What archetypes do you wish were better?

[Ancient Dragon Master]

Vidmaster7 wrote:

Trinam wrote:

Three words:

Totem. Warrior. Barbarian.

We still don't even know if it does anything at all.

What does that one even do?

From my understanding every barbarian that wants to take a totem feat chaiin is automatically getting that archetype

[Lady-J]

Ancient Dragon Master wrote:

Vidmaster7 wrote:

Trinam wrote:

Three words:

Totem. Warrior. Barbarian.

We still don't even know if it does anything at all.

What does that one even do?

From my understanding every barbarian that wants to take a totem feat chaiin is automatically getting that archetype

you dont need it to take one tho, it was belived back in the day that it granted access to a 2nd totem line but the fact that it didn't trade anything out made it seem a bit to op and was ruled otherwise

[Mike Schneider]

As far as I am concerned, all paladin archetypes suck in multiple ways compared to the base class. (Special contempt reserved for those that forfeit Aura of Justice, which is the best party-wide buff in the game versus over half of all opponents and is a free-action to deploy.)

[Lady-J]

Mike Schneider wrote:

As far as I am concerned, all paladin archetypes suck in multiple ways compared to the base class. (Special contempt reserved for those that forfeit Aura of Justice, which is the best party-wide buff in the game versus over half of all opponents and is a free-action to deploy.)

tempered champion and oath of vengeance are pretty good

[Gulthor]

Mike Schneider wrote:

As far as I am concerned, all paladin archetypes suck in multiple ways compared to the base class. (Special contempt reserved for those that forfeit Aura of Justice, which is the best party-wide buff in the game versus over half of all opponents and is a free-action to deploy.)

Chosen One is pretty nice - it just swaps around the levels at which you get some class features and trades away Divine Bond for a familiar at level 1 and a free Improved Familiar upgrade. By the time you hit level 4, you've evened out the shuffled class features.

Hospitaler gets a shout-out for Oradin builds.

Warrior of the Holy Light is okay for certain concepts (and is again good for multiclassing paladins that aren't getting much use out of paladins Spellcasting.)

I don't have any strong opinions outside those, though.

[Azten]

The Irori archetype is actually really cool.

[Cavall]

I absolutely love the tortured crusader paladin archtype. From the horror adventures.

No divine grace but everything about it rocks.

[Zhayne]

Definitely the spellslinger.

I still want a gun-using sorcerer archetype, dang it, too, but that's another argument.

[Alexandros Satorum]

The need of an archetype just to not suck at using firearm weapons have always struck me as a weakness of the system, but that's another argument.

[Dasrak]

Alexandros Satorum wrote:

The need of an archetype just to not suck at using firearm weapons have always struck me as a weakness of the system, but that's another argument.

Most of the non-gunslinger firearm archetypes can't even manage that much. That's probably the most infuriating thing about the Spellslinger, because for all of its problems and draconian tradeoffs it functions and can actually hit reasonable combat benchmarks.

I guess that's what makes Spellslinger an especially good mention in this thread. Just being bad is one thing, but having promising and interesting class features makes its shortfalls far more disappointing than other comparable gun-using archetypes.