paizo.com Recent Posts in It's About To Hit The Fanpaizo.com Recent Posts in It's About To Hit The Fan2017-06-12T23:16:20Z2017-06-12T23:16:20ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanChris Lambertzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5202017-06-12T23:00:48Z2017-06-12T23:00:48Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Locking. <a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uehv?Political-Threads-No-Longer-Hosted-on-Paizocom#1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Please refer to this post.</a></span></p>Locking. Please refer to this post.Chris Lambertz2017-06-12T23:00:48ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanScythiahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5192017-06-12T02:06:19Z2017-06-12T02:06:19Z<p>If I'm recalling correctly, Puerto Rico voted something like 51% for statehood in the last referendum. You are correct though that Congress has no desire to act on the issue, so effectively the vote is symbolic.</p>If I'm recalling correctly, Puerto Rico voted something like 51% for statehood in the last referendum. You are correct though that Congress has no desire to act on the issue, so effectively the vote is symbolic.Scythia2017-06-12T02:06:19ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanComrade Anklebiter (alias of Doodlebug Anklebiter)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5182017-06-11T23:10:56Z2017-06-11T23:10:56Z<p>I have no idea, and I have no idea what this website's all about, but</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pr51st.com/misconceptions-puerto-rico-statehood-puerto-rico-blue-state/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Misconceptions about Puerto Rico and Statehood: Puerto Rico Would Be a Blue State</a></p>I have no idea, and I have no idea what this website's all about, but
Misconceptions about Puerto Rico and Statehood: Puerto Rico Would Be a Blue StateComrade Anklebiter (alias of Doodlebug Anklebiter)2017-06-11T23:10:56ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The Fanthejeffhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5172017-06-11T23:24:57Z2017-06-11T23:00:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Guy Humual wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">thejeff wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I wouldn't. </p>
<p>I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power. </p>
<p>Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do. </blockquote>I doubt it's strictly those rascally racist Republicans, this is 70 billion dollars or so we're talking about, and if the island could get Bankruptcy protection to restructure their debt a lot of people aren't getting paid what the island owes. </blockquote><p>Of course, of course. I'm sure there are bankers who don't like it either, but there is a perfectly simple, straightforward obvious political reason why this Congress wouldn't do it. There isn't any need to bribe anyone. Political advantage is sufficient.
<p>70 billion dollars is pocket change compared to control of the Senate.</p>Guy Humual wrote:thejeff wrote:I wouldn't.
I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.
Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.
I doubt it's strictly those rascally racist Republicans, this is 70 billion dollars or...thejeff2017-06-11T23:00:23ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanGuy Humualhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5162017-06-11T23:24:37Z2017-06-11T22:52:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">thejeff wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I wouldn't. </p>
<p>I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power. </p>
<p>Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do. </blockquote><p>I doubt it's strictly those rascally racist Republicans, this is 70 billion dollars or so we're talking about, and if the island could get Bankruptcy protection to restructure their debt a lot of people aren't getting paid what the island owes.thejeff wrote:I wouldn't.
I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power.
Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.
I doubt it's strictly those rascally racist Republicans, this is 70 billion dollars or so we're talking...Guy Humual2017-06-11T22:52:23ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanComrade Anklebiter (alias of Doodlebug Anklebiter)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5152017-06-11T22:56:28Z2017-06-11T22:20:29Z<p>23% participation rate, I'm reading. </p>
<p>I, alas, haven't been following, but usually when the rate is so low it's because the independistas are boycotting. </p>
<p>Anyone know if that's the case today?</p>
<p>EDIT: From <a href="https://www.reuters.com/article/us-puertorico-debt-vote-idUSKBN19204O" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Reuters</a>:</p>
<p>'BOGUS PLEBISCITE'</p>
<p>The island's two main opposition parties boycotted the vote, which gave Puerto Ricans three options: becoming a U.S. state; remaining a territory; or becoming an independent nation, with or without some continuing political association with the United States.</p>
<p>The boycott raised concerns of low voter turnout.</p>
<p>Puerto Rico's former governor Rafael Hernandez Colon said in a statement: "A contrived plebiscite fabricated an artificial majority for statehood by disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of Commonwealth supporters."</p>
<p>Rather than heading to the polls, some 500 Puerto Ricans marched on the streets of San Juan, waving Puerto Rico's flag and chanting in support of independence.</p>
<p>"This is a bogus plebiscite. Our future is independence. We need to be able to decide our own fate," said Liliana Laboy, one of the organizers of the protest.</p>
<p>(Reporting by Tracy Rucinski; editing by Dave Gregorio and Grant McCoo</p>
<p>EDIT 2: Went and looked up the two Puerto Rican opposition parties and then, after, the ruling party.</p>
<p>So, the party calling for statehood is the Partido Nuevo Progresista; oddly, from what little there was about the question on wikipedia, members of the PNP can be affiliated either with the Republicans or the Democrats (for example, the previous governor with the former, the present one with the latter; it lists seven gubernatorial candidates with about 3 affiliating with the Republicans and four with the Democrats).</p>
<p>One of the two opposition parties mentioned as boycotting is the Partido Popular Democrático; they are in favor of the status quo and, according to wikipedia, are mostly affiliated with the Democrats, although further down it says that, like the PNP, individual members can go either way.</p>
<p>Finally, the Partido Independentista Puertorriqueño who are also boycotting, but for the opposite reason; they seem to be unaffiliated with any mainland American party, but they are apparently a member of the Socialist International, so that would put their closest affiliates on the mainland as the Democratic Socialist of America. They apparently jettisoned all their M-L factions back in the early seventies.</p>23% participation rate, I'm reading.
I, alas, haven't been following, but usually when the rate is so low it's because the independistas are boycotting.
Anyone know if that's the case today?
EDIT: From Reuters:
'BOGUS PLEBISCITE'
The island's two main opposition parties boycotted the vote, which gave Puerto Ricans three options: becoming a U.S. state; remaining a territory; or becoming an independent nation, with or without some continuing political association with the United States.
...Comrade Anklebiter (alias of Doodlebug Anklebiter)2017-06-11T22:20:29ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The Fanthejeffhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5142017-06-11T23:24:07Z2017-06-11T22:10:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ambrosia Slaad wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">thejeff wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Guy Humual wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ambrosia Slaad wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Also in maybe not hitting the fan• news, <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/puerto-rico-mulls-political-status-in-new-referendum/2017/06/11/20415f7a-4e5b-11e7-987c-42ab5745db2e_story.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood</a>.</p>
<p>Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated <a href="https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/puerto-rican-statehood-referendum/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p><span class=tiny>• Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...</span> </blockquote>Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico? </blockquote><p>I wouldn't.
<p>I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power. </p>
<p>Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do. </blockquote>Yep. Statehood would mean 2 new Senators and 5 new Representatives, all likely voting Democrat. Ain't no way Republicans are gonna upset their majorities. Although, maybe the Dems should add it to their plank for 2018. </blockquote><p>Hmmm, I'd thought that it required supermajorities, but it seems to just be a normal act of Congress. Hell yeah. Run on it. (Assuming the referendum passes, of course.)Ambrosia Slaad wrote:thejeff wrote: Guy Humual wrote: Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.
Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.
* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...
Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of...thejeff2017-06-11T22:10:29ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanAmbrosia Slaadhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5132017-06-11T23:23:36Z2017-06-11T22:02:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">thejeff wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Guy Humual wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ambrosia Slaad wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Also in maybe not hitting the fan• news, <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/puerto-rico-mulls-political-status-in-new-referendum/2017/06/11/20415f7a-4e5b-11e7-987c-42ab5745db2e_story.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood</a>.</p>
<p>Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated <a href="https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/puerto-rican-statehood-referendum/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p><span class=tiny>• Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...</span> </blockquote>Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico? </blockquote><p>I wouldn't.
<p>I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power. </p>
<p>Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do. </blockquote><p>Yep. Statehood would mean 2 new Senators and 5 new Representatives, all likely voting Democrat. Ain't no way Republicans are gonna upset their majorities. Although, maybe the Dems should add it to their plank for 2018.thejeff wrote:Guy Humual wrote: Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.
Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.
* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...
Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico? I wouldn't....Ambrosia Slaad2017-06-11T22:02:36ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanMMCJawahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5122017-06-11T21:58:00Z2017-06-11T21:44:22Z<p>Also, Puerto Rico is suffering some enormous financial crises, which Washington has kind of not helped all that much out with, despite Puerto Rico being a territory. Treating it as a state means actually putting more effort into helping Puerto Rico out.</p>Also, Puerto Rico is suffering some enormous financial crises, which Washington has kind of not helped all that much out with, despite Puerto Rico being a territory. Treating it as a state means actually putting more effort into helping Puerto Rico out.MMCJawa2017-06-11T21:44:22ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The Fanthejeffhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5112017-06-12T00:45:10Z2017-06-11T20:56:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rednal wrote:</div><blockquote> Because words should mean things. If you want to say "about half of all voters", that's what you should say. To do otherwise only invites <s>covfefe</s> confusion. </blockquote><p>Well, you could say "Nearly three quarters of Americans didn't vote against the dangerous lunatic."Rednal wrote:Because words should mean things. If you want to say "about half of all voters", that's what you should say. To do otherwise only invites covfefe confusion.
Well, you could say "Nearly three quarters of Americans didn't vote against the dangerous lunatic."thejeff2017-06-11T20:56:35ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanRednalhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5102017-06-12T00:45:04Z2017-06-11T20:51:31Z<p>Because words should mean things. If you want to say "about half of all voters", that's what you should say. To do otherwise only invites <s>covfefe</s> confusion.</p>Because words should mean things. If you want to say "about half of all voters", that's what you should say. To do otherwise only invites covfefe confusion.Rednal2017-06-11T20:51:31ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanWormysQueuehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5092017-06-11T20:39:59Z2017-06-11T20:39:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rednal wrote:</div><blockquote> No, no. It was 26% of the US' eligible voting population, or about 19% of the total population, that voted for Trump. Nowhere near half of the US. </blockquote><p>Sorry, but non-voters make themselves irrelevant, so why should I count them? They could have done the responsible thing but decided not to.
<p>And as far as the popular vote goes, my point still stands.</p>Rednal wrote:No, no. It was 26% of the US' eligible voting population, or about 19% of the total population, that voted for Trump. Nowhere near half of the US.
Sorry, but non-voters make themselves irrelevant, so why should I count them? They could have done the responsible thing but decided not to. And as far as the popular vote goes, my point still stands.WormysQueue2017-06-11T20:39:59ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The Fanthejeffhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5082017-06-12T00:44:55Z2017-06-11T20:20:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Guy Humual wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ambrosia Slaad wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Also in maybe not hitting the fan• news, <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/puerto-rico-mulls-political-status-in-new-referendum/2017/06/11/20415f7a-4e5b-11e7-987c-42ab5745db2e_story.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood</a>.</p>
<p>Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated <a href="https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/puerto-rican-statehood-referendum/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p><span class=tiny>• Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...</span> </blockquote>Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico? </blockquote><p>I wouldn't.
<p>I'd suggest that the Republicans controlling Congress wouldn't allow a new state full of Hispanics very likely to vote Democratic. This has actually been a feature of US politics since the days we only admitted states in free state/slave state pairs to avoid upsetting the balance of power. </p>
<p>Bankers have very little to do with it. Two new Democratic Senators do.</p>Guy Humual wrote:Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.
Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.
* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...
Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico? I wouldn't. I'd suggest...thejeff2017-06-11T20:20:08ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanRednalhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5072017-06-11T21:29:42Z2017-06-11T20:16:28Z<p>Let's see... the result tracker there says Statehood is expected to win "decisively", but I feel like that's a little too mild of a word for the results I'm seeing there. "Overwhelmingly" might be a bit more appropriate.</p>Let's see... the result tracker there says Statehood is expected to win "decisively", but I feel like that's a little too mild of a word for the results I'm seeing there. "Overwhelmingly" might be a bit more appropriate.Rednal2017-06-11T20:16:28ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanGuy Humualhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5062017-06-11T20:12:37Z2017-06-11T20:12:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ambrosia Slaad wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Also in maybe not hitting the fan• news, <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/puerto-rico-mulls-political-status-in-new-referendum/2017/06/11/20415f7a-4e5b-11e7-987c-42ab5745db2e_story.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood</a>.</p>
<p>Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated <a href="https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/puerto-rican-statehood-referendum/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p><span class=tiny>• Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...</span> </blockquote><p>Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico?Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.
Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.
* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...
Are you suggesting the bankers, who hold the majority of Puerto Rico's debt, would have more say on if they become a state then the people of Puerto Rico?Guy Humual2017-06-11T20:12:37ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanAmbrosia Slaadhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5052017-06-11T19:27:57Z2017-06-11T18:35:59Z<p>Also in maybe not hitting the fan• news, <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/puerto-rico-mulls-political-status-in-new-referendum/2017/06/11/20415f7a-4e5b-11e7-987c-42ab5745db2e_story.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood</a>.</p>
<p>Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated <a href="https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/puerto-rican-statehood-referendum/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p><span class=tiny>• Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...</span></p>Also in maybe not hitting the fan* news, Puerto Rico is voting today on a referendum for statehood.
Edit: Polls close at 3PM Eastern time. Results will be updated here.
* Yes, I know that if it passes in PR, the current Congress would never vote to admit them as a state...Ambrosia Slaad2017-06-11T18:35:59ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanKajehasehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5042017-06-11T18:16:27Z2017-06-11T18:16:27Z<p>In news that aren't so much about s+&$ hitting the fan, as it is about it completely missing the fan, maybe even failing to achieve lift-off: according to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BFM_TV" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">BFM TV</a>, Front National may only be in contention for 1-4 seats (of 577 available) in the French National Assembly when it's time for the second round of voting, rather than the projected 15.</p>In news that aren't so much about s*#! hitting the fan, as it is about it completely missing the fan, maybe even failing to achieve lift-off: according to BFM TV, Front National may only be in contention for 1-4 seats (of 577 available) in the French National Assembly when it's time for the second round of voting, rather than the projected 15.Kajehase2017-06-11T18:16:27ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanRednalhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5032017-06-11T20:09:51Z2017-06-11T16:38:51Z<p>No, no. It was 26% of the US' eligible voting population, or about 19% of the total population, that voted for Trump. Nowhere near half of the US.</p>No, no. It was 26% of the US' eligible voting population, or about 19% of the total population, that voted for Trump. Nowhere near half of the US.Rednal2017-06-11T16:38:51ZRe: Forums: Off-Topic Discussions: It's About To Hit The FanWormysQueuehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ua2c&page=11?Its-About-To-Hit-The-Fan#5022017-06-11T16:36:55Z2017-06-11T16:28:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Mad Comrade wrote:</div><blockquote> Things have been getting worse for about forty years, which is why Trump won in the US, why Macron won France and why May's attempt to extend her party's control in Parliament backfired in the UK. </blockquote><p>With the difference that electing Macron was the sensible thing to do, and giving Theresa May a lection about playing with the vote was obviously necessary.
<p>Well and then there's nearly half of the U.S. voting for a dangerous lunatic.</p>The Mad Comrade wrote:Things have been getting worse for about forty years, which is why Trump won in the US, why Macron won France and why May's attempt to extend her party's control in Parliament backfired in the UK.
With the difference that electing Macron was the sensible thing to do, and giving Theresa May a lection about playing with the vote was obviously necessary. Well and then there's nearly half of the U.S. voting for a dangerous lunatic.WormysQueue2017-06-11T16:28:52Z