Ratfolk and DEX vs. STR


Rules Questions


I'm playing in a 15-point build campaign, and we don't use the Mythic rules. I wanted to build a ninja, but discovered that strength is going to be tanked no matter how I try to build the character. Are there any non-mythic feats that allow a dex-based character to use dex mod in some way for damage instead of strength?


There are none.

Weapon Finesse only goes towards to hit; I think there is a purposeful effort by Paizo to never allow "dex-as-damage-bonus" as a measure to prevent DEX from being the "boss" stat, since a high DEX affects so many other aspects of the game.


Slashing grace


Look up the Dervish Dance, Fencing Grace, and Slashing Grace feats. There are others too.


Also the Agile Enchantment for your weapon.


Unchained rogue as well.


Unchained Rogue with an Elven Curved Blade.


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I wouldn't encourage someone to make a build that relies on a specific type of weapon, but the unchained rogue and most of the means to gain Dex to damage require you to do so.


Aldori Swordlord gets Dex to Damage on Dueling Swords at 1st level as well, its a Prestige Class so it has some hoops to jump through.


Java Man wrote:
Unchained rogue as well.

Worth noting that a character with Ninja class levels can never take levels in Rogue as it is an alternate class to the rogue.

In the same vein, an Unchained Rogue can never take levels in "chained" Rogue, which infers they can't take Ninja levels either.


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"Unchained ninja" is a thing that exists, if the GM allows it. As is unchained rogue plus weapon reflavouring.

Or, a combination of brawler/monk and unchained rogue can give all those eastern weapons plus dex to damage, though it'd take four levels to get there.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'd urge the GM to allow "Unchained Ninja", which is simply a Ninja with the added features of Unchained Rogue (Finesse Training, Debilitating Injury, and Skill Unlocks). Since they're all new class features there are no abilities that need to be traded out and no incompatibilities. Should work well.

Silver Crusade

If your GM allows any third party, you could ask about Deadly Agility from Path of War. It's by Dreamscarred Press, and pretty much any GM who allows any third party will allow their stuff.


Falconer: Sadly my GM has pretty much permanently ruled out 3rd party stuff. Thanks everyone else - I'll try the Unchained Ninja idea as it has merit. Also thanks for the feat suggestions!


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Well the unchained ninja if firmly NOT 1st party. So if your GM is 1st party stuff only then an unchained ninja isn't an option either.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:
Well the unchained ninja if firmly NOT 1st party. So if your GM is 1st party stuff only then an unchained ninja isn't an option either.
Well that depends on if ninja is considered a rogue archetype that replaces every feature from the Core rogue. If it is, then by this line,
Unchained p.8 wrote:
Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace.

an "Unchained Ninja" would be an Unchained rogue - all features of the Core rogue + all features of ninja; essentially a ninja + finesse training, debilitating injury, and Rogue's edge.


Ratfolk has the option to take the scurrying swarmer feat. This makes them excellent for sneak attack classes such as unchained rogue.

Natural weapons are great for this type of build and ratfolk can take the sharp claws feat to get 2 claw attacks and combine this with a tailblade.


thewastedwalrus wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Well the unchained ninja if firmly NOT 1st party. So if your GM is 1st party stuff only then an unchained ninja isn't an option either.
Well that depends on if ninja is considered a rogue archetype that replaces every feature from the Core rogue. If it is, then by this line,
Unchained p.8 wrote:
Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace.
an "Unchained Ninja" would be an Unchained rogue - all features of the Core rogue + all features of ninja; essentially a ninja + finesse training, debilitating injury, and Rogue's edge.

The PDT officially stated that the ninja is not a rogue archetype and that it CANNOT be unchained. here is a thread that goes over this and links all the relevant posts.


Huh. Thanks for the head's-up. The DM for the party switched recently so I might have a slim chance of getting away with the changes for the additions of the unchained rogue abilities. If I can't, I'll check out the tail blade option. Didn't see the "Scurrying Swarmer" feat mentioned though. Is it listed under some secondary area of the SRD web site?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Flames of Chaos wrote:
Huh. Thanks for the head's-up. The DM for the party switched recently so I might have a slim chance of getting away with the changes for the additions of the unchained rogue abilities. If I can't, I'll check out the tail blade option. Didn't see the "Scurrying Swarmer" feat mentioned though. Is it listed under some secondary area of the SRD web site?
It's from a Player Companion and I think only material from the main line of books is shown on the SRD.
Scurrying Swarmer wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Ratfolk, swarming racial trait.

Benefit(s): You can use your swarming racial trait to enter the square of any willing ally that is the same size as you or up to one size category larger, granting you the benefits of the swarming racial trait as if your ally were also a ratfolk with the swarming racial trait. Your ally gains no benefits from sharing its space with you unless it also has the swarming racial trait. Additionally, you treat any ally who shares its space with you as having the same teamwork feats that you do for the purpose of determining whether you gain a bonus from teamwork feats. Your ally doesn’t gain any of the bonuses from these feats unless she actually has the teamwork feats. You and your ally’s positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in a teamwork feat’s description in order to gain the teamwork feat’s listed bonus, but your ally is considered to be adjacent to you while you share her space for the purpose of determining whether you or your ally gains a benefit.


I played a vivisectionist alchemist ratfolk. I used a tumor familiar (mauler archetype) to always have flanking all the time.

If you play with lots of melee, having your own flank partner isn't as necessary. If you don't then you will want to buy a mount (like a riding dog) or get yourself a familiar (wasp familiar or iron will/familiar bond) or animal companion (nature soul/animal ally) to ride.

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