If they continue to have innate spellcasting that is.
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They are neither. They have innate magic, while the game has no distinction of types of magic.
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i think the question is more of what spell list will they use as opposed to what is the source of their magic. They will not reference the PF lists so if you have a dragon you either list its spells and leave it at that or say they cast as a level X in class Y which would lock them into a class's list. It could be that they just cast as level X and can freely choose spells from any list too though.
The Necrovite stat block doesn't reference any spell list, instead simply listing several spells they can cast.
Hope this helps.
It does give some clue. I suppose if they don't appear in the Alien Archive you could just give them free reign of both spell lists. Dragons with full healing capability, sounds formidable.
Suppose I was asking for that. To clarify, do dragons typically use the technomancer spell list, or the mystic spell list? Or does it vary by subspecies?
Neat. My curiosity has been sated, for now.
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Necrovites are said to have both technomancer and mystic spells in the First Contact blog post so I imagine "monsters" aren't restricted to class spell lists.
I know I willjust use PF Sorcerer/Wizard list (with deviations based on theme and the addition of some spells depending on what changes there are) to represent Dragons being primal powerhouses.
Considering that dragons can live for a very long time, and that back on Old Golarion they had access to 9th level magic, there is a good chance that 7th-9th level magic is still in the game in some form.
I know I willjust use PF Sorcerer/Wizard list (with deviations based on theme and the addition of some spells depending on what changes there are) to represent Dragons being primal powerhouses.
That would probably be seriously unbalanced.
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That would probably be seriously unbalanced.
Considering we're meant to be allowed to use PF monsters in Starfinder I'm not sure how it would be unbalanced...?
On a tangentially related subject, are Outer Dragons going to be detailed more in Starfinder? I thought they were a cool idea, but they were always little too far removed from Golarion to receive much detail in Pathfinder.
On a tangentially related subject, are Outer Dragons going to be detailed more in Starfinder? I thought they were a cool idea, but they were always little too far removed from Golarion to receive much detail in Pathfinder.
I sure hope so.
Based on:
It varies, potentially by each individual dragon.
It sounds like dragons aren't grouped like they were previously and are instead more generic "make your own unique dragon" rather than giving stats on the already existing dragons.
That would probably be seriously unbalanced.Considering we're meant to be allowed to use PF monsters in Starfinder I'm not sure how it would be unbalanced...?
You're supposed to actually convert the monsters, not just drop them in.
The massive number of spells compared to a normal SF monster, combined with how more powerful those spells are (though some SF spells seem stronger than their PF counterparts), combined with access to 7th-9th level spells would be overpowered compared to normal SF enemies.
You're supposed to actually convert the monsters, not just drop them in.
The massive number of spells compared to a normal SF monster, combined with how more powerful those spells are (though some SF spells seem stronger than their PF counterparts), combined with access to 7th-9th level spells would be overpowered compared to normal SF enemies.
Considering how many monsters have high level spells as either casting or SLA's, that sounds less like convert and more like "Make a new creature which vaguely resembles a creature from PF".
Considering how many monsters have 9th level spells as either casting or SLA's, that sounds less like convert and more like "Make a new creature which vaguely resembles a creature from PF".You're supposed to actually convert the monsters, not just drop them in.
The massive number of spells compared to a normal SF monster, combined with how more powerful those spells are (though some SF spells seem stronger than their PF counterparts), combined with access to 7th-9th level spells would be overpowered compared to normal SF enemies.
Check out the ancient blue dragon from the unchained simple monster creation rules. That's what you should expect from Starfinder dragons.
Check out the ancient blue dragon from the unchained simple monster creation rules. That's what you should expect from Starfinder dragons.
That's disappointing. I'll probably have to skip on SF if that's the style of their monster rules.
I'm sure that style will be a plus to some of the fanbase though.
I think it is a bit more complex but the damage from unchained monster creation makes more sense in sf context then in pf context... (seriously, that damage was ridiculus)
I agree about the damage but yes, that's how monsters are built in SF, they use a modified version of the simple monster creation rules, using the same Combatant/Expert/Spellcaster array system.
Besides having different class grafts, some noticeable differences are:
1. Monsters no longer only get 3 ability score modifiers, they can get up to 5.
2. Damage is now die/dice + Monster's CR (+ STR for melee [or DEX for operative melee weapons]) for all of a monster's attacks.
3. Some creatures have only Master skills and no Good skills.
4. Spellcasters now SEEM to get slots per day for individual spell levels, as the Necrovite can cast three 5th-level spells per day and four 4th-level spells per day. And cast its 3rd level spells at-will.
I also noticed that diseases and poisons use unchained rules with progression tracks.
Yeah that sounds far too 5e-style "streamlined to the point of feeling game-y" for me.
Yeah that sounds far too 5e-style "streamlined to the point of feeling game-y" for me.
It's nothing like 5e's system if you ask me. It's almost impossible for me to make a monster in 5e using their rules for calculating CR. While simple monster creation rules are amazingly easy and time saving (at least imo).
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Well it sounds somewhat better then the unchained monsters even if its somewhat streamlined
Since its build up from the start there should be less odd values and therefore you can easier create every kind of alien/monster you want which still fits the parameters, which works well with the opportunity to visit many yet unknown worlds
I didnt like the unchained monster creation primary because there were so many rather odd values that didnt quite fit, so i just went back to the 6 bestiaries and building humanoid enemies for encounters
I just homebrewed the damage values to be appropriate for size and str. And also tend to give my monsters a full set of modifiers. Taking the modifiers for their CR and those from a cr 3 lower and distributing all 6. If a monster is particularly dumb i give it a negative modifier that feels appropriate. I also give particularly powerful creatures more 3/day spells and only make cr 1 spells at-Will.
I made that once too but i soon dropped back to the comfort of dozens of premade monsters and a little tool that can advance monstery with simple templates and hit dice if i need them anyway
I require.... very non standard monsters usually.
Now I am kind of curious
Half-fiend orc werelocust?
That would be just two templates added to an orc...kind of 'boring'
still an intersting concept...but well...
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That would be just two templates added to an orc...kind of 'boring'
still an intersting concept...but well...
I'm a template addict. I have a problem.
It's nothing like 5e's system if you ask me. It's almost impossible for me to make a monster in 5e using their rules for calculating CR. While simple monster creation rules are amazingly easy and time saving (at least imo).
My issue with the 5e monster rules isn't the lack of creation rules for CR, it's the "it's so streamlined that it feels gamey" to me. Like, if I wanted something That level of streamlined I'd just go wholehog and play a real rules-light game, rather than deal with the weird changing levels of abstraction and PC's being special snowflakes that operate under their own ruleset compared to the rest of existence.
If they continue to have innate spellcasting that is.
I would posit the answer is similar to the question of where does a 400 pound gorilla sleep?
Or in this case: What does an 85 ton Dragon cast? Anything it wants.
:-)