What character concepts do you have on the bench?


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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Pirate Rob wrote:
Is there anything else like that that's potentially problematic rather than just being a power level adjustment?

Just ran comparisons, and nope - everything else is fine. (There were only a couple that got reprinted anyway.)

Also, the vibrant purple prism's resonance actually got buffed - you can now rejuvenate up to three spell levels a day, rather than only a 1st-level spell. ^_^

Shadow Lodge

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Kalindlara wrote:
Also, the vibrant purple prism's resonance actually got buffed - you can now rejuvenate up to three spell levels a day, rather than only a 1st-level spell. ^_^

Fitting that the Ioun stone which most helps Martials gets gutted, while a caster specific stone got buffed.


What happened to Lore Warden?

4/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jack Rift wrote:
What happened to Lore Warden?

Raving Dork summed it up pretty well.

The Exchange

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Book of mandatory nerfs for $40.


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Thanks, yeah I'm not happy with this book, overall.

4/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Fixing bad writing is not fun for anyone involved. A lot of old material was really imbalanced. Lore Warden was an exceptionally powerful archetype of an otherwise underwhelming base class and, as such, it saw a lot of use. Items like the Clear Spindle became things that authors had to write around, resulting in bizarre encounters like Golemworks Incident's finale.

That said, I think the Clear Spindle change actually ends up being a buff in most cases because you can select alignments on it rather than being keyed to Prot from Evil and its caster level + spell means 2 hours of immunity of the same type that the old version granted while being relatively difficult to dispel. That's pretty huge. You can still use it as an immediate action to interrupt at the cost of the stone. The conversation I had with Jon on Friday night at PaizoCon really cemented the necessity of the ioun stone resonant power changes in my mind. While it's unfortunate that not every "must pick" feat or item can be fixed in one fell swoop (here's lookin' at you, Power Attack), this is still a step in the right direction.

Lastly, honing in on the reprint material completely glosses over the significant number of character options that are likely to be legal, including a barbarian archetype that can pick what totem they want as they start their rage, a mounted archery druid that aids other mounted combatants, a huge number of Magaambyan archetypes, probably the single most versatile skill-based prestige class in the game, and a ton of other things.

Dark Archive

Balance issues aside, this sets a dangerous precedent. As a college student on a budget who has been playing the game for years and has many characters using the clear spindle ioun stone along with various other options that have been reprinted or might have been reprinted with the book (I do not have access so I am concerned about a number of other ioun stones and other things) I do not like the idea of having to get a new book to access gutted versions of things that I have been using for years. From what I hear, I am probably going to forgo the book altogether since it is $40 for nothing that I want and many changes that I do not want. I just hope Paizo includes some note for those of us still using seeker of secrets that it can still be used and adapted, or ideally grandfathered. Failing that, I guess I am getting some gold refunded, I just hope someone makes easy note of what exactly is affected so that people without access to the new book know exactly how their existing characters are affected.

This is not the first time Paizo has done this, rewriting existing material and phasing out the old interpretation and bringing in the new one. The previous example that comes to mind is living monolith. The difference between the circumstances surrounding the living monolith's rewrite and this new book is that the living monolith is a relatively obscure prestige class and the rewrite brought it more visibility and arguably made it more viable, while in this case most society players were already aware of ioun stones and their interactions with wayfinders, and the rewrite gives you less reason to use the option.

Serisan, it is okay to note that the book adds material, but they used space in the book that could have been used for entirely new material to rewrite material that has been around since before I started playing with no problem. There is always going to be a best option to pick, and ioun stones were rarely that. In fact, I enjoy the fact that ioun stones give you a reason to pick something other than the big six with your money, even if it only diverts a little bit of your cash for a little bonus.

Shadow Lodge

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Serisan wrote:
Fixing bad writing is not fun for anyone involved. A lot of old material was really imbalanced. Lore Warden was an exceptionally powerful archetype of an otherwise underwhelming base class and, as such, it saw a lot of use. Items like the Clear Spindle became things that authors had to write around, resulting in bizarre encounters like Golemworks Incident's finale.

Serisan, you might have a point about "fixing bad writing" if Paizo hadn't also reprinted many, many terrible prestige classes and archetypes relatively unchanged. They didn't seem to be interested in fixing anything, so much as finding the things people liked using, and then working them over with a sledge hammer.

Sure, Lore Warden may have been more powerful than base Fighter (widely considered to be the 3rd worse class in the game), for a narrow subset of builds. But so what? How many posts are there on the forums begging for a Lore Warden nerf? How many adventures have been derailed by free combat expertise and a scaling bonus to CMB that allows maneuver builds to remain relevant in the double digits?

The Clear Spindle Ioun Stone is a much more contentious point, and I'll concede that designing encounters around it can be a pain, but I'd also say it's a necessary evil. The stone keeps characters with poor will saves (the classes which are already the weakest in the game) playable past a certain point. It also prevents players from being completely taken out of a fight (forced to sit doing nothing) due to 1 botched roll.

No amount of new material (despite some of it being very good!) should cover for Paizo's protracted war upon things players enjoy using. That's why this book is, rightly, being slammed.

4/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ARGH! wrote:

Balance issues aside, this sets a dangerous precedent. As a college student on a budget who has been playing the game for years and has many characters using the clear spindle ioun stone along with various other options that have been reprinted or might have been reprinted with the book (I do not have access so I am concerned about a number of other ioun stones and other things) I do not like the idea of having to get a new book to access gutted versions of things that I have been using for years. From what I hear, I am probably going to forgo the book altogether since it is $40 for nothing that I want and many changes that I do not want. I just hope Paizo includes some note for those of us still using seeker of secrets that it can still be used and adapted, or ideally grandfathered. Failing that, I guess I am getting some gold refunded, I just hope someone makes easy note of what exactly is affected so that people without access to the new book know exactly how their existing characters are affected.

This is not the first time Paizo has done this, rewriting existing material and phasing out the old interpretation and bringing in the new one. The previous example that comes to mind is living monolith. The difference between the circumstances surrounding the living monolith's rewrite and this new book is that the living monolith is a relatively obscure prestige class and the rewrite brought it more visibility and arguably made it more viable, while in this case most society players were already aware of ioun stones and their interactions with wayfinders, and the rewrite gives you less reason to use the option.

Serisan, it is okay to note that the book adds material, but they used space in the book that could have been used for entirely new material to rewrite material that has been around since before I started playing with no problem. There is always going to be a best option to pick, and ioun stones were rarely that. In fact, I enjoy the fact that ioun stones give you a reason to pick something other than the big six with your money, even if it only diverts a little bit of your cash for a little bonus.

I think it's fair to say that the FAQrata of Ultimate Equipment and the ACG are other examples of significant changes that quite literally took the floor out from under the player base. My psychic was getting ready for Eyes of the Ten as the errata came out in that case (literally was level 12 and first scenario of it was a week or two after the changes) and had a HUGE portion of my wealth suddenly refunded. Yes, I agree that there will always be a "best in slot" item, but the question should always be centered around the value of the item relative to the budget and items should not have grossly disproportionate values. Hashing out an old example, the Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier had several different models it could be priced at and it added 1-2 digits to the price to do so "correctly." As much as the new version is reviled by the community at large, it's more appropriate to the listed price point.

I understand your concern about the cost of the book relative to the benefits it provides. I remember trying to afford books on unemployed-with-a-baby-on-the-way budget. I can safely say that it's at least worth the price of the PDF, assuming Jon's statement about the "very permissive" AR comes to pass.

Disk Elemental wrote:

Serisan, you might have a point about "fixing bad writing" if Paizo hadn't also reprinted many, many terrible prestige classes and archetypes relatively unchanged. They didn't seem to be interested in fixing anything, so much as finding the things people liked using, and then working them over with a sledge hammer.

Sure, Lore Warden may have been more powerful than base Fighter (widely considered to be the 3rd worse class in the game), for a narrow subset of builds. But so what? How many posts are there on the forums begging for a Lore Warden nerf? How many adventures have been derailed by free combat expertise and a scaling bonus to CMB that allows maneuver builds to remain relevant in the double digits?

The Clear Spindle Ioun Stone is a much more contentious point, and I'll concede that designing encounters around it can be a pain, but I'd also say it's a necessary evil. The stone keeps characters with poor will saves (the classes which are already the weakest in the game) playable past a certain point. It also prevents players from being completely taken out of a fight (forced to sit doing nothing) due to 1 botched roll.

No amount of new material (despite some of it being very good!) should cover for Paizo's protracted war upon things players enjoy using. That's why this book is, rightly, being slammed.

I'll be the first to say that this was my reaction initially as well. A pet peeve of mine is that the Warpriest currently needs to take Arcane Armor Training to qualify for Signifer because they don't qualify for Warrior Priest. I even brought this up during the AG Q&A panel at PaizoCon, which resulted in a very lively response from Jon Compton, Jessica Price, and James Jacobs.

Re: the Clear Spindle in particular, I can safely say that across all of my characters, it has resulted in fewer prevented issues than Animal Soul (which was actually already errata'd and I don't foresee it being changed again). This is including a level 17 melee with a total +14 Will save, a level 16 archer with +17, a level 20 caster with +26, a level 11 arcane trickster with +11, and many more. The only respectable Will save in the bunch is the caster, and he was defended in other ways, too. Across all of them, in all of their scenarios, modules, and APs, they've had 2 or 3 times that the Clear Spindle came into play. In the 108 tables of credit that I've GM'd, I've seen approximately the same results and I primarily GM 7+. I can say with absolute certainty that the character folio reroll has resulted in more saves against critical effects for me than the Clear Spindle.

The new version doesn't even stop it from functioning the same. It just requires more foresight to activate a 2 hour buff.

I agree with the principle statement that you make, though - I was very displeased to see the reprints, particularly the ones with no edits made. In an already small hardcover, that's frustrating. The counterpoint that Jon brought up, which I'm willing to accept, is that printing these options in the "rules" line makes them eligible for the PRD (whenever that gets updated), which means less page space in scenarios to use the options in the book. It creates a significantly larger pool of potential NPCs and enemies for us to interact with going forward. As to the "war on fun," I can understand that point of view, but I would caution that a lot of the changed options were not designed in a well-balanced fashion. There are still core issues to the game that I think are relatively intractable, especially out of the CRB. From a design perspective, those are most likely going to see more permanent resolution via Starfinder, where they aren't tied to the legacy baggage issue. Based on the preview info I saw at PaizoCon, they have a lot better handle on those core problems in that system. For Pathfinder, there's some triage to handle a few problem options, but by and large the system requires a different approach. While I dislike some things about how this is being implemented, I got a lot better feel for the situation in talking with Jon, Mark, and others at PaizoCon and, as such, feel a lot more comfortable about the direction.

Dark Archive

My concern was less about the price point and if it is worth it. From here on out, I need to consider my purchases very carefully and for the time being dropping $40 on one pathfinder book at all is out of the question. My concern is that it might alter my ability to utilize material that I previously had access to.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

/hmm..
Hafling 'Slinger type. Either a straight up fighter or a warpriest.
Calistran whip wielding warpriest..
Havocker Witch with conductive reach weapon
Alchemist with explosive missle and the wrist launcher from Ullt In. (LOTS of slight of hand)
Halfling Bastard Sword fighter (after the fun I had with one in carrion crown)
Gunsling Warpiest (Call me.. Pritcher Mann.... think Pale Rider)
The 'Know it all'.. some sort of Knowledge based caster.. Lots of skill focus/feats

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Serisan wrote:
Fixing bad writing is not fun for anyone involved. A lot of old material was really imbalanced. Lore Warden was an exceptionally powerful archetype of an otherwise underwhelming base class and, as such, it saw a lot of use.

I understand the argument that ATs should not be more powerful than their base classes, but the problem with the Lore Warden gutting was twofold. One, let's count the number of times I've said, "Wow, I have a fighter in my group - today is going to suck as I have nothing to do". Two, let's count the number of times I thought, "Wow, a lore warden, what an over powered option that makes this game entirely unfun as a player!"

I've yet to get beyond zero.

Choices/space could have been utilized to fix other issues, but instead this was the choice in a book that was already 80% recycled material. Not happy.

I haven't even addressed the fact that the Student of War prestige class that was released originally with the Lore Warden now no longer gets its Combat Expertise if you go in at its qualifying level (level 5).

So we enhance/keep options for the intensified spell, keen scimitar magus, but ruin one of the only options for fighter that was fun for people that didn't want a 2 skill point for level beat stick. Yay?

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

To be honest, I've been struggling to come up with character concepts that feel unique that can hit the fine line balancing act of feeling useful/competent without making people at the table think, "ugh, another scimitar magus". As a result, most of my latest ideas have been using copious use of multi-classing.

Right now I have nothing on deck for Pathfinder, and that kinda worries me. Hopefully Starfinder will get the creative juices going again.

Shadow Lodge

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Serisan wrote:
Re: the Clear Spindle in particular, I can safely say that across all of my characters, it has resulted in fewer prevented issues than Animal Soul

Across nearly 20 PCs, 4 of them in seeker tiers, the Spindle has only come into play 4-5 times. Mostly on effects the character is likely to have made the save on anyway. However, had my PCs not made the saves, it is very likely someone would have died.

I've GM'd close to 150 tables, and across all of those I've seen the Spindle do much more good than harm; and I've seen the lack of a Spindle result in:

1. 3 PC deaths, following a successful dominate on a particularly powerful Swashbuckler.

2. 2 PC deaths due to repeated Murderous Commands on a Barbarian

3. A player being out of the rest of scenario, after their Wizard with Teleport was suggested to "Get as far away from this place as possible"

4. A player doing nothing for a four hour combat, because of a Round 1 dominate.

5. Many, many players sitting out for combats because of Suggestions to sit on their hands.

These things are not fun for the players. In the first two cases, the situation actively punished less than optimized players for playing with more experienced people. As someone who enjoys building powerful characters, the Clear Spindle is my insurance policy. It means that no player will ever lose a PC just because I built a character more powerful than theirs. I may be in the minority on this, but as a GM, I am okay with rarely getting to stick powerful enchantments on the party, in exchange for that insurance.

Serisan wrote:
The new version doesn't even stop it from functioning the same. It just requires more foresight to activate a 2 hour buff.

Unless the Spindle as specific text, it's a 12 minute buff, as protection from Alignment only lasts 1 minute/level. Foresight alone doesn't allow it to replace the original.

Serisan wrote:
The counterpoint that Jon brought up, which I'm willing to accept, is that printing these options in the "rules" line makes them eligible for the PRD.

That's certainly a valid reason, but it hardly makes the $40 pill any easier to swallow. On the flipside, since these things are now in a hardcover, this means we will never see them fixed. Signifer is forever painful for Warpriests, Aldori Swordlord is forever a terrible archetype, and so on. Paizo is a major player in the industry, with access to an unprecedented amounts of freelancer support, this kind of laziness isn't something we should support or make excuses for.

Serisan wrote:
As to the "war on fun," I can understand that point of view, but I would caution that a lot of the changed options were not designed in a well-balanced fashion.

I guess this just comes down to differences in what "well-balanced" means. I don't consider something unbalanced unless it allows a single PC to vastly overshadow their party. I.E. something that isn't fun for the party as a whole.

The systemic issues you've brought up are actually what makes this entire situation truly baffling. Why is Paizo wasting energy/time/money nerfing things like Lore Warden, things which will never be powerful in this system simply due to the design conventions?

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Disk Elemental wrote:


These things are not fun for the players. In the first two cases, the situation actively punished less than optimized players for playing with more experienced people. As someone who enjoys building powerful characters, the Clear Spindle is my insurance policy. It means that no player will ever lose a PC just because I built a character more powerful than theirs. I may be in the minority on this, but as a GM, I am okay with rarely getting to stick powerful enchantments on the party, in exchange for that insurance.

Wouldn't it just be better to focus on the fact that your Will save is potentially crappy than relying on a crutch? Its not like the list of things that the Clear Spindle is irrelevant for would be just as devastating and probably far more common.


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I'm toying with the idea of a Grey Maiden Paladin after having read the Adventurer's Guide, but I am still unsure.
I love the fluff for a Paladin but I've also seen a lot of cool new feats and I'm considering too the idea of making her a sword and board Fighter so I can get more feats.
I don't care about my character being OP as long as it's effective, and I really like the concepts I have in mind. Now I just have to take some decissions.
I don't make a lot of characters as I favor long stories rather than short ones, so I am very careful when I create a new character.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Disk Elemental wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Re: the Clear Spindle in particular, I can safely say that across all of my characters, it has resulted in fewer prevented issues than Animal Soul
Across nearly 20 PCs, 4 of them in seeker tiers, the Spindle has only come into play 4-5 times. ...

Ok, I missed my save now and feel the need to respond here...

Across 33 PCs, 4 of them in seeker tiers, I personally don't actually have one with a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone... Not even one.

I sort of needed one once... kinda, sorta?

My Seeker Bard without a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone:

I have a (Bard) "Face" PC who is very good at what she does, but she has almost no combat abilities. (Most of the people at the table know her as my Chalaixian Whip using "lady of the evening"). She OWNS face skills, and she can really buff, but she has never actually done a HP of damage to anything other than herself (Confusion Effects "hit Self"). I'm careful to tell this to everyone at the table when I sit down and we go thru introductions. And she actually contributes greatly to any group she's in...
.
Anyway, in the middle of a nasty encounter, the bad guys start tossing out Dominate Persons. Three saves later (plus one reroll) my lady is dominated and told to attack another PC.

Judge "Do you have a weapon?"
Me "She's got a silvered spiked gauntlet - but it's really more like jewelry. It only does 1d4-1. OH! And her whips - though those are more 'day job tools'...".
Judge "That's it? No other weapons?"
Me looking down at my character sheet trying to come up with something "Wait! I've got a dagger written down here on my Combat section, so I must have one someplace ..." flipping thru sheets in the folder to find my equipment sheets. "Yeah! here it is! I've got a dagger! I bought it when I was first level. It must be in my pack someplace ..." I get an image of this lady digging in a shoulder bag muttering something about - "I know it's in here someplace...".

All this while the Tank in the party is doing 50+ HP around the corner and out of sight of these Bad Guys. (I guess he must have had a C.S.I.O.).

So she takes a couple swings at a friend with her dagger (and the Bad Guys take AOOs at her), with everyone cringing with me - afraid that I'm going to hit somebody and spoil her "perfect record" and do actual damage to someone!

Then a few rounds later and the Halfling Life Oracle in the party get's dominated and announces that he is even MORE combat useless than my harlot. "I've got a spear on my back, but I only do a 1d4-2..."

Tank in the next room - "76 points of damage with the crit..."

Talk about a polarized party.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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When the first words out of one GM was 'Now I've got you' with my low Will save PC, I have gone with things like the spindle for a reason (along with Iron Will, a scroll of Suppress C&C, Seducer's Bane). The reason being five scenarios in a row getting charmed, dominated or suggested into beating the party bard to death.

The net result is my character's +2 Dueling Glamored Adamantine Bastard Sword being called 'Bard Beater' and the GM having 5 bards recognize me in one module as the beater of bards on three continents.

While humorous, two of those fights had the potential of my dirty fighting tower shield specialist killing the entire party. I don't hit hard but AC 30+ makes it hard for some characters to restrain/distract me. To date, three MW instruments have died @ 'Bard Beater's' blade.

So, yeah I think some scenarios have bad writing where it comes to 'let's dominate the fighter and have her kill you all'

Scarab Sages 4/5

I think I have a clear spindle on two characters. One for sure, because despite having a good Will save, he's failed against harpies three times, once leading to a CdG, and once almost leading to death. It was after that third one I finally broke down and bought it, only to have the next GM insist protection from evil doesn't work again harpies. (Not looking to argue that point. That there is an argument about that, and other spells/effects, is, itself, one of the reasons I dislike having the item. I never know when it's going to actually work against the things I'd be buying it to prevent). The other character is a ninja with ridiculously bad saves, because ninja, who got dominated by a succubus and nearly killed the party sorcerer (despite being a ninja, at 9th level for that scenario she could deal somewhere around 120 damage a round). Both characters are in Seeker levels now, so it's not likely I'll be playing them that often.

Otherwise, I've been concentrating more on boosting will saves so it's less of an issue.

Two things about this, though. It makes the talismans more attractive, and I'm not a fan of 5,000gp expendables that don't involve Raise Dead or multiple uses (see the Jingasa change). I hope that trend doesn't continue.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5

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WHY HAS NO ONE DECRIED THE WORST CHANGE IN THE BOOK?! THUNDERLIPS! IS NOW -6 TO AC WITH CHANGE TO TRIBAL SCARS.

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! AN INJUSTICE! THIS IS BOUT DRAWING A LINE IN THE SAND UPON WHICH YOUDONOTCROSS!

THUNDERLIPS! HAS FAITH IN THE HIGHER THAN CAPTAIN DEVELOPER (THUNDERLIPS! STILL NOT MAKE ANY ADMITTEDLY SMALL UNDERSTANDING OF THIS...) JOHN COMPTON WILL RECTIFY THIS SLANDEROUS ANTI-MAMMOTH CLAN BIAS.

#ULFENHITPOINTSMATTER

4/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Disk Elemental wrote:


Serisan wrote:
The new version doesn't even stop it from functioning the same. It just requires more foresight to activate a 2 hour buff.
Unless the Spindle as specific text, it's a 12 minute buff, as protection from Alignment only lasts 1 minute/level. Foresight alone doesn't allow it to replace the original.

Guess who had Magic Circle on the brain instead of Protection? That said, you can still do the "burn out" immediate action version.

Quote:
That's certainly a valid reason, but it hardly makes the $40 pill any easier to swallow. On the flipside, since these things are now in a hardcover, this means we will never see them fixed. Signifer is forever painful for Warpriests, Aldori Swordlord is forever a terrible archetype, and so on. Paizo is a major player in the industry, with access to an unprecedented amounts of freelancer support, this kind of laziness isn't something we should support or make excuses for.

Putting them in the Rules line means that they actually can get errata/FAQ support, unlike literally any other product line. That said, yeah, I'm not hopeful about the Signifer thing based on what I heard.

Scarab Sages

Disk Elemental wrote:


I've GM'd close to 150 tables, and across all of those I've seen the Spindle do much more good than harm; and I've seen the lack of a Spindle result in:

1. 3 PC deaths, following a successful dominate on a particularly powerful Swashbuckler.

2. 2 PC deaths due to repeated Murderous Commands on a Barbarian

3. A player being out of the rest of scenario, after their Wizard with Teleport was suggested to "Get as far away from this place as possible"

4. A player doing nothing for a four hour combat, because of a Round 1 dominate.

5. Many, many players sitting out for combats because of Suggestions to sit on their hands.

Does seem kinda humorous that the overarching theme here is that the victim players had a character in their party that failed a will save to a mind afffecting effect...

The Exchange 5/5 5/5

Serisan wrote:
Disk Elemental wrote:


That's certainly a valid reason, but it hardly makes the $40 pill any easier to swallow. On the flipside, since these things are now in a hardcover, this means we will never see them fixed. Signifer is forever painful for Warpriests, Aldori Swordlord is forever a terrible archetype, and so on. Paizo is a major player in the industry, with access to an unprecedented amounts of freelancer support, this kind of laziness isn't something we should support or make excuses for.
Putting them in the Rules line means that they actually can get errata/FAQ support, unlike literally any other product line. That said, yeah, I'm not hopeful about the Signifer thing based on what I heard.

this news to Taco...

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Ferious Thune wrote:

Two things about this, though. It makes the talismans more attractive, and I'm not a fan of 5,000gp expendables that don't involve Raise Dead or multiple uses (see the Jingasa change). I hope that trend doesn't continue.

Wait which talisman are you talking because the ones Im finding for mind affecting would cost 1800GP for a set of three? Even the whole come back from the dead automatically one isn't as expensive.

Scarab Sages 4/5

The lesser Pentacle talisman is 600gp (probably what you're looking at). It lets you reroll a failed save against a charm or compulsion, and then is destroyed. It also casts protection from evil on you if you make that second save. The Ioun stone is 4,000 gold and let's you cast protection from evil as an immediate action once and then is destroyed (or cast 1/day ahead of time, but I'm looking at the expendable part of it).

The Greater Pentacle talisman costs 6,000 gold and let's you reroll a save vs a charm or compulsion once per day and is not destroyed. So for 2,000 gold more, you can have a reusable talisman that grants a reroll instead of a one time use item that auto succeeds.

Dark Archive

Ferious Thune wrote:

The lesser Pentacle talisman is 600gp (probably what you're looking at). It lets you reroll a failed save against a charm or compulsion, and then is destroyed. It also casts protection from evil on you if you make that second save. The Ioun stone is 4,000 gold and let's you cast protection from evil as an immediate action once and then is destroyed (or cast 1/day ahead of time, but I'm looking at the expendable part of it).

The Greater Pentacle talisman costs 6,000 gold and let's you reroll a save vs a charm or compulsion once per day and is not destroyed. So for 2,000 gold more, you can have a reusable talisman that grants a reroll instead of a one time use item that auto succeeds.

Which also takes up a slot that is normally occupied by one of the big six magic items. I was also under the impression that the talisman is not PFS legal. There is also the cap of the free thinker in the head slot for 12000 gold, which lets you reroll a failed save vs a mind affecting effect once per day, which may be the best option here.

1/5

I've been tinkering on and off on a Kitsune Mysterious Stranger/some other class that profits from high CHA en DEX, like sorcerer, but timing the classes is tricky...Go full five levels, and than switch, and stick to selfbuffing spells only because at level 6 all your damage spells do bupkis.

A nagaji druid with Naga Aspirant, but I just don't get druids, and that's why I'm exited for the new shifter class

I had a dwarf Tortured Crusader who lost his lower jaw, which got replaced with an prosthetic, and he now is forever beardless, but Woran liked that idea so much...

4/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ARGH! wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:

The lesser Pentacle talisman is 600gp (probably what you're looking at). It lets you reroll a failed save against a charm or compulsion, and then is destroyed. It also casts protection from evil on you if you make that second save. The Ioun stone is 4,000 gold and let's you cast protection from evil as an immediate action once and then is destroyed (or cast 1/day ahead of time, but I'm looking at the expendable part of it).

The Greater Pentacle talisman costs 6,000 gold and let's you reroll a save vs a charm or compulsion once per day and is not destroyed. So for 2,000 gold more, you can have a reusable talisman that grants a reroll instead of a one time use item that auto succeeds.

Which also takes up a slot that is normally occupied by one of the big six magic items. I was also under the impression that the talisman is not PFS legal. There is also the cap of the free thinker in the head slot for 12000 gold, which lets you reroll a failed save vs a mind affecting effect once per day, which may be the best option here.

The pentacle talisman is legal. Per AR for Horror Adventures:

Quote:
Equipment: All items in this book is legal for play except black heart, crimson altar, dark lens altar, sacrificial dagger, screaming blade, and all torture implements; the only available plague powder imparts filth fever.

1/5

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Also, woran forbids me to play a dwarf because I give them an Australian accent

Scarab Sages 4/5

Re the Talismans... I didn't say they became an automatic choice, just that they become a more attractive choice. Remember that you can wear three talismans at once, so it's taking up 1/3 of the slot (sort of). The Clear Spindle also effectively takes a slot (wayfinder) that you can't put something else in.

It is a fair point that the Pentacle talismans are probably most useful for a martial, and a martial is most likely to want the amulet of natural armor. But I have several characters that haven't bothered with that one. My Seeker Sorcerer mentioned above that has the Clear Spindle never bothered to by more than a +1 natural armor amulet. I'll replace that with three talismans no problem.

So anyway, no, the talismans aren't as good as the clear spindle used to be. But I'm more likely to use the talismans now that the clear spindle is effectively a one use item. That's all I'm saying.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Hawkshaw wrote:
Also, woran forbids me to play a dwarf because I give them an Australian accent

What's wrong with that ? Boom Stick sounds like Jack Sparrow on a 3 day bender.. which is suitable since he is on a 3 day bender whenever Osprey/Drendle find him to go off into 'Hells Armpit'1 to do terrible things in social circumstances.

1: 'Hell's Armpit being any location that is below 3000 ft above sea level, or in more recent examples the Plane of Fire.

1/5

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Borgin 'Boom Stick' McCracken wrote:
What's wrong with that ?

Because of the reason behind it. I give my dwarves an australian accent because they're from "Down Under, mate"

BADUM TISSH

Meanwhile I got to play my Tortured Crusader, but changed the race to tengu, and called him Ill Omen

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

Hawkshaw wrote:
Borgin 'Boom Stick' McCracken wrote:
What's wrong with that ?

Because of the reason behind it. I give my dwarves an australian accent because they're from "Down Under, mate"

BADUM TISSH

Meanwhile I got to play my Tortured Crusader, but changed the race to tengu, and called him Ill Omen

Sounds ominous.. ...

<rimshot>

Silver Crusade

Hawkshaw wrote:

Meanwhile I got to play my Tortured Crusader, but changed the race to tengu, and called him Ill Omen

Well, if you're going to name a PC after a spell, how about...

1. A paladin named Protection From Evil
2. A fighter named Lead Blades
3. A halfling named Reduced Person
4. A barbarian named Rage
5. A Milani worshiper named Resistance
6. A kineticist named Meteor Swarm
7. An inquisitor named Fear
8. A gnome pryomaniac named Faerie Fire

I'll just stop there... this could go on for a while.

4/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

We already have a local investigator named Perception Check.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

I think its a pun on the fact that ravens were considered an ill omen.

The Exchange 5/5

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Wait, is this like the 2HW fighter with the two greatswords, the Cold Iron one named "Diplomacy", and the Adamantine one named "Disable Device".

Barbarian to the Talker PC: "Do you want me to try Diplomacy now?"

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5

The Ledford wrote:

Wait, is this like the 2HW fighter with the two greatswords, the Cold Iron one named "Diplomacy", and the Adamantine one named "Disable Device".

Barbarian to the Talker PC: "Do you want me to try Diplomacy now?"

I like yer name mister.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere aka Rei

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Antti is a very mundane Finnish male name. The temptation to make a paladin named that has been quite notable at times.

Scarab Sages

For the list of benched character concepts.

A counterspelling caster, just a tough character concept to flesh out.

5/5 Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht aka Quentin Coldwater

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I'm still toying with the idea of a Grey Paladin/Druid multiclass, because Grey Paladin allows for a Neutral alignment. I'm just tickled by the idea of an octopus yelling out "SMITE EVIL!" and then thwapping the enemy with all its tentacles. The only downside is that I really have to spread my stats around and I'll probably have to dump DEX, and Wildshaping absorbs my armour. Skinshifter and Goliath Druid fix that, but Goliath Druid gets his Wildshape at level 6, probably way too late into my build. Then again, I can also shift into a Derro that can Smite Evil, which is fun in its own right. Still comes online way too late, though.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Enjoying the good ideas here. These are my characters that are in line for 3xp:
Grippli Spiritualist: A grippli that is haunted by a dead pathfinder, the pathfinder phantom will be the more dominant personality of the duo.
Were-ratkit Skinwalker Magus: Thinking of making him a bad person, corrupt and selfish and the worst of the Society. Been joking around with the local lodge about making a group of non-nice characters.
Shadowdancer Vital Striker: Going to be waiting for a while because I just started a Vital Strike barbarian.
Far Strike Monk riding a flying mount: It is feat intensive and high in cheese, not sure how to make it happen.
Two Weapon Fighting Fighter: Core fighter, no archetypes.

Scarab Sages

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Quentin Coldwater wrote:
I'm just tickled by the idea of an octopus yelling out "SMITE EVIL!" and then thwapping the enemy with all its tentacles.

Terrible TV show, but there's this great scene in Brickleberry where one of the characters is being chased by an "Octopus Mime." Wonderful scene.

Grand Lodge 3/5

I was planning a halfling ranger wielding a katana for a core campaign, but Katana isn't core... so, i'm half contemplating this build for PFS.

Scarab Sages

Selvaxri wrote:

I was planning a halfling ranger wielding a katana for a core campaign, but Katana isn't core... so, i'm half contemplating this build for PFS.

A Scimitar is pretty close, and is CORE. That Elven Curved Sword is a better weapon, assuming a Dex Build, though that weapon does require two hands.

5/5

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The character idea that I'm most excited to play is a grippli vigilante (faceless enforcer) who dual-wields kukris. The idea of a very small hellknight whirling around with 4 inch blades amuses me too much.

Silver Crusade

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Mike Lindner wrote:
The character idea that I'm most excited to play is a grippli vigilante (faceless enforcer) who dual-wields kukris. The idea of a very small hellknight whirling around with 4 inch blades amuses me too much.

My grippli character is a Fiend Keeper Medium. I just love the fluff on that archetype. Given the dex bonus, str penalty, and small size, I was originally thinking TWF finesse build, too. But I actually changed my mind and decided to go strength based with a two handed weapon, after doing the math to make sure it would work. But my class gives enough bonuses to make up for only having 14 str. I don't know how (or if) that would work out for a vigilante.

I love the grippli race. I actually have two more grippli boons (I GMed in two local conventions and a PBP game day in the same 3 month period). I was thinking of giving/trading them away, but I think I'll keep at least one of them to make a second grippli for myself.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

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Willikins-Like Character (Diskworld): A relatively skilled character that uses improvised weapons or dirty fighting. Maybe a member of the Sovereign Count that is tending to the affairs of his master back in Absalom.

5/5

Fromper wrote:

My grippli character is a Fiend Keeper Medium. I just love the fluff on that archetype. Given the dex bonus, str penalty, and small size, I was originally thinking TWF finesse build, too. But I actually changed my mind and decided to go strength based with a two handed weapon, after doing the math to make sure it would work. But my class gives enough bonuses to make up for only having 14 str. I don't know how (or if) that would work out for a vigilante.

I love the grippli race. I actually have two more grippli boons (I GMed in two local conventions and a PBP game day in the same 3 month period). I was thinking of giving/trading them away, but I think I'll keep at least one of them to make a second grippli for myself.

That's a really cool archetype. There are so many great grippli characters a person can make.

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