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I have a Ranger character who has just hit level 4 and I thought I would take a look at alternative class features and saw the Skirmisher archetype in Advanced Players Guide (page 128). This archetype gains Hunter's Tricks at the expense of spell casting.
I am very much interested in taking this archetype, but I cannot do so until level 5, however I just wanted to confirm that although I would gain no benefit until level 5 I would need to choose not to take the Ranger spellcasting feature at level 4 - correct?
So I give up a benefit I would get at level 4, for a benefit I won't get until level 5. If so that is cool with me, I just hope the character doesn't die before then! :)
A related question though is that, up until now I have been using a Wand of CLW without making a UMD check as it is a spell on the Ranger list. Now I have effectively had that benefit through three levels, however because I have now decided on my intention to take SKirmisher, I presumably should start to have to make UMD checks and handwave / retcon how I was able to use my wand to easily previously. Correct?
Thanks in advance!
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You'd have to spend the money and prestige to retrain into that archetype, as you have to choose which archetypes your taking, if any, when you start taking those class levels.
As per the Retraining, since your ranger is giving up spells to gain hunter tricks, it'd be 5PP + 400 gp to train into a Skirmisher.
You could wait until 5th, so you have access to spells for atleast 1 level.
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You'd have to spend the money and prestige to retrain into that archetype, as you have to choose which archetypes your taking, if any, when you start taking those class levels.
As per the Retraining, since your ranger is giving up spells to gain hunter tricks, it'd be 5PP + 400 gp to train into a Skirmisher.
Hmm,that sounds a bit harsh to have to have spend 5PP + 400 gp to have had the benefit of using Wands of CLW without a test for 3 levels (16 charges) just because I wasn't aware of the archetype until now.
Ironically my character does have a half decent UMD rating because he picked up the Dangerously Curious trait (UMD is class skill and has a +1 bonus) at character creation and has max ranks, so he could likely have made the UMD checks to use the wand anyway (or more likely passed it to a team member who could use it).
In fact I think I initially did make UMD checks because I had forgotten that you didn't need to be able to cast spells to use a wand just have it on the class' spell list.
You could wait until 5th, so you have access to spells for atleast 1 level.
Still expensive, but I won't be doing this as I know my character will be a skirmisher.
Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Hmm,that sounds a bit harsh to have to have spend 5PP + 400 gp to have had the benefit of using Wands of CLW without a test for 3 levels (16 charges) just because I wasn't aware of the archetype until now.
Harsh yes, but that is the rules. I took Quick Draw on a character, after one adventure I realized it did not work the way I thought and got rid of it before the next adventure. An expensive lesson, but I do remember.
Maybe you can semi-retire this character and start a new one as a skirmisher from the beginning.
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In general you don't have to choose to take an archetype until the first level where a class feature would be replaced.
Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype.
In your specific case you do have to retrain. The "spells" class feature is what gave you the ability to use wands at lower levels.
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You'd have to spend the money and prestige to retrain into that archetype, as you have to choose which archetypes your taking, if any, when you start taking those class levels.
As per the Retraining, since your ranger is giving up spells to gain hunter tricks, it'd be 5PP + 400 gp to train into a Skirmisher.
Hmm,that sounds a bit harsh to have to have spend 5PP + 400 gp to have had the benefit of using Wands of CLW without a test for 3 levels (16 charges) just because I wasn't aware of the archetype until now.
Ironically my character does have a half decent UMD rating because he picked up the Dangerously Curious trait (UMD is class skill and has a +1 bonus) at character creation and has max ranks, so he could likely have made the UMD checks to use the wand anyway (or more likely passed it to a team member who could use it).
In fact I think I initially did make UMD checks because I had forgotten that you didn't need to be able to cast spells to use a wand just have it on the class' spell list.
You could wait until 5th, so you have access to spells for atleast 1 level.Still expensive, but I won't be doing this as I know my character will be a skirmisher.
You can delay taking an archetype until the level at which the first change occurs from the base. In this case that is level 4 when you normally gain spellcasting. You will need to retrain to gain the archetype.
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I just read the PFS Roleplaying Guild Guide and noticed that Retraining requires you to own the Ultimate Campaign book, which I do not. So retraining is not possible and I am stuck unable to take the archetype in the book I do own, just because I wasn't aware of the archetype when I made the character :(
Oh how I wish I had continued to incorrectly think I had to make UMD checks to use the wand and in effect unwittingly taken the archetype from level 1.
Maybe you can semi-retire this character and start a new one as a skirmisher from the beginning.
I wouldn't do that, its taken me nearly 3 and half years to level up to where I am, and some of the key boons that make the character are not available.
Oh well, it looks like I am stuck (I wish I hadn't asked the question to be honest!) TBH I like the idea of a not spell casting ranger now, so will likely just ignore the spellcasting feature from now on anyway on principle and go back to using UMD for my wand.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Oh well, it looks like I am stuck (I wish I hadn't asked the question to be honest!) TBH I like the idea of a not spell casting ranger now, so will likely just ignore the spellcasting feature from now on anyway on principle and go back to using UMD for my wand.
Well, when you have the extra coinage, it is only $10 for PDF of Ultimate Campaign. It as part of the humble bundle last year if you did that.
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Well, when you have the extra coinage, it is only $10 for PDF of Ultimate Campaign. It as part of the humble bundle last year if you did that.
Yeah, I guess I could buy the PDF, though it seems a waste to spend $10 just to allow my character to take the archetype (I doubt I will find any use for it for anything else).
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I wasn't aware of the archetype when I made the character :(
Some players settle on a certain race, and then later the race they really wanted becomes legal.
Some players purchase an item and then three games later hear about something cooler.
Some players have their entire character's career planned from 1st-13th, and find out halfway through that something they needed isn't legal.
Some players retired characters at 13th level before Retraining was ever an option.
Sometimes errata ruins a build, and the options for fixing it don't work in your particular instance.
You're not being punished for asking a question. Sometimes life throws you curve balls. If you have three years invested in this character, it doesn't sound like you're going to trash it because of a hiccup. Continue playing the character you love and just adapt to the circumstances.
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I wasn't aware of the archetype when I made the character :(Some players settle on a certain race, and then later the race they really wanted becomes legal.
Some players purchase an item and then three games later hear about something cooler.
Some players have their entire character's career planned from 1st-13th, and find out halfway through that something they needed isn't legal.
Some players retired characters at 13th level before Retraining was ever an option.
Sometimes errata ruins a build, and the options for fixing it don't work in your particular instance.
You're not being punished for asking a question. Sometimes life throws you curve balls. If you have three years invested in this character, it doesn't sound like you're going to trash it because of a hiccup. Continue playing the character you love and just adapt to the circumstances.
Sometimes something new comes out and is legal that you decide it better for your build.
Buying the book so you can retrain is well worth it if you play a lot. I have entire character concepts that just did not work out at level 5 or 6 that I thought would. So sometimes I end up just retraining them to something more enjoyable.
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If the character hasn't been played at level 4 yet, the level which first has a change for the added archetype, then surely it can be added without retraining? At least that's how I read things.
The character hasn't been played at level 4 yet, however I believe the other posters are saying that theoretically I would have had to have chosen the archetype at character creation (despite not getting a benefit until level 5) because I should have given up the ability to spell trigger magic items.
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If the character hasn't been played at level 4 yet, the level which first has a change for the added archetype, then surely it can be added without retraining? At least that's how I read things.The character hasn't been played at level 4 yet, however I believe the other posters are saying that theoretically I would have had to have chosen the archetype at character creation (despite not getting a benefit until level 5) because I should have given up the ability to spell trigger magic items.
But you *have* been getting benefits before Level 5. You said so yourself.
EDIT: just saw you were purchased UC anyways. So. Nevermind.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Well, I have found I had $5 store credit so I bought the Ultimate Campaign PDF and will get it all changed officially at my next con, it looks like 200gp and 5pp (it's the pm cost that kills me!)
Hopefully I will find some use in the extra traits in the book as well.
Awesome!
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Well, I have found I had $5 store credit so I bought the Ultimate Campaign PDF and will get it all changed officially at my next con, it looks like 200gp and 5pp (it's the pm cost that kills me!)
Hopefully I will find some use in the extra traits in the book as well.
At early levels, yes the prestige cost hurts- as it's an easy ticket for expensive potions.
But at later levels, when you start pooling prestige, you don't need it as much.|
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At early levels, yes the prestige cost hurts- as it's an easy ticket for expensive potions.
But at later levels, when you start pooling prestige, you don't need it as much.
Luckily I have the 5pp and the 200gp cost (10 X level 4 X 5 days) is not slot.
Theoretically, I could actually get the benefit of proper spell casting (albeit 1 spell a day) for one level and retrain just before hitting level 5. But as I said, I don't see him being a spell caster, just someone who dabbles with magic items (hence the UMD).
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville
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The retraining costs for archtypes are nuts.
Retrained several feats...
Thought about training out a level of Cleric for Envoy of Balance too expensive, shook my head and moved on. Started the class the next level and made a note to pay attention to entry requirements better..(I qualified for the class a level before I thought..just sucked it up as a lesson learned...Trained out Sorcerer for Enchanting Courtesan (much better fit, though I lost the ability to mind whammy constructs and undead)
Retraining is useful but my experience teaches me 'read the rules three times before applying, and if you're still unsure. Ask a VO or the boards'
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Retraining is useful but my experience teaches me 'read the rules three times before applying, and if you're still unsure. Ask a VO or the boards'
Which is a little whacko as an amount of research for a game , and also doesn't help when a new book comes out with the perfect archetype for your character.
But retraining an archetype can take up more prestige than you have, and it gets more expensive as you gain more prestige. Yes there should be a cost but it shouldn't be that high. Perhaps half of what a level would cost.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville
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Retraining is useful but my experience teaches me 'read the rules three times before applying, and if you're still unsure. Ask a VO or the boards'
Which is a little whacko as an amount of research for a game , and also doesn't help when a new book comes out with the perfect archetype for your character.
But retraining an archetype can take up more prestige than you have, and it gets more expensive as you gain more prestige. Yes there should be a cost but it shouldn't be that high. Perhaps half of what a level would cost.
True, the PP cost gets hideous at times.