I like the idea of Nualia having stabbed Tobyn and abandoned him, thinking him dead. I might also have Nualia animate Tobyn's remains as an undead of some sort, if you need additional oomph for the Thistletop encounters. (Maybe she can't do that because he was buried normally, but perhaps Lamashtu did a special favor for her minion? I kind of like the idea of an undead oracle head, though certainly other stuff is possible, like a huecava -- c'mon, Father Tobyn was certainly not living up to Desna's ideals when raising Nualia.)
I will probably keep this in mind if I ever find the time to run Rise of the Runelords myself.
|
My understanding is it takes a lot of heat to actually burn bones (which is why the Sczarni are renting out the Glassworks furnace after hours.) So Father Tobyn's body in the original church fire was burned, but not destroyed.
When Nualia burned his remains as a sacrifice, I imagine there was some magic involved that allowed the fire to actually consume them.
^ This.
Creative Director
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
To me, it's more a matter of intent.
When she kills Tobyn, the fire is really there to cover up the crime to make it look like an accident.
When she burns his remains, it's an offering to Lamashtu.
Both times she uses fire, but the meaning changes drastically.
-Skeld
This is 100% spot on.
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My understanding is it takes a lot of heat to actually burn bones (which is why the Sczarni are renting out the Glassworks furnace after hours.) So Father Tobyn's body in the original church fire was burned, but not destroyed.
When Nualia burned his remains as a sacrifice, I imagine there was some magic involved that allowed the fire to actually consume them.
If Father Tobyn's remains were available to be buried or stored in a vault then I just don't see how his body would not be treated in a way so that it could not be raised. Any decent "good-aligned" priest performing funeral rights would make sure to perform the necessary rights to keep the dead from being raised.
As a side note, I am not very familiar with Pathfinder rules at all. I am running my game in the GURPS system and a simple spell like "Final Rest" in that system would prevent a body from being raised. It is assumed (in the GURPS system) that in a setting where raising of the dead is a possibility, clergy who follow deities that grant powers that allow the turning and destroying of undead would also grant the ability to prevent raising in the first place.
In order to raise someone from the dead, they must both WANT to come back and can't have been judged. That's assuming that the resources to raise a dead person exist in the situation in the first place.
In this case, none of those conditions exist. The creator of the adventure and/or the GM is the one who gets to decide if someone can be raised from the dead, and in cases like this where the story would be disrupted if such an event happened, then it can't work. The ONLY exception is Player Characters—in this case, the player of the character is the only one who gets to decide if she/he wants the character to come back from death, given the opportunity.
I think the spirit of Mr. Jacobs answer applies to Tobyn becoming undead as well. Are there rules for turning Tobyn into undead? Yep. Are there rules for how that might have been prevented when he was buried? Yep. But if the GM wants Tobyn to be undead as part of the story, then those preventive steps weren't taken (or failed.) It's a narrative-centric answer instead of a rule-centric answer.
For my part, undead isn't really Lamashtu's shtick so it would seem odd for Nualia to want him undead. Nor, as-written, does she have undead focused feats/abilities (example: command undead feat.) The narrative intent (Lamashtu's command) is for Nualia to sacrifice her father to her goddess, not turn him into a zombie. And perverting parental relationships IS Lamashtu's shtick.
|
Agreed. I don’t see Nualia wanting more reminders of her human life around, even as an undead monster.
To the OP’s question, I’ve run this twice and no one has had a problem with Tobyn having remains to be buried. I don’t think the changes proposed help, and they would give away that the fire wasn’t accidental. Tobyn being stabbed reveals that Nualia is likely alive, a revelation that has been a fun moment in both my games.