Shooting down the rabbit hole of the FAQ on Bows and Ammo


Rules Questions


*no rabbits actually intended to be harmed by this post.

faq:
Magic Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: When a ranged weapon shares its enhancement bonus with its ammunition, does this count as “true” enhancement bonus or more like a temporary bonus like greater magic weapon? In other words, does the shared enhancement bonus allow the arrow to bypass damage reduction as if it was cold iron, silver, adamantine, and aligned?
No, other than the ways indicated in the Core Rulebook (if the ranged weapon is at least +1, they count as magic, and if the ranged weapon is aligned they count as that alignment as well) the enhancement bonus granted to ammunition from the ranged weapon doesn’t help them overcome the other types of damage reduction. Archers and other such characters can buy various sorts of ammunition or ammunition with a high enhancement bonus to overcome the various types of damage reduction.- Design team

Now the way I've always seen it read is that a bow just transfers it's properties to the arrow. Now there's a question coming up if it does that at all unless that little subscript 2 specifically allowing the weapon to do that. for example, would a ghost touch bow be of any use (besides a ghost that also had the forsight to be burried with ghost touch arrows or someone beating ghosts on the head with the worlds most expensive non masterwork club)

Would that break splatbook enchants that don't have charts?

The Exchange

You are correct in that if the adjustment does not include the Superscript 2 it does not apply to the ammo fired from the enchanted weapon.

As for Ghost Touch, that is a melee enchantment, so it never worked on a Bow to be able to shoot ghosts. That is why you need Ghost Touch or Ghost Salt'd Arrows.

Without Charts I would imagine the enchantments would probably default to melee only unless they say they are for ranged weapons, and then you would need to determine if the intent of the enchantment was to be conferred to ammo or not.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:


As for Ghost Touch, that is a melee enchantment

Citation?

The Exchange

Melee Weapon Special Abilities Table
Ranged Weapon Special Abilities Table

Check the Tables, Ghost Touch is listed on the Melee table, and not listed on the Ranged table.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Post FAQ we know the subscript matters.

Ghost Touch is handled by the GT arrows/salts/etc.

Do you have an example of a ranged special property in a book without a chart?


James Risner wrote:

Post FAQ we know the subscript matters.

Ghost Touch is handled by the GT arrows/salts/etc.

Do you have an example of a ranged special property in a book without a chart?

The advanced players guide ranged special table lacks the subscript on anything but corrosive

Raw conductive wouldn't work
Huntsman wouldn't work


greyflame isn't on the table but isn't called out as melee only either.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:


Check the Tables, Ghost Touch is listed on the Melee table, and not listed on the Ranged table.

How much that was supposed to be a rule or a random treasure generator is also part of the question here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ultimate Equipment:

Ghost Touch wrote:

Price +1 bonus; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Weight —

A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons and ammunition.


suppose that answers the specific example but still looking at the general question of whether ranged weapon enchants are limited to the ones on the chart or if they're back door limited by not having the subscript.

Scarab Sages

James Risner wrote:

Post FAQ we know the subscript matters.

Ghost Touch is handled by the GT arrows/salts/etc.

Do you have an example of a ranged special property in a book without a chart?

Pre-FAQ the superscript mattered.

Since it is the only thing that granted the special abilities of a ranged weapon to its ammunition.(To avoid confusion, an enhancement bonus is not a special ability)

Scarab Sages

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Now the way I've always seen it read is that a bow just transfers it's properties to the arrow. Now there's a question coming up if it does that at all unless that little subscript 2 specifically allowing the weapon to do that. for example, would a ghost touch bow be of any use (besides a ghost that also had the forsight to be burried with ghost touch arrows or someone beating ghosts on the head with the worlds most expensive non masterwork club)

Would that break splatbook enchants that don't have charts?

The Huntsman special ability would only grant the survival check bonus and not the extra damage as ammunition is not granted the ability.

Cruel is useless on a launching weapon unless you hit a creature with the ranged weapon as its ammunition is not granted the ability. This is also true of Planar.

Please note that the Seeking special ability is also not granted to ammunition.


Lorewalker wrote:
Please note that the Seeking special ability is also not granted to ammunition.

And that particular lack of superscript is apparently a mistake, according to John Compton, a little over 3 years ago


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Paizo should really just put out a new table of what attributes apply to what melee weapons [include ranged missile weapons used in melee here {the 1% use case for these}], ranged missile weapons (only for transfer to ammo {the 99% use case for these}), thrown weapons, and ammo itself. Then in the future, update the table with any new attributes {or weapon types} that come into the game.

In home games, the GM can obviously do whatever; but at least PFS will have a simple one place stop to look for these rules interactions.

Scarab Sages

Andy Brown wrote:
Lorewalker wrote:
Please note that the Seeking special ability is also not granted to ammunition.
And that particular lack of superscript is apparently a mistake, according to John Compton, a little over 3 years ago

There is an issue with that for PFS... it needs to be a FAQ or written by the PDT to be official. Or written by a PFS official in a PFS thread.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Lorewalker wrote:
Andy Brown wrote:
Lorewalker wrote:
Please note that the Seeking special ability is also not granted to ammunition.
And that particular lack of superscript is apparently a mistake, according to John Compton, a little over 3 years ago
There is an issue with that for PFS... it needs to be a FAQ or written by the PDT to be official. Or written by a PFS official in a PFS thread.

That post is a PFS official, so it's solid and official for PFS.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Seeking is on the Ranged Weapons, and says it's only for Ranged Weapons. A bow should make the Arrows Seeking, this FAQ should not change that. This ability does not say anything about DR.

The Exchange

thaX wrote:
Seeking is on the Ranged Weapons, and says it's only for Ranged Weapons. A bow should make the Arrows Seeking, this FAQ should not change that. This ability does not say anything about DR.

The recent FAQ does not change that, all that is being said is even before the FAQ the Seeking quality does not have the superscript 2 indicating that it is applied to the ammunition of projectile ranged weapons. Which would mean it only works on thrown weapons.

However also as pointed out, there is a forum post by John Compton that states that was an error/oversight. And that it does in fact work with projectile weapons.

The Exchange

Cast Raise Thread what's a little Thread Necromancy between gamers?

In the Advanced Class guide is the Alchemical item -
Holy Weapon Balm:
"This violet balm comes in a small ceramic pot. When applied to a weapon as a standard action, it forms a transparent coating. Weapons coated in this balm deal an additional 2d4 points of damage to undead or evil outsiders. A creature affected by the balm must succeed at a DC 10 Reflex save or take an additional 1d4 points of damage the following round. Any nonmagical weapon coated with the balm affects incorporeal undead or evil outsiders as if it were a magic weapon. Any magic weapon coated with the balm affects incorporeal undead or evil outsiders as if the weapon had the ghost touch special ability. The balm remains effective until you make a successful attack with the weapon or until 1 minute has passed, whichever comes first. Each dose of balm can coat one weapon or 10 pieces of ammunition."

So - I am assuming that an arrow with Holy Weapon Balm on it, fired from a (+1) magic bow would count as "Any magic weapon coated with the balm..." and so would affect incorporeal undead and evil outsider as if the weapon had the ghost touch special ability... not that that does that much for the evil outsiders (are there any that count as incorporeal?)

Is that correct? Or am I mixed up on how this works again?


Yyyyyyyyyyyes? I think so. The arrow counts as magical without the balm, so it should be all ghost touch-y with the balm.

The Exchange

blahpers wrote:
Yyyyyyyyyyyes? I think so. The arrow counts as magical without the balm, so it should be all ghost touch-y with the balm.

Thanks for the reply...

That's what I think too.

Let's see what everyone else says...

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