paizo.com Recent Posts in Hellknights and Jade Regentpaizo.com Recent Posts in Hellknights and Jade Regent2017-05-15T19:03:06Z2017-05-15T19:03:06ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentZhangarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#112017-06-09T22:21:29Z2017-06-01T16:43:34Z<p>The Order of the Scourge would be an <i>excellent</i> fit for Jade Regent - helping an empress retake her throne from a psychotic usurper who horribly abuses his power would be right up their alley.</p>
<p>Your only real stretch is a Hellknight armiger being in Sandpoint in the first place, unless he's just passing through when things start going to pot. The armiger would probably pitch in to settle the goblin trouble and investigate Brinewall Castle if there's another implied threat to the town's safety; after the big reveal at Brinewall, any Hellknight of the Scourge fit to wear the armor would be on board all the way to the end.</p>
<p>The GM should probably add a Hellknight NPC at the capital city on Book 2 to facilitate the Trial, though.</p>
<p>The PrC is optional, but the Trial is not.</p>
<p>After that, your Hellknight should be good to Judge Dredd all over the Five Storms.</p>
<p>Edit: Random thought - a Godclaw travelling to Minkai may well conclude that Shizuru and Susumu are additional facets of the Godclaw, and act accordingly.</p>The Order of the Scourge would be an excellent fit for Jade Regent - helping an empress retake her throne from a psychotic usurper who horribly abuses his power would be right up their alley.
Your only real stretch is a Hellknight armiger being in Sandpoint in the first place, unless he's just passing through when things start going to pot. The armiger would probably pitch in to settle the goblin trouble and investigate Brinewall Castle if there's another implied threat to the town's safety;...Zhangar2017-06-01T16:43:34ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentTacticslionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#102017-05-16T23:28:59Z2017-05-16T23:28:59Z<p>Man, I kind of super want to play a character based off of both Orders of Chain and Gate, now... Godclaw... and Nail... and Scar... and Torrent... and Scales... and Sewer/Flame... and Angel...</p>
<p>DANG it! They can't all be the same character... :/</p>Man, I kind of super want to play a character based off of both Orders of Chain and Gate, now... Godclaw... and Nail... and Scar... and Torrent... and Scales... and Sewer/Flame... and Angel...
DANG it! They can't all be the same character... :/Tacticslion2017-05-16T23:28:59ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentTacticslionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#92017-05-16T23:25:03Z2017-05-16T23:25:03Z<p>Even better! :D</p>Even better! :DTacticslion2017-05-16T23:25:03ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade Regentzimmerwald1915https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#82017-05-25T13:15:03Z2017-05-16T22:38:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tacticslion wrote:</div><blockquote><p>I am not suuuuuuuuuuper-knowledgeable of the AP, but I know a lot about some parts of it, and am loosely planning on running it, so I might be able to help somewhat.</p>
<p>The Order of the Torrent
<br />
An Order scattered across Avistan with a reputation for not ever having evil members? This is nearly perfect.</blockquote><p>I dunno, given this Order's especial purpose, and the preponderance of certain recurring events in the AP, this one might be just a <i>little</i> on the nose.Tacticslion wrote:I am not suuuuuuuuuuper-knowledgeable of the AP, but I know a lot about some parts of it, and am loosely planning on running it, so I might be able to help somewhat.
The Order of the Torrent
An Order scattered across Avistan with a reputation for not ever having evil members? This is nearly perfect.
I dunno, given this Order's especial purpose, and the preponderance of certain recurring events in the AP, this one might be just a little on the nose.zimmerwald19152017-05-16T22:38:38ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentYakmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#72017-05-16T21:37:31Z2017-05-16T19:27:14Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tacticslion wrote:</div><blockquote><p> As noted above, <a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Hellknights" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hellknights are predominantly lawful, not evil</a>. </p>
<p>Hellknights are, at their core, all about bringing order to chaos. And there is a <i>ton</i> of room to do that in Jade Regent! <i>Especially</i> since "chaos" doesn't necessarily mean, "Run by chaotic people." but rather, "Not following the proper way of things." (for a given definition of "proper" that actually is unique to the Hellknight mindset).</p>
<p>I am not suuuuuuuuuuper-knowledgeable of the AP, but I know a lot about some parts of it, and am loosely planning on running it, so I might be able to help somewhat.</p>
<p>Before we do anything else, let's just acknowledge that few official orders actually exist in Varisia, and being a Hellknight from level one is... tough, at best, given the entry requirements of defeating a devil single-handed in a manner witnessed by a Hellknight. </p>
<p>How to handle this? </p>
<p>Well, one idea is starting with a before-the-game "special event" for that player. </p>
<p>•• spoiler omitted ••... </blockquote><p>nice post. lots of good advice.Tacticslion wrote:As noted above, Hellknights are predominantly lawful, not evil.
Hellknights are, at their core, all about bringing order to chaos. And there is a ton of room to do that in Jade Regent! Especially since "chaos" doesn't necessarily mean, "Run by chaotic people." but rather, "Not following the proper way of things." (for a given definition of "proper" that actually is unique to the Hellknight mindset).
I am not suuuuuuuuuuper-knowledgeable of the AP, but I know a lot about...Yakman2017-05-16T19:27:14ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentTacticslionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#62017-05-25T13:14:48Z2017-05-16T18:00:22Z<p>As noted above, <a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Hellknights" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hellknights are predominantly lawful, not evil</a>. </p>
<p>Hellknights are, at their core, all about bringing order to chaos. And there is a <i>ton</i> of room to do that in Jade Regent! <i>Especially</i> since "chaos" doesn't necessarily mean, "Run by chaotic people." but rather, "Not following the proper way of things." (for a given definition of "proper" that actually is unique to the Hellknight mindset).</p>
<p>I am not suuuuuuuuuuper-knowledgeable of the AP, but I know a lot about some parts of it, and am loosely planning on running it, so I might be able to help somewhat.</p>
<p>Before we do anything else, let's just acknowledge that few official orders actually exist in Varisia, and being a Hellknight from level one is... tough, at best, given the entry requirements of defeating a devil single-handed in a manner witnessed by a Hellknight. </p>
<p>How to handle this? </p>
<p>Well, one idea is starting with a before-the-game "special event" for that player. </p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>With that in mind, let's look at how some of the various Orders could work!</p>
<p>Going by the list above, and supplementing it with <a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Category:Hellknights" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this one</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Chain" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Chain</a>
<br />
Fundamentally, this Order is all about putting people in their rightful place, and demanding they live up to their own duties within that place - whether as slave or ruler. This is actually relatively perfect for a PC on-mission in JR, though it'd take a bit of set-up.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Gate" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Gate</a>
<br />
In my not-super-aware-of-things opinion, this particular order might not work very well. Tied as they are to a particular gate, and associated as they are with summoning fiends, its not really a good fit. That said...
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Godclaw" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Godclaw</a>
<br />
This one is very straightforward. The Order may well have an agent with a mandate to spread the religious doctrine of the Godclaw to the other side of the world; and/or become an esoteric religious scholar, going forth to "acquire" the codes and tenets of (potential) "new" lawful deities (at least their beliefs) on the other continent to help "make a stronger alloy of faith" (or somesuch); and/or to establish a new variant of the Godclaw using local deities on the opposite side of the world - this may even be as a result of a religious vision, bringing her there in the first place.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Nail" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Nail</a>
<br />
This one is easy: the Order simply believes that the character has the potential/duty to spread order and fight back chaos and should do this by aiding the caravan and its people in their goals (and/or adventuring around Sandpoint a little - nothing wrong with sending an armiger to do a little PR work, right?).</p>
<p>This is the easiest to justify in the area, and the Order would especially want "good press" after the events in CotCT, if only to ensure the locals work better with them. And, besides, after RotR, it's known that Sandpoints might be an important place of interest.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Pyre" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Pyre</a>
<br />
... this one is <i>prooooooooobably</i> a no-go. It's still possible, in terms of maybe sending her to purge heresies and bad things on the other side of the world (either actually eliminating the things at their source/starting a new order to do so, or, perhaps just doing scouting/reconnaissance on such heresies; maybe even as a long-term plot on the part of the Lictor to "surround and invade" Vudra or something), but it feels a <i>little</i> harder to justify in a campaign like JR.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Rack" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Rack</a>
<br />
Nope. There may well be a way to do it, but, frankly, it's not worth the hassle, in my opinion.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Scourge" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Scourge</a>
<br />
This one is actually pretty solid, and only gets more compelling as time goes on.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Coil" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Coil</a>
<br />
Not only is it too far away (even by my standards), but it has nothing related to the mission. Much like the Order of the Rack, or 'Pyre, you could stretch it to make something valid of the whole thing, but it's probably more hassle than it's worth.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Pike" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Pike</a>
<br />
These guys are basically wandering knights looking for a fight against cruel monsters. There is little reason to avoid this one!</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Scar" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Scar</a>
<br />
Guys. C'mon. I mean, guys. Guys. C'mon. C'mon, guys. Guys. It's an Order that centers around hunting down assassins.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Torrent" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Order of the Torrent</a>
<br />
An Order scattered across Avistan with a reputation for not ever having evil members? This is nearly perfect.</p>
<p><a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Wall" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Wall</a>
<br />
This one seems exceptionally focused on a specific task, though the mandate to "defend civilization's frontiers" actually lines up pretty well. </p>
<p>If you and your player are open to more Homebrew Orders:</p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rb10?Custom-Hellknight-order-Order-of-the-Scales#1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Scales</a> (<span class=messageboard-ooc>by Silverline</span>)
<br />
This could work really well if there was some great transgression - either real or imagined; against a true law or against a specific individual - that the PC is going for. Any of these could tie the PC to various individuals or people involved.</p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rb10?Custom-Hellknight-order-Order-of-the-Scales#5" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Sewer</a> (<span class=messageboard-ooc>created by me!</span>)
<br />
This one works really well... if your player wants to be a goblin. XD</p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rb10?Custom-Hellknight-order-Order-of-the-Scales#5" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Flame</a> (<span class=messageboard-ooc>created by me!</span>)
<br />
This one <i>also</i> works really well... if your player wants to be a goblin. XD</p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rb10?Custom-Hellknight-order-Order-of-the-Scales#5" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Order of the Angel</a> (<span class=messageboard-ooc>created by me!</span>)
<br />
This actually could work very well if the character in question is descended from the Dunbloods. Dunbloods are, statistically speaking, usually some combination of either human, half-elf, or half-orc (at least as they apply to PC races) with the (dunblood) subtype, though I also have different ones in my home game. The giantkin, especially, were noted as moving north in our game (this was as far back as when Arazni was still alive and active - Tar, too).
<br />
<span class=messageboard-ooc>These giantkin were taers - a kind of medium-sized hairy "giant" with the cold subtype. In our game they were breedable with other humanoids, which, at its most basic, produced a variant of the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/half-giant/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">half giant</a> race with "cold acclimated" instead of "fire acclimated" as a racial trait.</span></p>
<p>If you're interested in more useless detail, all three Orders (due to influence of the Angel), are training in <a href="http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Melekatha" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Melekatha</a> (as taught by the Children of the Upper Reach - an organization the Angel served under as a minor, but skilled devotee for many years during her very long history).
<br />
<span class=messageboard-ooc>To emulate that style, we used a variant of the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/flowing-monk/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">flowing monk</a> and <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/maneuver-master/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">maneuver master</a>; we probably would have used the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crane-style-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">crane</a> <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crane-wing-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">style</a> <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crane-riposte-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">feats</a> and/or the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/archon-style-combat-style/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">archon</a> <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/archon-diversion-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">style</a> <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/archon-justice-combat/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">feats</a>, but a) we really weren't aware of them, and b) the archon style feats don't really match the flavor that well. You can <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/style-feats/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">check the styles</a> for ideas, if you like.</span></p>
<p>One final thing you could do, is use the old Faction Guide as a resource. Make sure the PC gains one PA for every level (perhaps by way of a magical journal or something to inform the Order of her progress) which grants a +3 or +4 PA for every level (make sure to work in a specific order's goals - this isn't just a "you're level 2 - gain 4 PA!" reward, this is a "you're level 2, and have done things 1, 2, 3, and 4 to get there, each of which earn you PA" reward). By level 13 (the start of the last entry of the JR AP), she'll have ~45 PA (<span class=messageboard-ooc>presuming 3.5 PA per level, she'll have 3.5•13 = 45.5 PA</span>), which is enough to become a lictor of her own order: and if she was useful enough to the new Empress, it seems perfectly legitimate that said Empress would allow the establishment of a new Order in the Empire...</p>
<p>Anyway, this is a whoooooooooooolllllle lotta words. Sorry! Hope it helps in some ways, though!</p>As noted above, Hellknights are predominantly lawful, not evil.
Hellknights are, at their core, all about bringing order to chaos. And there is a ton of room to do that in Jade Regent! Especially since "chaos" doesn't necessarily mean, "Run by chaotic people." but rather, "Not following the proper way of things." (for a given definition of "proper" that actually is unique to the Hellknight mindset).
I am not suuuuuuuuuuper-knowledgeable of the AP, but I know a lot about some parts of it,...Tacticslion2017-05-16T18:00:22ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentRyskyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#52017-05-16T18:01:17Z2017-05-16T15:42:55Z<p>It's a journey about camaraderie and reestablishing a rightful ruler, that's something a Hellknight PC could get behind.</p>
<p>Whether it would work or not entirely depends on the player and the group.</p>
<p>Back to Hell's Rebels yeah a standard follower of Zon Kuthon is straight out, but one of those heretical LN followers who are trying to redeem him could work.</p>It's a journey about camaraderie and reestablishing a rightful ruler, that's something a Hellknight PC could get behind.
Whether it would work or not entirely depends on the player and the group.
Back to Hell's Rebels yeah a standard follower of Zon Kuthon is straight out, but one of those heretical LN followers who are trying to redeem him could work.Rysky2017-05-16T15:42:55ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentYakmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#42017-05-16T14:50:01Z2017-05-16T14:47:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rysky wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hellknights are not all Evil, though most lean to it. Case in point as you pointed out, the Order of the Torrent are mostly Good and are your allies in Hell's Rebels.</p>
<p>Secondly you are not required to have levels in the Hellknight prestige class in order to be a member of a Hellknight Order. It's an organization. Not every person has levels in the class.</p>
<p>A wayward Order of the Pike or Order of the Torrent might work I guess in JR. For backstory they could have been raised by Hellknights or have been aspiring to be one, I know Order of the Pike is definitely popular in Varisia. </blockquote><p>the key bit is "I guess"
<p>Hellknights are not a good fit, thematically, with Jade Regent, which is a campaign about friendship, a journey, and a revolution. None of those things are "hellknighty".</p>
<p>Can you do it? Of course. You can do lots of things. But the campaign would be better served with another character type.</p>
<p>as for the other option of Hell's Rebels, a Hellknight is right out (unless it is as the Order of the Torrent, in which case, it fits right in), as is the inquisitor of zon kuthon.</p>Rysky wrote:Hellknights are not all Evil, though most lean to it. Case in point as you pointed out, the Order of the Torrent are mostly Good and are your allies in Hell's Rebels.
Secondly you are not required to have levels in the Hellknight prestige class in order to be a member of a Hellknight Order. It's an organization. Not every person has levels in the class.
A wayward Order of the Pike or Order of the Torrent might work I guess in JR. For backstory they could have been raised by...Yakman2017-05-16T14:47:47ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentRyskyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#32017-05-16T13:14:37Z2017-05-16T12:50:08Z<p>Hellknights are not all Evil, though most lean to it. Case in point as you pointed out, the Order of the Torrent are mostly Good and are your allies in Hell's Rebels.</p>
<p>Secondly you are not required to have levels in the Hellknight prestige class in order to be a member of a Hellknight Order. It's an organization. Not every person has levels in the class.</p>
<p>A wayward Order of the Pike or Order of the Torrent might work I guess in JR. For backstory they could have been raised by Hellknights or have been aspiring to be one, I know Order of the Pike is definitely popular in Varisia.</p>Hellknights are not all Evil, though most lean to it. Case in point as you pointed out, the Order of the Torrent are mostly Good and are your allies in Hell's Rebels.
Secondly you are not required to have levels in the Hellknight prestige class in order to be a member of a Hellknight Order. It's an organization. Not every person has levels in the class.
A wayward Order of the Pike or Order of the Torrent might work I guess in JR. For backstory they could have been raised by Hellknights or...Rysky2017-05-16T12:50:08ZRe: Forums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade RegentYakmanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#22017-05-16T13:14:09Z2017-05-16T12:45:42Z<p>eh. it doesn't really fit.</p>
<p>the idea of jade regent is to go and liberate a nation - on the other hand the hellknight is by his nature all about tyranny and oppression.</p>
<p>maybe you could squeeze in a hellknight of the order of the torrent or the order of the scar... but here's the thing - the players start at level 1, hellknight is a prestige class, and in jade regent, they set out on a journey that takes them to the other side of the world.</p>
<p>so... how exactly does a level one character, who doesn't spend any time being around hellknights, become a hellknight?</p>
<p>it just doesn't make any sense for the campaign. the zon kuthon idea is also right out - it just doesn't make sense for the campaign. tell the player that they need to have a more conventional character, and you'll run the "evil" campaign in the future.</p>
<p>someone wants to be a hellknight - great - just do it in Hell's Vengeance.</p>eh. it doesn't really fit.
the idea of jade regent is to go and liberate a nation - on the other hand the hellknight is by his nature all about tyranny and oppression.
maybe you could squeeze in a hellknight of the order of the torrent or the order of the scar... but here's the thing - the players start at level 1, hellknight is a prestige class, and in jade regent, they set out on a journey that takes them to the other side of the world.
so... how exactly does a level one character, who...Yakman2017-05-16T12:45:42ZForums: Jade Regent: Hellknights and Jade Regentrkotitanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ucn1?Hellknights-and-Jade-Regent#12017-05-16T21:37:51Z2017-05-15T19:02:38Z<p>So, I'm not even halfway through my current game (CotCT) and my players are already discussing what should be run next. One of the major front-runners is Jade Regent (with Hell's Rebels and Ruins of Azlant a close second). </p>
<p>One of the players very much wanted to play a Hellknight in CotCT but given that involving her character with the campaign would have in effect involved her entire order I couldn't see fit to allow it for that campaign.</p>
<p>It is starting to seem very unlikely I'm going to be able to hold it off for JR however.</p>
<p>Seeing how her other option of interest is in an inquisitor of Zon Kuthon I'm inclined to find a way to make it work.</p>
<p>Any Hellknight scholars with deep knowledge of JR who can tell me how I could tie in the most troublesome of organizations to the path? </p>
<p><i>The suggestion that Hellknights are troublesome is the opinion of the OP and not indicative of the posting masses as a whole. Any opinions are the responsibility of the OP and not actionable by the universe at large.</i></p>
<p>A potential fugitive for Order of the Chain perhaps?</p>So, I'm not even halfway through my current game (CotCT) and my players are already discussing what should be run next. One of the major front-runners is Jade Regent (with Hell's Rebels and Ruins of Azlant a close second).
One of the players very much wanted to play a Hellknight in CotCT but given that involving her character with the campaign would have in effect involved her entire order I couldn't see fit to allow it for that campaign.
It is starting to seem very unlikely I'm going to be...rkotitan2017-05-15T19:02:38Z