Necromancer Power Over Undead / Control Undead - can a Good PC use this?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Basically this question is sorta what the title says...

Can a "Good" alignment Wizard (Specialty Necromancy) PC with the "Power Over Undead" ability take the "Control Undead" option? this would mean he can "channel" Negative Energy, right?

Scarab Sages

Dash 23 wrote:

Basically this question is sorta what the title says...

Can a "Good" alignment Wizard (Specialty Necromancy) PC with the "Power Over Undead" ability take the "Control Undead" option? this would mean he can "channel" Negative Energy, right?

It's pretty well spelled out in the ability. The Necromancer can select either, but they only able to channeling with regards to this ability feat. They can qualify as channeling for feats like improved channel or extra channel.

As for channeling negative energy, given that the bonus feat (turn undead/command undead) requires Channel positive/negative Energy, and doesn't make any exception for the wizard to be able take feats they don't qualify for, I'd argue that this does count as the ability to count as having the channel negative/positive class feature, for prerequisite purposes.

In any case, The necromancer does not gain the ability to inflict or harm with negative/postive energy, as a cleric would. They can only channel in regard to using this feat. And as per the ability, they are unable to take feats which change the nature of this channel (like alignment channel).

To directly answer you question, yes, a good PC can take "Command Undead" via this power. That said, expect the GM to limit what you can do with the undead if you want to keep your alignment Good. They'd probably let you command the undead to stand still and just allow the Paladin to crush them...beyond that will be subject to the GM's inclination on how evil undead are in their view of their setting.

Silver Crusade

Actually looking to use this on a Paladin/Necromancer I am putting together for PFS. SO... not sure if I'm going to go with "Command Undead" - I'm currently looking at Hallowed Necromancer, which requires me to choice "Turn Undead". But I'm checking out my options...

Scarab Sages

Dash 23 wrote:
Actually looking to use this on a Paladin/Necromancer I am putting together for PFS. SO... not sure if I'm going to go with "Command Undead" - I'm currently looking at Hallowed Necromancer, which requires me to choice "Turn Undead". But I'm checking out my options...

So while I think the concept is funny and is PFS legal, I'd suggest not building such a character. People tend to get rather irrational regarding paladins and necromancers, so I'd leave it as something on the forums, but not in person, at least for PFS.

But to your question, yeah that's one option. I suggest the Life or Bones Oracle for Paladin, since it casts CHA based and can channel. A wizard would be tough, because you'd want CHA for this ability, INT for the wizard casting stat, and then whatever you were planning for the paladin stats (likely CON and either DEX or STR). Plus the Oracle can cast in armor, while the wizard can't. Oracles also allow you to select any mystery, regardless of your deity.

You should probably make up some reason that the deity gave you that mystery (and the curse), even if the reason is how your character has decided to interpret it, not the actual reason.

I have an Oath against Undeath Paladin (worships Iomedae) that just got a level in Black Blooded Oracle. That archetype gives the curse where the Oracle heals and is damaged as undead. So no more lay on hands for myself...My paladin has chosen to interpret this as a sign that the Undeath she will be facing in the future will not be something she could survive without becoming immune to negative energy (even at the cost of being damaged by positive energy). If she could feel fear, should would fear for her future.


Paladin/Sorcerer into Eldritch Knight could also work. Your ability to command undead would come from the spell rather than the feat, but honestly the spell is better anyways.

Silver Crusade

Progressing on my Palamancer build, been working on "back-story" and am deciding on Race and Stats.

Right now deciding between:
Deity: Apsu (or maybe Abadar? or Shalyn?)
Human or Wayang... (or maybe Halfling/Gnome?)
with base stats (before racial adjustments) of:
14,12,12,14,7,16 or 14,14,12,14,8,14

Traits - I'll be going with Magical Knack, and Irrepressible.

3rd level Feat will be Arcane Armor Training. Not sure about my 1st level one yet (or the Human Bonus).

Archetypes: Thinking of going Divine Hunter Paladin, and/or maybe Hallowed Necromancer (from Horror Adventures).

I think I'll start listing the build as this PC, so you can click on it to see his current write-up...

The Exchange

Here's the write-up on

Power over Undead:

Power over Undead (Su): You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Charisma modifier. At 20th level, undead cannot add their channel resistance to the save against this ability.

Can a PC use the "channel energy" feature of this ability with the feat Divine Barrier (from Inner Sea Gods)? ("...expend one use of your channel energy ability as an immediate action...")

Scarab Sages

nosig wrote:

Here's the write-up on

** spoiler omitted **
Power over Undead (Su): You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat.

Can a PC use the "channel energy" feature of this ability with the feat Divine Barrier (from Inner Sea Gods)? ("...expend one use of your channel energy ability as an immediate action...")

No. The channel granted by power over undead can only be used for Command Undead or Turn Undead. You can't consume a use of that channel for any other purpose.

Silver Crusade

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I have a Wizard (Necromancer) command Undead/ Cleric (Pharasma) positive Turn Undead / Mystic Theurge 3/3/9 (15 level) in PFS

:

I initially started the character in PFS in 09. It was one of my first Pathfinder characters. This was a few months after the core rule book was published.

I was rather excited that I had a character who could both command and turn undead.

Because the command undead came from the necromancer class and turn undead came from the cleric class, I realized that they wouldn't stack, and would in the long run not be very useful. So I abandoned the multi class wizard/cleric and went into Mystic Theurge.

My character uses the command undead spell instead.

I do not believe your channel positive energy from your paladin class and your channel energy from your necromancer class will stack.

While a cleric/necromancer of Pharasma might seem contradictory, my character was a cleric first necromancer second. My idea with the turn/command undead, was that he was interested in studying both life and death....beginnings and endings....which are part of Pharasma's portfolion. My character never animated the dead. He used his necromancy to controll /destroy the undead, and to weaken or kill his enemies.

He was helping break the unnatural state of undeath and helping ghosts etc to move onto Pharasma's plane.


I just put my thoughts behind a spoiler so not everyone has to read it.
I enjoyed the character. And I hope you enjoy your paladin/necromancer too.

The Exchange

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I have a Wizard (Necromancer) command Undead/ Cleric (Pharasma) positive Turn Undead / Mystic Theurge 3/3/9 (15 level) in PFS

** spoiler omitted **
I just put my thoughts behind a spoiler so not everyone has to read it.
I enjoyed the character. And I hope you enjoy your paladin/necromancer too.

Thanks! I'm sure enjoying him now and I'm only just creating him.

reply to spoiler:

I actually haven't consider that the Channel Energy from the two classes would stack - as this is only the second time I've played a Paladin in PFS and my other one is only a Mixed Mutt (Ftr/Cav/Pal) with only one or two levels of Paladin... So far he has avoided falling, but the "Don't Lie" restriction is massive issue with someone used to using the Bluff skill.

Scarab Sages

FYI, channel from multiple classes do not stack. FAQ

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Imbicatus wrote:
FYI, channel from multiple classes do not stack. FAQ

I actually didn't figure they would...

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