Outsider naming convention?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Ok, before you troll me, I'm not talking about archons, where it's just "Object/animal/ideal" + "archon" XD

As an clearer example, agathions have the suffix "-nal" after the greek/latin word for an animal classification. This... is where things start to become complex.

What's the naming convention for other outsider groups?
- Angels have either the name "deva", the suffix "-ar" or a unique name, but even then, that can become confusing.
- Devils use the "Object/animal/ideal" + "devil" formula, but their real names are rather complex, in a custom language.
- Demons sometimes use the "Object/animal/ideal" + "demon" formula, but again, their real names are as complex as devils, in a custom language.

The rest seems rather... random ?_?

- Daemons have a... Latin/Greek prefix??? I'm trying to figure out how daemons are named, as the prefix is a word or prefix related to the soul's death.
- Azatas... have random names.
- Qlippoth... have random names.
- etc...

So... how does naming an outsider from a bigger group even work? Let's say I want to create a Kineticist daemon associated to "dying from excessive Kinetic Burn" (y'know, a kineticist who pushed it too far), how should I properly name it?


Just make up something that you like.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Call it a Kamehamehanehadaemon and assign bonus points for getting the reference.


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Dave Justus wrote:
Just make up something that you like.

I'm... trying not to do that, because I want to keep some sort of "realism" ^^;

Gorbacz wrote:
Call it a Kamehamehanehadaemon and assign bonus points for getting the reference.

>9000

Seriously though, I was thinking a stoichedaemon, using the Greek word for "element", but that seems... off :S

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
JiCi wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:
Just make up something that you like.
I'm... trying not to do that, because I want to keep some sort of "realism" ^^;

Be careful, you might trip over trying to explain the difference between fauns and satyrs. Ghouls and ghuls. Demons and Daemons. Or why does lightning bolt underwater work in a completely unrealistic way. Or why can a barbarian fall 6 miles and shrug it off, because 20d6 ain't that much of damage.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Name them all George.

If it works for George Foreman and the Abominable Snowman it's good enough for me.


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Caustodaemon? (Not to be mistaken with Ceustodaemon) It means literally burned daemon. Many daemons have greek roots on their names. Causto as with caustic, which means literally burning. Or Kaustodaemon if you want it to differ more from Ceustodaemons.


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Gorbacz wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:
Just make up something that you like.
I'm... trying not to do that, because I want to keep some sort of "realism" ^^;
Be careful, you might trip over trying to explain the difference between fauns and satyrs. Ghouls and ghuls. Demons and Daemons. Or why does lightning bolt underwater work in a completely unrealistic way. Or why can a barbarian fall 6 miles and shrug it off, because 20d6 ain't that much of damage.

"Realism" in the names, but in the mechanics :P

Another example: an Ice Devil is known as a Gelugon, with "Gel" being the French word for "frost".


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JiCi wrote:

Ok, before you troll me, I'm not talking about archons, where it's just "Object/animal/ideal" + "archon" XD

As an clearer example, agathions have the suffix "-nal" after the greek/latin word for an animal classification. This... is where things start to become complex.

What's the naming convention for other outsider groups?
- Angels have either the name "deva", the suffix "-ar" or a unique name, but even then, that can become confusing.
- Devils use the "Object/animal/ideal" + "devil" formula, but their real names are rather complex, in a custom language.
- Demons sometimes use the "Object/animal/ideal" + "demon" formula, but again, their real names are as complex as devils, in a custom language.

The rest seems rather... random ?_?

- Daemons have a... Latin/Greek prefix??? I'm trying to figure out how daemons are named, as the prefix is a word or prefix related to the soul's death.
- Azatas... have random names.
- Qlippoth... have random names.
- etc...

So... how does naming an outsider from a bigger group even work? Let's say I want to create a Kineticist daemon associated to "dying from excessive Kinetic Burn" (y'know, a kineticist who pushed it too far), how should I properly name it?

Devas are a part of Hinduism and Buddhism. Monadic Devas draw their prefix from an idea. I have no clue about Movanic ones, although I did find a sketchy second-hand reference to Atman and Sanskrit translations. Balisse has hits on The Witcher (3) and French for an automated railroad protection device (balise) However, balise translates favorably - it can mean "beacon". Cassisian gets nothing useful, just hits on Aerobus (Cassidian). Iophanite sounds Greek+ite but is probably gibberish. Ikelos is a Greek divinity, good counterpart to Phobetor (nightmares). A lot of derivative names that aren't complete garbage. New names should probably derive from pretty (and relevant) words you hear, since there doesn't seem to be an overarching theme.

Azatas seem to be mostly Forgotten Realms names. The moth link seems entirely incidental. There's the tenuous maybe-possibly Hindu Yamah, but it seems like a stretch. Find non-guttural sounds and mix them until you have a CG outsider.

Devils are a mixed bag, though they seem to be mostly Greek, Latin and Hebrew. Zebubs are of Semitic (Hebrew) origin, I suspect Magaavs are as well, Erinyes are 100% Greek, Mnemors have a Greek word root, and Pit Fiends need no explanation. Lemures are almost certainly Gygax-custom. Barbazu seems to have a Latin root (Barba, meaning beard. Same root as barber!). Interestingly, some of the other Devil names seem to be Latin+Greek mixes: Gelugon comes from Gelu (Latin for cold) + gon (Greek for... angled?). Or perhaps it is a suffix reference to Dagon? You also get Cornugon (Cornu - Latin for horn). If you find a relevant unclaimed Hebrew name for something, a Greek monster you want to convert, or a good Latin+gon combo, use it.

Demons seem to be majority Gygax custom names, with some exceptions. Babau is an Eastern Mediterranean boogeyman. Succubus/Incubus is Latin, obviously. Swaithe appears to be an English surname, but maybe there's a local legend behind it somewhere. I think Quasits, Vrocks, and Nabassus are more Gygax-custom, but maybe I just haven't read enough. These you'll either have to dig through old sourcebooks to find, or just make up.

You're basically right about Daemons. The basis seems to be of Greek origin (Daimons), but naturally the writers mixed and matched. Notably, "Daemon" is basically the Latin spelling. Cacodaemon (Kakodaemon) is definitely Greek, while Crucidaemon is clearly Latin (and not real). To name new ones, mix and match Latin/Greek+Daemon as you see fit, although I'd err on the side of Greek.

Qlippoths use Hebrew names and Cthulhu Mythods derivatives. Comb lists here to find more. Alternatively, find a Hebrew translator and make something up. Or, just make really weird-sounding random names with improper consonant-vowel arrangements, because that's probably how Lovecraft did it.


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If you need a language to generate lovecraft-seeming names, there's always Welsh, which uses y as it's only vowel a frightening amount of time.


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Divs mainly seem to share the name with a Daeva/Div/Dew from real world myth (except for Doru and Shira iirc).


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My Self wrote:
Lemures are almost certainly Gygax-custom

Lemures are also Latin, evil ghosts or something like that.

My Self wrote:
Cassisian gets nothing useful

Cassis is roman helmet, so helmet archon.

Silver Crusade

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necromental wrote:
My Self wrote:
Lemures are almost certainly Gygax-custom
Lemures are also Latin, evil ghosts or something like that.

Yup

JiCi wrote:
I'm... trying not to do that, because I want to keep some sort of "realism" ^^;

I know you said you didn't want to just make something up, but in the end it's probably what you need to do.


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The Sideromancer wrote:
If you need a language to generate lovecraft-seeming names, there's always Welsh, which uses y as it's only vowel a frightening amount of time.

Also, W is a vowel in Welsh, which makes words look even more difficult to pronounce.


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Isonaroc wrote:
necromental wrote:
My Self wrote:
Lemures are almost certainly Gygax-custom
Lemures are also Latin, evil ghosts or something like that.

Yup

JiCi wrote:
I'm... trying not to do that, because I want to keep some sort of "realism" ^^;
I know you said you didn't want to just make something up, but in the end it's probably what you need to do.

True, but at least it won't sound completely made-up and dumb :P

For instance, if I create an elephant-themed agathion, I can name it a "loxonal", without sounding weird. "Loxo" is... the name of a race in D&D, being bipedal elephants with two trunks, BUT "Loxodonta" is the genus name for the African elephant ;)

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Of course, it all makes sense because Latin is alive and well in Golarion.


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Google Translator has limits, but came up with 'flamma consumpsit' for the German word 'ausgebrannt' (English: 'burn out'). Translating from English doesn't deliver such nice Latin here, for some reason.


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Azatas stem from Yazatas, who basically fill the "angel niche" in Zoroastrian belief

The Deva style angels stem from Theosophy, which in turn derive from a hodge podge of Hindu and Gnostic beliefs.

Contributor

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The original trio of proteans derive from the names of the serpents in the Egyptian Ogdoad of Hermopolis (who created the world out of the primordial mud of chaos).

Subsequent proteans derive from various other things. Pelagastr from the pelagic zone of the ocean (thematically befitting their role). Izfiitar as a corruption of the Egyptian word for chaos. Some however don't follow that loose convention at all because f#@k yeah chaos. ;)

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