but at 1st level the aegis can do one of two things. Either he can buff his normal shield or he can create a shield. Not much variety. One top of that, he can have a +4 shield bonus that lasts an hour, or he can improve his normal shield to +3 for one minute. There is really no comparison. This shield has no ACP, is a force effect, stops magic missiles, and requires no hands. I would change this one to an aegis arcana, and come up with a new 1st level ability that does not involve a shield.

ive had plenty of evil characters that would take hits for allies, ive had several that viewed the party as some what of a family that they wanted to protect while others viewed the party as tools to be used and they would protect those tools so long as they remained useful

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Since this class isn't directly tied to religiosity, I'll leave it up to the player and their GM to figure out how an evil aegis would perform her duties. I totally get your concern though, but I'd rather leave those fluff choices up to the individual instead of writing it in mechanically. As designers, we should try and work the numbers and balance out as best we can while writing thematically interesting fluff that leaves all the room a player could want to make the class/character their own.
It's why I love the way the witch class's patron feature was written when compared to the 5e warlock. You don't need to tell the player "You have a pact with *enter specific entity here* and that means this...". Give them the main theme of this entity and allow the player and GM to fill in those details (or not! They don't even have to fill the details in if they want to).

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