Advice on a build. Thinking of playing a crit fisher but with a caveat. Need it to have a companion to help


Advice

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I'm looking for build advice on a crit-fisher that has either a companion, familiar, or Eidolon that helps in combat to make more aoo like paired opportunist type stuff. It is unchained


Do you want to narrow that down a bit? As given it could be anything from a goliath druid to an eldritch guardian fighter, with stops at hunter, beastblade magus, magical child vigilante, carnivalist rogue, spirit binder wizard/eldritch knight, aberrant bloodrager... and more.


Hmm...
Unchained Summoner with an Azata Familiar.
First you acquire proficiency with a Crit-Fishing weapon for yourself, such as the Naginata, Scimitar, Falchion, Rapier, Katana, or Wakizashi; most likely by playing a human, elf, or half-elf. Second you give Eidolon one as well. Azata are already proficient with all Martial Weapons (so Scimitars, Falchions, Rapiers, and Naginata are all available to them), but any Eidolon can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at 1st level due to their Full BAB (granting Katana or Wakizashi)


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I'd probably just play a hunter for the bonus (and changeable) teamwork feats. Use a rapier and build towards improved feint partner so each time you feint each of you get an AoO.


Any full martial that can acquire a Valet Familiar would work too, such as the Eldritch Guardian mentioned above.
You could even go for any Human Martial though and still acquire a full Valet Familiar by 3rd through either Familiar Bond or Variant Multi-classing Wizard. Familiars in the hands of Martials can actually end up with better stat-blocks than most other Companions because of the way their stats are calculated.


Packmaster hunter does this best (IMO of course). I think the class was designed around it.


You grab a high crit weapon.

You grab the feat butterfly 's sting.

Your Eidolon wields a scythe.

Enjoy.

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Kenku dual-wielding keen wakizashi with a companion wielding naginata (I think--whatever is the x4 two-handed weapon that samurai use) with Butterfly Sting like MageHunter suggested. Are there any sneak-attacking classes or archetypes that give you a weapon-wielding companion (besides Leadership).


Naginata are indeed to Two-Handed d8 20/x4 Reach weapons. I was confusing them with Nodachi (which are d10 18-20/x2 Brace weapons).

You can Variant Multiclass Summoner as a Rogue, Ninja, Stalker Vigilante, or Slayer and take an Azata Eidolon at 7th... but your companion's progression will be super stunted. I'd be more likely to Variant Multiclass Rogue as a Summoner to get 4d6 of Sneak Attack and a fully progressing Companion.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

avr wrote:
Do you want to narrow that down a bit? As given it could be anything from a goliath druid to an eldritch guardian fighter, with stops at hunter, beastblade magus, magical child vigilante, carnivalist rogue, spirit binder wizard/eldritch knight, aberrant bloodrager... and more.

No third party stuff. I didn't want to narrow down as I wasn't sure what I could do to get a companion, familiar, eidolon type build with crit fishing. Any of the ones you mentioned seem cool. What type of feats would I choose. No magic items though

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

Cantriped wrote:

Any full martial that can acquire a Valet Familiar would work too, such as the Eldritch Guardian mentioned above.

You could even go for any Human Martial though and still acquire a full Valet Familiar by 3rd through either Familiar Bond or Variant Multi-classing Wizard. Familiars in the hands of Martials can actually end up with better stat-blocks than most other Companions because of the way their stats are calculated.

I looked at familiars and think it would be good provided I pick the class that allows shared feats right? Like the fighter?


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Mmm. Even if the mechanics were wide open, maybe there's some roleplaying concept which might direct it a bit, there's a lot of options out there.

I'll try and flesh one or two of those out a bit. The feats would depend on exactly which option you go with. There's exactly one class which actually shares non-teamwork feats and that's the EG fighter; it's not the only choice.

e.g.1. An aberrant bloodrager can get a familiar via the Aberrant tumor feat. They give their familiar full BAB and good HP, and when it reconnects it gets fast healing 5. What they get back from it as a crit-fisher is help with extra attacks which might trigger their Staggering Strike ability.

Possibly then you take a human (you need feats) bloodrager with the aberrant bloodline. You're going to be swinging a falchion or estoc BTW. Your familiar takes the valet archetype so it shares teamwork feats. You're going to need 13 Int for Evolved Familiar, sorry. Your feats go

1: Aberrant Tumor
H: Evolved Familiar
3: Paired Opportunists (teamwork)
5: Outflank (teamwork)
B6: Combat Reflexes
7: Improved Familiar (anything which can wield a weapon)
9: Improved Critical
11: Seize the Moment (teamwork)
B12: Iron Will
13: Coordinated Charge (teamwork)

Then whatever, that concludes the important parts.

Edited because I forgot one of the prereqs of Pack Flanking.


You with a cutlass and a hunter class.
Butter fly sting and an ankylosaurus.

You crit, pass to it an instant stun for multiple rounds.


Soo..... Crit fishers are EXTREMELY specialty intensive. My GM built a severist/stalker for crit fishing. Every feat was called for, class features from BOTH classes were pulled into account, the traits were geared that way, even the material of the character's blades is designed for crit confirmation. You can get away with slacking in ONE of those departments, even base material and traits, but not all of them. And, you're not really going to have room for a companion. The BEST you could do is sacrifice a couple of feats for a Mauler Familiar.


Crit fishers are a minmax build, as my GM would put it.


My GM says you COULD do it with 3-4 stalker (the key in it is one of the Stalker arts), then 16 Druid and Boon Companion, but you'll only ever be a "decent" crit fisher that way. So, there's that.


e.g.2. Spirit binder wizard (divination/foresight) 1 / eldritch guardian fighter 2 / carnivalist unchained rogue X. The first because that gives the familiar BAB and saves from any one class (& a bonus feat), the second to share combat feats, the last for sneak attack and to be something more interesting than a fighter. The wizard level has to come first, the order of the rest is optional. Weretiger-kin skinwalker by race, we're going to get into intimidate too.

Feats go

1: Paired Opportunists
W1: Weapon Focus (to familiar only, with its favourite natural weapon)
3: Weapon Focus (with your crit-fisher's weapon)
5: Dazzling Display
7: Outflank
9: Violent Display
11: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
RT11: Combat Trick (Disheartening Display)

OK, maybe TWF would be better than all the intimidate. That kind of leaves your familiar with less involvement though.


chrispryor wrote:
Cantriped wrote:

Any full martial that can acquire a Valet Familiar would work too, such as the Eldritch Guardian mentioned above.

You could even go for any Human Martial though and still acquire a full Valet Familiar by 3rd through either Familiar Bond or Variant Multi-classing Wizard. Familiars in the hands of Martials can actually end up with better stat-blocks than most other Companions because of the way their stats are calculated.
I looked at familiars and think it would be good provided I pick the class that allows shared feats right? Like the fighter?

Yes-ish, I mentioned the Valet Familiar because they automatically share any Teamwork Feats you possess. so for example, if you take Escape Route, your familiar is also considered to have Escape Route. If it sits on your shoulder, you can run through hordes of goblins without suffering Attacks of Opportunity.

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Zarius wrote:
Crit fishers are a minmax build, as my GM would put it.

It looked that way to me as well. I don't want to make a bad pc but I also don't need to min max it either. I really like the idea of action economy with aoo effects and having a companion, familiar, or whatever. Summoner has always had my interest but I want a fUllman bab or at least close.


Zarius wrote:
My GM says you COULD do it with 3-4 stalker (the key in it is one of the Stalker arts), then 16 Druid and Boon Companion, but you'll only ever be a "decent" crit fisher that way. So, there's that.

1) Stalker is third party and it has mentioned that only first party is allowed.

2) Crit fishing builds aren't that crazy. You pick up a 18-20 weaoon, spend 8k gold on it, and done. You pick up two feats if you want want to help other people (Butterfly sting and out flank). This really shouldn't put any other melee build too far behind, since you'll probably avoid power attack in hopes of confirming criticals.


Crit fishers are great, that is, until they run into something they can't hit at which point the wheels come off and they fall apart.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

avr wrote:

e.g.2. Spirit binder wizard (divination/foresight) 1 / eldritch guardian fighter 2 / carnivalist unchained rogue X. The first because that gives the familiar BAB and saves from any one class (& a bonus feat), the second to share combat feats, the last for sneak attack and to be something more interesting than a fighter. The wizard level has to come first, the order of the rest is optional. Weretiger-kin skinwalker by race, we're going to get into intimidate too.

Feats go

1: Paired Opportunists
W1: Weapon Focus (to familiar only, with its favourite natural weapon)
3: Weapon Focus (with your crit-fisher's weapon)
5: Dazzling Display
7: Outflank
9: Violent Display
11: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
RT11: Combat Trick (Disheartening Display)

OK, maybe TWF would be better than all the intimidate. That kind of leaves your familiar with less involvement though.

This looks pretty cool. Is this something that would be good going back to wizard or is it a take once type of thing

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

Brother Fen wrote:
Crit fishers are great, that is, until they run into something they can't hit at which point the wheels come off and they fall apart.

What do you mean by can't hit. Like literally or can't hurt


My second example was meant to take one level of wizard ever. Grab some spells you can cast out of combat or verbal-only, maybe plan to use a few wands & scrolls, but mostly you head into rogue and don't look back. The skill unlock to get is intimidate if that isn't obvious.


And one more, since I'm bored.

e.g.3. Goliath druid with an itty-bitty totem guide velociraptor. The plan is that the druid stands and delivers, locking down enemies, while the 'raptor (deinonychus technically) dashes around pouncing and flanking. The 'raptor should get +1 Int at level 4 to open up feat options.

1: Combat Reflexes
Half-elf: EWP (fauchard)
1A: Dodge
2A: Mobility
3: Dirty Fighting
5: Paired Opportunists
5A: Paired Opportunists
7: Improved Trip
8A: Spring Attack
9: Greater Trip
9A: Eldritch Claws (from totem guide archetype)
10A: Circling Mongoose
11: Improved Critical (fauchard)


I'm surprised nobody's mentioned inquisitor.

Get a companion via the chivalry inquisition or ravener hunter archetype/lunar mystery, depending on whether you want a horse or a tiger. Consider going sanctified slayer for the sneak attack, since with Pack Hunter you'll be flanking as long as you're riding. (On balance, sanctified slayer is probably the way to go, since you can get a tiger with three natural attacks and pounce.)

Almost as good a companion as the hunter's, with way more offense thanks to judgments or (if you go sanctified slayer) studied target/sneak attack, plus imo a better spell list.

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I really like spells for sure. I like Druid idea and this inquisitor as well just mentioned. Is it possible for druids to have a familiar instead like an archetype maybe. As in take eldritch guardian then Druid or does the Druid serve better as having an actual animal companion


It's certainly possible to get a druid a familiar rather than an AnC via some of the animal/terrain domains and some archetypes, and with the shaping focus feat you can keep up your wild shape while multiclassing. Two levels of EG still loses you a spell level of course.

As to which is better - familiars are more flexible, AnCs are tougher and more easily replaceable. Unless the familiar has the figment archetype, in which case they're even more easily replaceable but they pop really easily.

Maybe... the crocodile domain on a nature fang druid. Human too. We're going to need a lot of feats here. The dwarf caiman can be a figment. Ranger combat styles for the TWF feats so it's strength all the way. Eldritch guardian fighter 2 / nature fang druid X.

1: Weapon Focus (kukri)
H: Racial Heritage (ogre)
3: Paired Opportunists
5: Outflank
ST6: Ranger combat style (TWF)
7: Broken Wing Gambit
ST8: Ranger combat style (Improved TWF)
9: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
ST10: Combat trick (Improved Critical)
11: Savage Critical
ST12: Ranger combat style (Greater TWF)

Besides helping you flank the familiar can take hits via broken wing gambit & soak AoOs for moving before you do; figments will reappear in the morning. Note that it gets a few evolutions too.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

avr wrote:

It's certainly possible to get a druid a familiar rather than an AnC via some of the animal/terrain domains and some archetypes, and with the shaping focus feat you can keep up your wild shape while multiclassing. Two levels of EG still loses you a spell level of course.

As to which is better - familiars are more flexible, AnCs are tougher and more easily replaceable. Unless the familiar has the figment archetype, in which case they're even more easily replaceable but they pop really easily.

Maybe... the crocodile domain on a nature fang druid. Human too. We're going to need a lot of feats here. The dwarf caiman can be a figment. Ranger combat styles for the TWF feats so it's strength all the way. Eldritch guardian fighter 2 / nature fang druid X.

1: Weapon Focus (kukri)
H: Racial Heritage (ogre)
3: Paired Opportunists
5: Outflank
ST6: Ranger combat style (TWF)
7: Broken Wing Gambit
ST8: Ranger combat style (Improved TWF)
9: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
ST10: Combat trick (Improved Critical)
11: Savage Critical
ST12: Ranger combat style (Greater TWF)

Besides helping you flank the familiar can take hits via broken wing gambit & soak AoOs for moving before you do; figments will reappear in the morning. Note that it gets a few evolutions too.

What does st mean next to the levels


Slayer talent. Nature fang druids get them from class level 4. In this case that means character level 6.


Slayers, and hence nature fang druids, can take ranger combat styles with up to 3 of their talents. The multiclass is fighter 2 / druid X as stated above.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

So race is dwarf or is that caiman thing something else. This looks pretty fun.


That last build is a human with racial heritage (ogre). Actually using the racial heritage doesn't come online until level 11 - I thought I could make it earlier but the prereq for savage critical of +2d6 sneak attack, and the slowness with which the croc domain gives out sneak attack defeated me. You could easily make it a dwarf, drop racial heritage & savage critical, and get some other feat at level 11 instead. Coordinated Charge maybe.

Edit: or improved familiar @11 maybe.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

Doesn't need to be a dwarf just thought it would be fun to play a race other than a half race or human for a change


Sure. Just saying the racial heritage didn't work out as well as I intended & swapping the race is entirely possible. A race with a strength bonus would be best - suli, gnoll, or some varieties of aasimar, skinwalker, dhampir or tiefling. Not orc, you don't need a wisdom penalty.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

avr wrote:
Sure. Just saying the racial heritage didn't work out as well as I intended & swapping the race is entirely possible. A race with a strength bonus would be best - suli, gnoll, or some varieties of aasimar, skinwalker, dhampir or tiefling. Not orc, you don't need a wisdom penalty.

My GM just said skin Walker will be allowed so it will be a skin Walker variant either the croc or boar I think.

Owner - Grand Adventures Comics and Games

How does the rules work with nature bond here. If you are an Eldritch guardian and nature fang druid do you get the familiar and by default not the other or do you get both. Or does the druid level progress the familiar. I don't see it anywhere but I vaguely recall there being something on all this.


Just play a Hunter, use a Nodachi and worship Calistra as your god. Get the feat Wasp Familiar. Give your new familiar the Valet Archetype. Now you have a familiar and a pet companion that share all teamwork feats. Later take 4 levels in weapon master fighter and grab Boon Companion. Maybe go two weapon fighting with scimitars and Possessed Hand & Hands Autonomy for only a -1 on your attack rolls.

Get a pet with a lot of attacks. Grab Planar Focus and Precise Strike feats.

Weapon Master fighter gives early access to weapon training feats

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