Suggestions for Slayer talents for a Switch Hitter Slayer.


Advice


So I've gotten through my first session of a friends campaign where I'm playing a Switch Hitter Slayer. A lot of my first few slayer talents will be converted into feats or used for ranger combat archery stuff to get the ranger half of my build finished quickly. My favored class bonus over the course of this characters progression should role me 3 free, bonus, slayer talents. I need suggestions for talents to best benefit this character and play style. I'll be ranger at the beginning of most encounters, hopefully sneaking first in hopes of getting surprise round sneak attacks, afterward I'll be charging into combat with a 2h weapon for the rest of the fight. My build at level 2 thus far is:

Level 2 half elf slayer (sniper archetype) with darkvission, 19hp, 18str, 15dex, 13con, 12int, 13wis and 10con. My feats so far are power attack, and I used my level 2 slayer talent to get the rogue combat trick for cleave which I'll be retraining later for the bonus sneak damage feat, intimidating prowess, or opening volley.

My party comp is a level 2 kitsune alchemist with 14-16 dex, 8 str.

A level 2 catfolk rogue with 18 dex, 8 str. (She doesn't have weapon finesse and uses a short sword so I have no clue what her character deal is.)

And a level 2 sylph monk "the world's fastest mailman" with 14 str and 18 dex.

It seems me and the monk are the only ones usable in combat and he is a little shaky to say the least in a fight.


For an advanced talent I like hunters surprise. Killing flourish and gruesome slaughter interest me, partially because they are slayer exclusive. There are several rogue tricks that help with sniping and surprise that are open to you, fast stealth also sounds like you might use it.


Java Man wrote:
For an advanced talent I like hunters surprise. Killing flourish and gruesome slaughter interest me, partially because they are slayer exclusive. There are several rogue tricks that help with sniping and surprise that are open to you, fast stealth also sounds like you might use it.

Killing flourish is a goal feat for me eventually, I dont have much charisma which right now hurts a lot considering my umd and intimidate kind of suck, though I was able to terrify the crap out of the monk with an accidental nat 20 on an intimation check. (This character is a cold blooded killer for cash so I use intimidation for every situation that she has to be social. I gave her no actual social skills so its been lots of fun.) Ill take a look into hunters surprise and yes I for sure want fast stealth!


Your party seems in need of more magic users, but that's something I think you've already realised as well and probably don't care. Your party composition seems pretty wonky in general.

I'm not a big fan of Cleave, especially if you have to take it with a Slayer Talent, especially since you want your Ranger Style ASAP. The guides I've seen recommend the following feats:
- Deadly Aim. The Power Attack of archery.
- Rapid Shot. Probably your level 2 choice.
- Manyshot. Probably your level 6 choice.
- Power Attack. Your basic melee damage increaser.
- Quickdraw. You'll be switching weapons often and you don't want to spend actions on them, especially since you're a Slayer and you want that move action to study.

My advice is to take Quickdraw at level 1 so you can draw, study, and hit in the same round. Talent at level 2 is Ranger Combat Style with Rapid Shot. Level 3 will be either Power Attack or Deadly Aim, whichever you think you'll be using more. Level 4 can be a Combat Trick if you want for the feat you didn't choose at level 3, or wait for it until level 5 and choose a different trick. Level 6 will be Manyshot.

I've never player a switch-hitter, but I've seen several ones played, and I can say the following: not having Precise Shot will hurt sometimes. Sometimes you want to use your ranged weapon but you can't. I personally prefer playstyles that focus on the one or the other. A switch-hitter loses a bit of focus, I find.

Also, Sniper archetype sucks, IMHO. It doesn't do anything. Better stick with vanilla Slayer and get your combat style at level 2. You're going to need those feats, especially when you're going switch-hitter.

Shadow Lodge

dot


Quentin Coldwater wrote:

Your party seems in need of more magic users, but that's something I think you've already realised as well and probably don't care. Your party composition seems pretty wonky in general.

I'm not a big fan of Cleave, especially if you have to take it with a Slayer Talent, especially since you want your Ranger Style ASAP. The guides I've seen recommend the following feats:
- Deadly Aim. The Power Attack of archery.
- Rapid Shot. Probably your level 2 choice.
- Manyshot. Probably your level 6 choice.
- Power Attack. Your basic melee damage increaser.
- Quickdraw. You'll be switching weapons often and you don't want to spend actions on them, especially since you're a Slayer and you want that move action to study.

My advice is to take Quickdraw at level 1 so you can draw, study, and hit in the same round. Talent at level 2 is Ranger Combat Style with Rapid Shot. Level 3 will be either Power Attack or Deadly Aim, whichever you think you'll be using more. Level 4 can be a Combat Trick if you want for the feat you didn't choose at level 3, or wait for it until level 5 and choose a different trick. Level 6 will be Manyshot.

I've never player a switch-hitter, but I've seen several ones played, and I can say the following: not having Precise Shot will hurt sometimes. Sometimes you want to use your ranged weapon but you can't. I personally prefer playstyles that focus on the one or the other. A switch-hitter loses a bit of focus, I find.

Also, Sniper archetype sucks, IMHO. It doesn't do anything. Better stick with vanilla Slayer and get your combat style at level 2. You're going to need those feats, especially when you're going switch-hitter.

I...kind of feel like you didnt read anything I said at all. I already have my feats planned out more or less, I dont need feat advice. I already know everything you told me. I was asking about slayer talents. I need suggestions for those as after all of my feats are planned out and several of my talents aided me in getting more feats I still have several talents left over that are just empty in my 20 level plan. Our party comp IS weird because the gm literally just told everyone separately in the middle of the night. "we play tomorrow, 25 point buy, make any character you want." Im the only one who decided to play a character that could easily slide into most parties, I have skills, ranged damage, and melee damage. None of which are as good as a dedicated character but all well enough that im always helping more than hurting. No one else seemed to have that idea and just made whatever, hence why we have 3 high dex characters and only one that can actually hit something in combat and still do damage outside of myself. Also, do you know anything about the sniper archetype at all? You trade tracking....thats IT! You trade tracking for a level one ability that is meh and then get a free ability at level 2 that breaks the limit on your sneak attack range which is usually set at 30ft, it also gives you bonus damage on the sneak attack damage = to my sniper slayer level. Thats awesome! I can be 110 feet away and still get a sneak attack on an unaware enemy with a composite longbow! With a level 10 character with 18 str and only a basic +4 composite longbow thats 1d8+3d6+10+4 damage on that unsuspecting enemy. Thats pretty decent. Its what? Max 40 damage without applying feats, equipment and enchantment bonuses to damage by that level? Pfff ill take that in place of a practically useless ability that the vanilla slayer gets. Not to mention afterward im still basically a vanilla slayer as the rewards of the archetype end at level 2.


the Queen's Raven wrote:
dot

Dot? Like "." or "Damage over time?" I don't think I follow.


Depending on how switch you want your switch hitting you might go for a one handed melee weapon, this gives you the option to keep your bow in your off hand and melee, or drop the bow and use two hands anyway. You give up a point or two of damage for a bit more versatility.

And if you grab quickdraw make sure to pack several thrown weapons, most, if not all, of your bow based abilities will work with them, and they give an option if you had to drop your bow across the room to melee strongly.


Java Man wrote:

Depending on how switch you want your switch hitting you might go for a one handed melee weapon, this gives you the option to keep your bow in your off hand and melee, or drop the bow and use two hands anyway. You give up a point or two of damage for a bit more versatility.

And if you grab quickdraw make sure to pack several thrown weapons, most, if not all, of your bow based abilities will work with them, and they give an option if you had to drop your bow across the room to melee strongly.

Im much more keen on the idea of simply using my greatsword after ive switched out of my bow. I will indeed be picking up quickdraw as soon as possible as was my original plan and im a step ahead, my first purchase after my greatsword was a set of darts to throw as they are cheap, 1d4 damage plus my str mod of 4 and weigh very little. I like the idea of holding onto a small throwing weapon anyway just incase I do find myself getting the opening volley feat at some point.


I like Bleeding attack for setting up Flensing Strike, otherwise not really worth it.

Slow Reactions is good for increased party mobility

Evasion is an easy pick up

Opportunist is great as you will have a flanking buddy in the rogue

Emboldening Strike is a decent way to buff saves at higher level.


I go round and round in my head on greatsword vs longsword for a character like this (or falchion vs scimitar or whatever), flavor and image usually decide it.

Talents, blood reader is either great, or metagaming imersion breaking, depends on who you ask. If it looks good to you make sure to clear it with your GM, it makes some cranky.

And don't overlook the bonuses to social skills in studied target, you should pause and evaluate everyone you talk to, give em a good stare.


My apologies, I was primarily giving advice on building a switch-hitter and only secondarily focusing on Slayer Talents. Still though, I felt like you could use some improvements on your build (Cleave doesn't do much for you, for example, while Rapid Shot will).

As for Slayer Talents: I feel like there are few enough options that the choice is pretty obvious: Ranger Style at 2, 6, and 10, maybe a combat feat whenever you need it, and the rest is up to you. Finesse Rogue if your DEX is noticeably higher than your STR, Snap Shot is an obvious choice, Camouflage might come in handy, Surprise Attack gets an extra sneak attack chance, and that's pretty much it. For advanced talents, Evasion might be worth it if you're not in medium armour, Opportunist is ridiculously good, and Hunter's Surprise is good too. Any combination of these talents will make for a pretty good character, I feel. Figuring out which ones to take first will depend on your campaign, I don't think I can figure that out for you.

I indeed missed that the Sniper didn't trade anything in for its second ability. I read it and I automatically assumed it switched out the second-level Slayer Talent. Deadly Sniper is still pretty meh though. The enemy has to be completely unaware of you, not just flat-footed. This'll only work if you have incredible Stealth or methods of permanent invisibility. Regular flat-footedness isn't enough. I feel that doesn't come up often enough, as most of the time you invade other people's/monster's territories, not the other way around. It'll be pretty hard to hide your presence when you've just kicked in the door to their lair.


Quentin Coldwater wrote:

My apologies, I was primarily giving advice on building a switch-hitter and only secondarily focusing on Slayer Talents. Still though, I felt like you could use some improvements on your build (Cleave doesn't do much for you, for example, while Rapid Shot will).

As for Slayer Talents: I feel like there are few enough options that the choice is pretty obvious: Ranger Style at 2, 6, and 10, maybe a combat feat whenever you need it, and the rest is up to you. Finesse Rogue if your DEX is noticeably higher than your STR, Snap Shot is an obvious choice, Camouflage might come in handy, Surprise Attack gets an extra sneak attack chance, and that's pretty much it. For advanced talents, Evasion might be worth it if you're not in medium armour, Opportunist is ridiculously good, and Hunter's Surprise is good too. Any combination of these talents will make for a pretty good character, I feel. Figuring out which ones to take first will depend on your campaign, I don't think I can figure that out for you.

I indeed missed that the Sniper didn't trade anything in for its second ability. I read it and I automatically assumed it switched out the second-level Slayer Talent. Deadly Sniper is still pretty meh though. The enemy has to be completely unaware of you, not just flat-footed. This'll only work if you have incredible Stealth or methods of permanent invisibility. Regular flat-footedness isn't enough. I feel that doesn't come up often enough, as most of the time you invade other people's/monster's territories, not the other way around. It'll be pretty hard to hide your presence when you've just kicked in the door to their lair.

It's no problem at all, and yes the talents you suggested are pretty decent for sure and I have considered most of them, as I said cleave will probably only stay until I see a reason to retrain it for something better. I'll probably retrain at level 6 when I get two natural attacks. Many shots and rapid shot are also included on my current plan for feats. I always make a point to at least attempt to sneak into every combat or at least lay in waiting if I can get can see the combat coming. I feel I'll get more use out of sniper than I would tracking.


Sniper is just gravy if it only replaces track. It seems to me that not losing the 2nd level talent is an oversight, but as written its damn good for what you want.


If you don't want to focus too much on melee. I suggest looking into Empty Quiver Style which would allow you to use your bow as a melee weapon. However once you get point blank master, you don't need to switch hit much.


From a general recommendation stand point it's not necessary or useful to play as a switch hitter.

You gain access to ranger combat style, which can grant you access to Point Blank Master, which means you can focus fully on ranged combat and not provoke. I would recommend focusing completely on archery and ignore melee stuff for the most part. Keep armor spikes or a cestus for threatening, but that's about all you need.

Conversely, if you are insistent on being a switch hitter you basically want almost no investment in archery because in theory you only use a bow on the first round of combat as the enemy move up to you and then you pull out your melee weapon.

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