Netflix's Castlevania anime


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Silver Crusade

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This is what happens when you start spamming create undead.


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Hama wrote:
Trust me, if a town burned my wife for being a witch, I would kill every last one of them.

Especially when all she was trying to do was HELP THEM? Considering that she took a great risk in going up to [REDACTED] in the FIRST PLACE?

Man, I'd wipe that place clean and salt the earth.

Silver Crusade

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ShinHakkaider wrote:
Hama wrote:
Trust me, if a town burned my wife for being a witch, I would kill every last one of them.

Especially when all she was trying to do was HELP THEM? Considering that she took a great risk in going up to [REDACTED] in the FIRST PLACE?

Man, I'd wipe that place clean and salt the earth.

Seconded.


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I can't say what Dracula is doing is justified, as what he's doing is both wholesale slaughter and a wholesale betrayal of his murdered wife's ideals. There is no actual justice there, just large-scale violence.

But what Dracula's doing is completely understandable, even if it's wrong. Which is perfectly in line for the Castlevania series story line post-Symphony of the Night.

Silver Crusade

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Rage and vengeance are some of the most intoxicating drugs there are.


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Rysky wrote:
Rage and vengeance are some of the most intoxicating drugs there are.

well said


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As vengeance is a major storyline point, I'll be watching tonight.

Scarab Sages

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As someone who absolutely loved Lords of Shadow, even though this is largely taken from the Castlevania 2 and 3 mythos I really enjoyed it. Whips, crazy gear filled dungeons, and lots of moral grey areas all around. And it looks fantastic too. Definitely going to watch season 2.


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Two episodes in now and really starting to come around to the whole unholy slaughter thing.

These people are a$%@!!*s

Even Beaumont is like "I really should just leave these people to get butchered but damn it...I'm a hero so I guess I'll do something."

He's like the most cynical bitter pissed off paladin I've ever seen.

The light may be a flicker candle on it's last embers, but it's still in there.


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Zhangar wrote:

I can't say what Dracula is doing is justified, as what he's doing is both wholesale slaughter and a wholesale betrayal of his murdered wife's ideals. There is no actual justice there, just large-scale violence.

But what Dracula's doing is completely understandable, even if it's wrong. Which is perfectly in line for the Castlevania series story line post-Symphony of the Night.

Is it even understandable? I mean, if it was me I would just kill the bishop and remind all the peasants that I'm literally Batman and won't tolerate anymore witch-burning nonsense.

If your going to be vengeful be at least discerning and specific about your vengeance.


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It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

Dark Archive

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Eh... He lost me at summoning an army to slaughter all of Walachia. If he had simply burnt that city to the ground, preferably right then and there, I would have 100% backed him up as they were all culpable. The whole country though? I don't think so.


I was insanely disappointed. 4 episodes, all set up??? The bad guys are the ones that are sympathetic??

Trevor has glimmers of being kick-butt awesome and the show has glimmers of being exactly what I want in a Castlevania show... but then it falls way short and gets mired down in it's 'shades of grey' and bitterness.

What the point of this?!? Only 4 episodes means they weren't very hopeful of it, but then why bother?? It's literally nothing but the opening chapter of a video game 27 years old on a system most of the people working on probably never played?!?!

Sure... it got picked up for another season... but how many seasons will it actually TAKE before we get to see Belmont vs. Dracula? 3? 4? 10??

Having just spent months if not years going through some Assassin Creed games only to need 5 straight games to actually tell one story... I REALLY don't see this becoming a thing for me. If they can't tell a simple, Monster Hunter defends the world by stopping Dracula without artificially inflating it for multiple seasons... until it gets unceremoniously canceled at a cliffhanger... then yeah, this will be a major disappointment.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:

It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

His demons are also flat out killing babies too. The guy is genocidal he's and acting like a psychopathic bigot that needs to murder an entire nation of people to sate his revenge. That's not understandable, it's stupid, morally lazy, and childish.


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Delightful wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

His demons are also flat out killing babies too. The guy is genocidal he's and acting like a psychopathic bigot that needs to murder an entire nation of people to sate his revenge. That's not understandable, it's stupid, morally lazy, and childish.

Maybe the people of that nation should have taken that into account when they stood by and let an innocent woman be burned at the stake for the crime of TRYING TO HELP THEM with medicine and science. People never, NEVER consider their actions (or lack thereof) as long as they believe those actions (or lack thereof) won't affect them. They will (the majority of them) will stand by and let it happen. As long as it's not THIER babies or people that THEY care about getting killed or hurt? Who cares, right?

Yes, Dracula is committing genocide for revenge. Is it wrong? Probably. But just because the people of Walachia are a passive evil makes them NO LESS EVIL and no less deserving of their fates. And burning a woman at the stake for being a witch ISNT "Stupid, morally (and intellectually I might add) lazy and childish?" PLEASE...

Sovereign Court

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Delightful wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

His demons are also flat out killing babies too. The guy is genocidal he's and acting like a psychopathic bigot that needs to murder an entire nation of people to sate his revenge. That's not understandable, it's stupid, morally lazy, and childish.

To him, people are cockroaches. Would you think about feelings and lives of cockroaches if they infested your home and killed your wife? Or would you get two dozen bug bombs and set them off all in the house and then light that house on fire?


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Delightful wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

His demons are also flat out killing babies too. The guy is genocidal he's and acting like a psychopathic bigot that needs to murder an entire nation of people to sate his revenge. That's not understandable, it's stupid, morally lazy, and childish.

no, ignoring the murder of an innocent woman who dared to educate herself is ignorant, morally lazy, and childish.


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Thing is these people don't seem to even want to learn from the mistakes. They are all "Ok so...if we burn these Seeker fellows, THAT'll Fix it right"

they are just bloody stupid sheeple.


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phantom1592 wrote:

I was insanely disappointed. 4 episodes, all set up??? The bad guys are the ones that are sympathetic??

Trevor has glimmers of being kick-butt awesome and the show has glimmers of being exactly what I want in a Castlevania show... but then it falls way short and gets mired down in it's 'shades of grey' and bitterness.

What the point of this?!? Only 4 episodes means they weren't very hopeful of it, but then why bother?? It's literally nothing but the opening chapter of a video game 27 years old on a system most of the people working on probably never played?!?!

Sure... it got picked up for another season... but how many seasons will it actually TAKE before we get to see Belmont vs. Dracula? 3? 4? 10??

Having just spent months if not years going through some Assassin Creed games only to need 5 straight games to actually tell one story... I REALLY don't see this becoming a thing for me. If they can't tell a simple, Monster Hunter defends the world by stopping Dracula without artificially inflating it for multiple seasons... until it gets unceremoniously canceled at a cliffhanger... then yeah, this will be a major disappointment.

there is a host of 80s cartoons for you to watch to revel in simple black and white morality. The majority of us prefer some motivation behind actions, and if it makes the world grey, all the better.


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BlackOuroboros wrote:
Eh... He lost me at summoning an army to slaughter all of Walachia. If he had simply burnt that city to the ground, preferably right then and there, I would have 100% backed him up as they were all culpable. The whole country though? I don't think so.

He gave them a year to move. That's incredibly merciful.

Dark Archive

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phantom1592 wrote:

What the point of this?!? Only 4 episodes means they weren't very hopeful of it, but then why bother?? It's literally nothing but the opening chapter of a video game 27 years old on a system most of the people working on probably never played?!?!

Sure... it got picked up for another season... but how many seasons will it actually TAKE before we get to see Belmont vs. Dracula? 3? 4? 10??

Animation is expensive and Netflix wasn't sure this was going to fly so they tested it with what was essentially a pilot. Now that it "tested well", there is already another 8 episodes on the way. If it continues to do well then I would expect a full length season 3.


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Freehold DM wrote:
BlackOuroboros wrote:
Eh... He lost me at summoning an army to slaughter all of Walachia. If he had simply burnt that city to the ground, preferably right then and there, I would have 100% backed him up as they were all culpable. The whole country though? I don't think so.
He gave them a year to move. That's incredibly merciful.

D00d, that's right. I'd totally forgotten about that encounter and coversation with the old lady in the first episode. I honestly think that he hadnt run into her and seen her sympathy for his wife he would have killed all of them on THAT DAY.

That old lady probably saved ALOT of lives.


To be honest I can see them finishing it with another eight eps - Alucard's all out of backstory, Trevor's back to form, Sypha's all set.

After Grant gets introduced, we're also pretty much out of canon plot apart from climbing Castlevania itself and the final showdown - Dracula's Curse isn't exactly a complex story by itself, hell, they've already taken a cue or two from Symphony of the Night to fill in gaps.

That said, them doing more adaptations (SotN, Rondo of Blood, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia or the Sorrow Duology having more than one main lead probably easier to write than either of Simon's solo quests) would be awesome once III's done.


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Greylurker wrote:

Thing is these people don't seem to even want to learn from the mistakes. They are all "Ok so...if we burn these Seeker fellows, THAT'll Fix it right"

they are just bloody stupid sheeple.

After all their "Burn the witches" talk, the mob being cowed by Sypha's display of actual power was pretty amusing (and seemed about right).

Also relevant (SFW YouTube link)

@ ShinHakkaider - also worth pointing out that the people who opposed the burning simply didn't come to it. It's a pretty reasonable assumption that openly opposing the Church's judgment would've meant joining Lisa on the pyre.

Dracula's wholesale slaughter means he's punishing the powerless for being powerless. (Though his rage at the grand opening of the cathedral marking the anniversary of his wife's murder... Again, completely understandable rage.)

Heh. Another way to look at it is that Lisa had been working for a couple decades on redeeming an evil demigod and the Church wiped out all of her progress in a day.

Sovereign Court

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He's given them a freaking year to leave. A year.

Scarab Sages

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I'm going to have to rewatch Vampire D: Bloodlust while I wait for season two, aren't I.

Silver Crusade

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Belabras wrote:
I'm going to have to rewatch Vampire D: Bloodlust while I wait for season two, aren't I.

Do eet.


Hama wrote:
He's given them a freaking year to leave. A year.

I don't thing is its do terribly easy to make an entire nation of people move somewhere else. I mean, if it's a horrible clusterf~~& in our own recent history I can't imagine it's any easier in the Dark Ages. Besides, that still doesn't answer why the entire country has to move instead of the people directly responsible for the burning.


Freehold DM wrote:
Delightful wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

His demons are also flat out killing babies too. The guy is genocidal he's and acting like a psychopathic bigot that needs to murder an entire nation of people to sate his revenge. That's not understandable, it's stupid, morally lazy, and childish.
no, ignoring the murder of an innocent woman who dared to educate herself is ignorant, morally lazy, and childish.

I'm not saying that people who didn't who anything were bad but your still not justifying all those babies getting killed or anyone outside that capital city being slaughtered like Belmont or the Speakers...

Original Sin I guess?


If anything, I'd expect "you have one year to leave before I kill you all" to result in people digging in for the upcoming fight.

But Wallachia didn't even do that.

Presumably somewhere there's a monarch who utterly failed the country (if he isn't dead already).


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Hama wrote:
He's given them a freaking year to leave. A year.

He gave the people a year because he has to gather his army....which took a year.

And who knows if the Church was allowing people to leave...as people leaving would show a lack of faith in the Church...


Couldn't Dracula just kill all the Catholic bishops? They're all Chaotic Evil in this show, so I think getting rid of them would be the best first step to enlightening the masses. Dracula would be a badass teacher if gets pass this genocide phase.

Sovereign Court

Well tough. If a supernatural monster told me that he was going to kill me in a year unless I move, I'd get the hell out of Dodge church or no church.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:
Yes, Dracula is committing genocide for revenge. Is it wrong? Probably.

Dude, no. Genocide. Wrong. Pretty much by definition.

Quote:
But just because the people of Walachia are a passive evil makes them NO LESS EVIL and no less deserving of their fates.

First off, unless you want the infants of Walachia to roll their strollers in a march of protest, a lot of innocent people are being killed.

Second, its pretty clear that the church was maintaining control through a lot of armed thuggery. Every priest we saw but one, and there were a LOT of them, was sporting more weaponry than an adams family steak night. "Sorry lady, you MIGHT be innocent, but that stuff sure looked like sorcery to me and I'm not getting perforated over it" is pretty much the definition of neutral.

Third: she was charged with consorting with devils. She's draculas wife. Dracula can appear as his head in a burning pillar of fire and summon demons. The town isn't THAT far off. "No no no my husband does all the magic i'm pure SCIENCE!" is true, but its still a pretty unbeievable truth.

And burning a woman at the stake for being a witch ISNT "Stupid, morally (and intellectually I might add) lazy and childish?" PLEASE...


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I get the feeling that a lot of people are projecting their own modern day antipathy and negative personal feelings and opinions about religion and the religious in general onto this situation. :P

Sovereign Court

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More along the lines of "people are horrible"


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Watched all 4 episodes.
2 likable characters appear in the first, and I'm robbed of one within 10 minutes for pathos and the other is on screen as a silhouette for all of 5 seconds.

I found Trevor to be utterly unlikable until the last 10 minutes of the 4th episode. At that point, he upgraded from unlikable to just 'meh'.

I also thought the show was wildly and unnecessarily violent. One minute it's dudes punching each other and the next fingers and eyeballs are flapping free and taking up half the foreground shot. It just struck me as inconsistent and the show trying to be like Attack on Titan but falling short.

I hope it gets better, but I'm glad it was only 4 episodes. If it were any longer and it didn't improve any further, I'd feel like I'd wasted my time.


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Dal Selpher wrote:

Watched all 4 episodes.

2 likable characters appear in the first, and I'm robbed of one within 10 minutes for pathos and the other is on screen as a silhouette for all of 5 seconds.

I found Trevor to be utterly unlikable until the last 10 minutes of the 4th episode. At that point, he upgraded from unlikable to just 'meh'.

I also thought the show was wildly and unnecessarily violent. One minute it's dudes punching each other and the next fingers and eyeballs are flapping free and taking up half the foreground shot. It just struck me as inconsistent and the show trying to be like Attack on Titan but falling short.

I hope it gets better, but I'm glad it was only 4 episodes. If it were any longer and it didn't improve any further, I'd feel like I'd wasted my time.

mlp is down the hall, to the left. See you there.


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Delightful wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Delightful wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

It's absolutely understandable.

A small group decides to lynch a black man without due process. (Has actually happened) The entire town decides its a party (Has happened) shows up to watch and take pictures (Has happened). They're ALL CULPABLE. Even the one's who DON'T show up or don't speak up about it need to get got because their silence is CONSENT.

So yes, it's absolutely understandable that he'd want to reduce the town to a cinder.

It wasnt like one guy put a hit out on her, it was the recognized government/religion of that area that the people fully supported that allowed this to happen.

They all deserve to die.

His demons are also flat out killing babies too. The guy is genocidal he's and acting like a psychopathic bigot that needs to murder an entire nation of people to sate his revenge. That's not understandable, it's stupid, morally lazy, and childish.
no, ignoring the murder of an innocent woman who dared to educate herself is ignorant, morally lazy, and childish.

I'm not saying that people who didn't who anything were bad but your still not justifying all those babies getting killed or anyone outside that capital city being slaughtered like Belmont or the Speakers...

Original Sin I guess?

He gave them a time and date that he would return to slaughter them for reasons he stated openly after displaying abilities that showed he was quite capable of doing so.

They chose to ignore it.

That's on them.


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Zhangar wrote:
If anything, I'd expect "you have one year to leave before I kill you all" to result in people digging in for the upcoming fight.

That would have been interesting...

Belmont is a people's champion, leading the fight against the monster that threatened them.

Kinda cool.

I like this better though.


John Kretzer wrote:
Hama wrote:
He's given them a freaking year to leave. A year.

He gave the people a year because he has to gather his army....which took a year.

And who knows if the Church was allowing people to leave...as people leaving would show a lack of faith in the Church...

some exposition there would have been nice...


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:
Yes, Dracula is committing genocide for revenge. Is it wrong? Probably.

Dude, no. Genocide. Wrong. Pretty much by definition.

Quote:
But just because the people of Walachia are a passive evil makes them NO LESS EVIL and no less deserving of their fates.

First off, unless you want the infants of Walachia to roll their strollers in a march of protest, a lot of innocent people are being killed.

Second, its pretty clear that the church was maintaining control through a lot of armed thuggery. Every priest we saw but one, and there were a LOT of them, was sporting more weaponry than an adams family steak night. "Sorry lady, you MIGHT be innocent, but that stuff sure looked like sorcery to me and I'm not getting perforated over it" is pretty much the definition of neutral.

Third: she was charged with consorting with devils. She's draculas wife. Dracula can appear as his head in a burning pillar of fire and summon demons. The town isn't THAT far off. "No no no my husband does all the magic i'm pure SCIENCE!" is true, but its still a pretty unbeievable truth.

And burning a woman at the stake for being a witch ISNT "Stupid, morally (and intellectually I might add) lazy and childish?" PLEASE...

Adams family steak night...looooool

1. Drac gave them a time and date, then kept his word to the letter. The blood of the innocent is on the hands of the guilty.

2. That's not neutral. That's lawful neutral at best, lawful evil at worst.

3. Sounds like you would have been victim #8820 on the first day of slaughter.


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Quote:
But just because the people of Walachia are a passive evil makes them NO LESS EVIL and no less deserving of their fates.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
First off, unless you want the infants of Walachia to roll their strollers in a march of protest, a lot of innocent people are being killed.

Well then maybe, in regards to the children and babies the people responsible for thier well being should have been better people. It's along the lines of the mafia guys who are family men and will willingly kill other peoples wives and children but cry like babies when something happens to someone close to them. You can't inflict pain on other people and not expect some sort of blowback on you and those close to you.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Second, its pretty clear that the church was maintaining control through a lot of armed thuggery. Every priest we saw but one, and there were a LOT of them, was sporting more weaponry than an adams family steak night. "Sorry lady, you MIGHT be innocent, but that stuff sure looked like sorcery to me and I'm not getting perforated over it" is pretty much the definition of neutral.

I don't think that's neutral at all. Neutral might have been banishment. Neutral isnt "if it floats it's a witch!! burn her!!" That's straight up evil.

My point is this, people are only going to take so much crap before they start tooling up and fighting back. We saw that in the episode once it was revealed that the church was basically responsible for what was happening.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Third: she was charged with consorting with devils. She's draculas wife. Dracula can appear as his head in a burning pillar of fire and summon demons. The town isn't THAT far off. "No no no my husband does all the magic i'm pure SCIENCE!" is true, but its still a pretty unbeievable truth.

Yeahhhhhh, you kinda got me there. POINT.


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Just for the record: I CANT BELIEVE IM ACTUALLY ARGUING IN FAVOR OF DRACULA COMMITTING GENOCIDE.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:

Just for the record: I CANT BELIEVE IM ACTUALLY ARGUING IN FAVOR OF DRACULA COMMITTING GENOCIDE.

this isn't genocide. It's vengeance.


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I think a large part of his unfocused hate against humanity comes from hating himself right now.

If he hadn't been playing at being human, trying to know them, to understand them. If he hadn't been travelling the Slow Way, he would have been there. He could have protected her. He could have seen them for the monsters they truely are and stopped them before it was too late.

He likely feels that it's really his fault but he can't reconcile that so he turns all that hate against the thing that kept him from being there ... humanity.

that way he'll never be tempted to be like them ever again, he'll never be weak again and he'll never lose what is precious to him again.

Humanity reprisents his own weakness and failings, that's why they have to die


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Freehold DM wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

Just for the record: I CANT BELIEVE IM ACTUALLY ARGUING IN FAVOR OF DRACULA COMMITTING GENOCIDE.

this isn't genocide. It's vengeance.

thats really not an or thing

Paizo Employee Sales Associate

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Greylurker wrote:

I think a large part of his unfocused hate against humanity comes from hating himself right now.

If he hadn't been playing at being human, trying to know them, to understand them. If he hadn't been travelling the Slow Way, he would have been there. He could have protected her. He could have seen them for the monsters they truely are and stopped them before it was too late.

He likely feels that it's really his fault but he can't reconcile that so he turns all that hate against the thing that kept him from being there ... humanity.

that way he'll never be tempted to be like them ever again, he'll never be weak again and he'll never lose what is precious to him again.

Humanity represents his own weakness and failings, that's why they have to die

Emphasis mine. I think you're definitely on to something there.


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Freehold DM wrote:


1. Drac gave them a time and date, then kept his word to the letter. The blood of the innocent is on the hands of the guilty.

Lawful evil. Still evil.

Quote:
2. That's not neutral. That's lawful neutral at best, lawful evil at worst.

Not my problem is pretty much the definition of neutral.

Even good people might be unwilling to take on dozens of heavily armed and trained church militants in order to...

save someone that was quite literally consorting with darkness.

Quote:

3. Sounds like you would have been victim #8820 on the first day of slaughter.

Nope


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:


1. Drac gave them a time and date, then kept his word to the letter. The blood of the innocent is on the hands of the guilty.

Lawful evil. Still evil.

Quote:
2. That's not neutral. That's lawful neutral at best, lawful evil at worst.

Not my problem is pretty much the definition of neutral.

Even good people might be unwilling to take on dozens of heavily armed and trained church militants in order to...

save someone that was quite literally consorting with darkness.

Quote:

3. Sounds like you would have been victim #8820 on the first day of slaughter.

Nope

1. Never said he wasn't lawful evil . It's one of my favorite alignments for a reason.

2. All people have to do to allow evil a foothold is to stand aside and keep quiet.

Who said that again?

3. I died laughing. You are talking to my undead form now.

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