|
A character uses detect undead on an area with a haunt in it. What aura strength do they detect?
I'm going to assume HD equal to the caster level for now.
A character uses detect undead on an area with a haunt in it. What aura strength do they detect?
I'm going to assume HD equal to the caster level for now.
Haunts aren't creatures, don't have HD, and therefore can't be detected as undead creatures via detect undead. From the SRD: "The distinction between a trap and an undead creature blurs when you introduce a haunt—a hazardous region created by unquiet spirits that react violently to the presence of the living." Note: it's a region created by a spirit, not a spirit itself.
|
|
Haunts aren't creatures, don't have HD, and therefore can't be detected as undead creatures via detect undead.A character uses detect undead on an area with a haunt in it. What aura strength do they detect?
I'm going to assume HD equal to the caster level for now.
Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).
Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).
Right. And the "appropriate check" is in the haunt rules:
Notice: This indicates the skill check and DC required to notice the haunt in the surprise round before it manifests. The sensory input for what a successful check notices—such as a faint ghostly wailing, a smell of burning flesh, or fresh blood oozing from the walls—is listed in parentheses after the DC.
For example:
Notice Perception DC 20 (to hear the sound of soft sobbing)
So you get a second shot at rolling the Perception check, but at a -4 penalty. Which is presumably better than not getting a second shot at all, but hit dice don't enter into it. Or even a first check, before the haunt is starting to manifest (e.g. before the surprise round associated with the haunt). If you have a touch-triggered haunt, for example, you don't need to touch the object in order to use detect undead successfully.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Haunts are not undead creatures, so they don't show up normally.
If someone casts detect undead and looks in the appropriate direction for 1 round, they get a reactive Perception(or other) check to notice the haunt at a -4 penalty.
In this case detect undead becomes similar to the Trapspotter rogue talent.
How it shows up is undefined, but until it manifests it is most likely a faint presence. After it is manifesting, determining the strength of the aura by CR rather than HD makes sense.
So you're saying that someone casts detect undead, concentrates for three rounds, and you roll a Perception check to see if they even pick anything up at all? And this applies when a persistent haunt is active, as well?
Yes. You get "the appropriate check" as defined in the haunt rules.
Let's use the example Haunt from the PRD.
XP 1,600
CE haunt (5 ft. by 20 ft. hallway)
Caster Level 5th
Notice Perception DC 20 (to hear the sound of soft sobbing)
hp 10; Trigger proximity; Reset 1 day
Effect: When this haunt is triggered, thick rivulets of blood course down the walls accompanied by the shrill shriek of a woman's scream. All creatures in the hallway are targeted by a fear spell (save DC 16).
Destruction: The body of the maid entombed behind the walls must be extracted and given a proper burial.
The haunt triggers when someone enters the hallway. Once that happens, A surprise round begins and Initiative is rolled. Everyone makes a Perception check, DC 20, to hear the sobbing. Those who pass get to act in the surprise round, as long as they beat the Haunt's Initiative of 10. Any positive energy applied before Initiative 10 reduces its HP, and if it's reduced to 0 it fails to manifest until it resets the next day. If the Haunt isn't reduced to 0 before count 10, the fear spell goes off and the Haunt goes dormant until it resets.
Using detect undead would give you a chance to detect it before anyone entered the room, by making a DC 24 Perception check to notice it. The Perception check from detect undead is before the Haunt triggers, and since it doesn't state how long it takes to detect it, I'd say first round gives you the chance to roll, since the first round of detect undead gives you the presence or absence of undead. Remember that detect undead has a 60' range, and some Haunts don't trigger until you're much closer.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's use the example Haunt from the PRD.
** spoiler omitted **
The haunt triggers when someone enters the hallway. Once that happens, A surprise round begins and Initiative is rolled. Everyone makes a Perception check, DC 20, to hear the sobbing. Those who pass get to act in the surprise round, as long as they beat the Haunt's Initiative of 10. Any positive energy applied before Initiative 10 reduces its HP, and if it's reduced to 0 it fails to manifest until it resets the next day. If the Haunt isn't reduced to 0 before count 10, the fear spell goes off and the Haunt goes dormant until it resets.
Using detect undead would give you a chance to detect it before anyone entered the room, by making a DC 24 Perception check to notice it. The Perception check from detect undead is before the Haunt triggers, and since it doesn't state how long it takes to detect it, I'd say first round gives you the chance to roll, since the first round of detect undead gives you the presence or absence of undead. Remember that detect undead has a 60' range, and some Haunts don't trigger until you're much closer.
Just wanted to highlight the important sentence.
Yeah, it may not be great, since Haunts can have high Perception DCs and adding a penalty to that hurts, but it gives you a chance to notice it before it triggers. Since you normally can't even tell it's there until it's too late, I'll take the -4 penalty and roll before the surprise round.
Yeah, it may not be great, since Haunts can have high Perception DCs and adding a penalty to that hurts, but it gives you a chance to notice it before it triggers. Since you normally can't even tell it's there until it's too late, I'll take the -4 penalty and roll before the surprise round.
It's also only a first-level spell, so it's highly unlikely to be an "I win" spell against haunts, or against anything else, for that matter. Find traps is a second level spell, has a much shorter range, and still isn't a guaranteed success to locate traps.
Treating the caster level as its HD seems reasonable to me.
Pshhh. I've been doing haunts completely wrong.
|
|
What's weird to me about this is that you can be standing in the room, watching your friends suffer from some sort of compulsion, and you can cast this spell that lets you ask if undead are present, and the GM doesn't even get to tell you that. If you succeed at your penalized Perception check at that point, the GM tells you the notice information, I guess? If you fail your penalized Perception check, you assume there are no undead present, which apparently is true by Orfamay's reading but really obfuscates the thematics.
But I'm perfectly happy houseruling this mess away . . .
Once the haunt has gone off, there isn't much need for the spell. It's pretty obvious at that point something is there. At the worst I'd call for a DC 10+ CR Knowledge (religion) check to identify it, but more likely I'd just tell them there was a haunt. It's basically a ghost trap. You don't ask for Perception checks to spot the explosive runes trap that just went off, do you?
Remember how the haunt works. Until it's triggered, there's no evidence unless you have detect undead and make the DC+4. Once triggered everyone gets a Perception check to notice, and you get to possibly act to stop it from manifesting. Once it manifests, it goes dormant for a time, unless it's persistent.
Before triggering is the only time the spell works to find it. After it's triggered, you either know it's coming and use some positive energy on it, or you don't know and it'll be gone by the time you figure it out.