It will be my first time playing a monk, I'm trying to figure out which one would be more effective in combat. Our group consists of a wizard, barbarian, fighter and a rogue. I'm trying to figure out who does more damage. Does a Tetori do much damage in the grapple? Will the vanilla druid be overshadowed by the barbarian and fighter? I want the monk to stand out, just not sure if the vanilla monk can hold its own.
Unchained monk > vanilla monk. Your flurries don't take accuracy penalties so you get to hit more plus you're actually full BAB and have a better hit dice.
What makes the unchained monk good? And do they suffer from MADS?
Tetori doesnt need to do damage. You put them in a chokehold and make sure they can't move at all. You will be overshadowed by the barb/fighter in terms of damage, but they will stand in the shadow of your awesomeness. Ask Bruno.
Where can I find this Bruno?
What makes the unchained monk good? And do they suffer from MADS?
The revised Monk in "Pathfinder Unchained" was an attempt to fix one of the weakest classes in the core rulebook. The core monk has the problem that it requires a considerable degree of system mastery in order to make playable, yet the concept of "badass martial artist" is a character a lot of people want to play.
If this is the first time you're playing a Monk, definitely take the Unchained Monk because it's a lot easier to build and play effectively than any other Monk in Pathfinder.
What makes the unchained monk good? And do they suffer from MADS?The revised Monk in "Pathfinder Unchained" was an attempt to fix one of the weakest classes in the core rulebook. The core monk has the problem that it requires a considerable degree of system mastery in order to make playable, yet the concept of "badass martial artist" is a character a lot of people want to play.
If this is the first time you're playing a Monk, definitely take the Unchained Monk because it's a lot easier to build and play effectively than any other Monk in Pathfinder.
Ahh I see. Is he easier to play than a Tetori?
The issue with the Tetori is that the Tetori is first, foremost, and exclusively a grappler, possibly the best grappler. Now the grappling rules are not as bad in Pathfinder as they have been in related games historically, but they're still more complex than the "attack to do damage" rules.
The other thing is that effective grappling is sort of a silver bullet in a lot of fights- anybody you can grapple you can take out of the fight pretty quickly. So you may find yourself in a lot of situations where you can't grapple an antagonist (because they're on fire, flying where you can't reach them, or incorporeal, or they teleport, or are covered in spikes, etc.) and since you're kind of a one trick pony, you won't have a lot else to do.
Unchained Monk is a lot better rounded and easier to play.
The issue with the Tetori is that the Tetori is first, foremost, and exclusively a grappler, possibly the best grappler. Now the grappling rules are not as bad in Pathfinder as they have been in related games historically, but they're still more complex than the "attack to do damage" rules.
The other thing is that effective grappling is sort of a silver bullet in a lot of fights- anybody you can grapple you can take out of the fight pretty quickly. So you may find yourself in a lot of situations where you can't grapple an antagonist (because they're on fire, flying where you can't reach them, or incorporeal, or they teleport, or are covered in spikes, etc.) and since you're kind of a one trick pony, you won't have a lot else to do.
Unchained Monk is a lot better rounded and easier to play.
Gotcha, thank you. In terms of where to allocate stat points which is most important and which are dump stats?
Yeah, I would not recommend a grapple specialist if you are new to Pathfinder.
While grappling can be very powerful, there are a lot of situations where a Tetori will be out of his niche and unable to contribute effectively.
While an Unchained Monk wont ever be as good at grappling, it is much more well rounded and capable of doing many things.
Monk stats are
str>wis>dex=con>int>cha
So personally, on a 20pt buy I'd do
16+2/12/14/12/14/7
Str to hit well and hard
wis for AC and ki pool
con for more HP
a little dex for AC
a little int cause why not
dump cha, you're just not using face skills.
Going dual talent human to get another +2 to wis, or oread for its stats and natural armor are good choices too.
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unchained monks have access to qinggong powers with out needing the archetype and gets full bab and all its other abilities make it vastly superior to the tetori monkCore Monk < Tetori Monk.
In other words I believe that a tetori archetypes monk is far superior to a vanilla CRB monk. Also consider taking a look at the Qinggong Monk archetype (with Barkskin being a fan favorite)
How is an Unchained Monk a Vanilla Monk? Vanilla must surely mean a monk straight out of the CRB with no archetypes or the alike.
Though if we are talking about Unchained monk vs. Tetori and you want easy to use then absolutely use the unchained version.
unchained monks have access to qinggong powers with out needing the archetype and gets full bab and all its other abilities make it vastly superior to the tetori monkCore Monk < Tetori Monk.
In other words I believe that a tetori archetypes monk is far superior to a vanilla CRB monk. Also consider taking a look at the Qinggong Monk archetype (with Barkskin being a fan favorite)
How is an Unchained Monk a Vanilla Monk? Vanilla must surely mean a monk straight out of the CRB with no archetypes or the alike.
Though if we are talking about Unchained monk vs. Tetori and you want easy to use then absolutely use the unchained version.
Yes the Title should have been "should I go unchained Monk or Tetori?"
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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, currently grappling with syllabus for P.E. class he teach to babymuscle wizards at the Acadamae in Korvosa. Bruno grapple many dumdum monsters from L1 to L16 in Pathfinder Society, so Bruno can offer perspective and opinion (much) later tonight when he done making wizards run suicides.
(Please note, Bruno profile way out of date and from pre-Final Embrace feat line nerfs)
Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, currently grappling with syllabus for P.E. class he teach to babymuscle wizards at the Acadamae in Korvosa. Bruno grapple many dumdum monsters from L1 to L16 in Pathfinder Society, so Bruno can offer perspective and opinion (much) later tonight when he done making wizards run suicides.
(Please note, Bruno profile way out of date and from pre-Final Embrace feat line nerfs)
Ahh the legend lives
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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, apologize for delay...Bruno promise to help decorate Hall of Wards for the new Breaching Festival. Bruno grapple many streamers.
Looking at your party (wizard, barbarian, fighter and a rogue), Bruno tell Atalius be honest with self about what you want:
Do you want to compete in damage with the 3 other martials? Then Unchained Monk with a high STR flurrying a 2-handed weapon will be highly mobile DPS machine once Flying Kick (and later Abundant Step/Dimensional feats) comes online. Remember UnMonk get 1.5xSTR on 2H weapon flurries, unlike vanilla monk. Later, you may go Flurry/Stunning Fist/Medusa's Wrath for a ridiculous amount of unarmed attacks.
Do you have temperament to be team player? Before Bruno become the handsomest and beautifullest of Tetori and could do respectable DPS, Bruno used high speed and high saves to maximum effect for the team. Bruno considered self mobile crowd control spell. Big stupidface wizard far away? Bruno spend ki point for speed and double move across map to harass/grapple wizard until friends come. Dum Dum monsters bothering friends? Bruno grapple and set up other martials for easy peasy attacks. Grappling a monster away from group? Grapple check and move it next to Barbarian so they can full attack on their turn!
Tetori can be made to do decent damage*, but in a group with a smart Barbarian, Fighter and Rogue--they will focus fire whatever you grapple. Many a time Bruno grapple something and party smash it before Bruno fully flex muscles with a triple grapple check round. However, with high saves and high speed, you can even chase down buffed wizards (or the Rune Lord Krune) while shrugging off their spells!
(*Final Embrace errata hurt grapplers, Bruno take blame for that when he mathed out a Brawler)
Do you want to stand out from the rest of the party: UnMonk offers mobility, DPS & qiggong self-buffs. However, you are just another flavor of martial in a party already stacked with 3 martials. Tetori offers mobility, high saves, unstoppable grappling and qiggong self-buffs--but grappling in that group means you need to be OK getting assists while everyone else slam dunks.
Bruno pretty sure you were thinking about a grappling druid at one pont--not only would you have divine magic options, you would have much more flexibility with wildshaping when a grappling form is not needed. You would definitely stand out from the other martials and caster in the group.
Bruno hope that help. Bruno can't tell you what better because better depend on what you honestly want.
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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, not going to argue usage. Bruno see "Core Monk" to refer to original CRB Monk, "Vanilla Monk" to both refer to Core Monk without archetypes and to Core Monk (with archetypes) in general when directly compared to Unchained Monk, and "UnMonk" to refer to "Unchained Monk". YMMV depending how your cohort discuss the game.
ETA: the reason "vanilla Monk" may have been be used to refer to Core Monk vs UnMonk is the paucity of official UnMonk archetypes when it was first released.
Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, not going to argue usage. Bruno see "Core Monk" to refer to original CRB Monk, "Vanilla Monk" to both refer to Core Monk without archetypes and to Core Monk (with archetypes) in general when directly compared to Unchained Monk, and "UnMonk" to refer to "Unchained Monk". YMMV depending how your cohort discuss the game.
ETA: the reason "vanilla Monk" may have been be used to refer to Core Monk vs UnMonk is the paucity of official UnMonk archetypes when it was first released.
Thank you for your insight, ya I'm currently playing a melee druid and realizing that they make very good grapplers indeed. Sounds like an unchained monk would work well but the Hollywood Hogan role playing factor of a tetori would be so much fun.
No. The only archetypes aviable for unMonk are those on this list. No archetype released prior to Unchained is compatible with unMonk.