There are really 2 schools of thought with wildshape melee druids
Pounce school and vital strike school
For pouncing you'll wanna turn into a tiger
For vital strike I believe Hippos are the preferred shape unless you're willing to do some cave Druid shenanigans to turn into an ooze.
Oread is a great choice race wise, nature spell is a given feats wise. Extended spell is good too as yoo have a tone of long term buffs.
If you're gonna have one combat form it might be worth going investing in barding over wild armour
Cheaper
Well for one thing, you can only spend half your WBL on any one item so by RAW you can't afford wild armour, also I think you still have to be profiecemt with it.
Cave Druid lets you turn into an ooze but that doesn't come online till level 10 so your go to vital strike form would be Hippo until then
Although if you were a ave Druid you wouldn't even be able to do that till 8
As for barding you have a friend help you put it on when you change
You should be changing into a hippo before combat after all it lasts 6 hours at your level.
There is also the HUUUUUUGE school for druids.
If you pick the goliath druid (or cave druid) archetype, you can turn into a giant instead of animals.
Why? Several key advantages that make you easier to play than a normal druid. First, since giants are humanoids, they play with a different set of rules for equipment. Instead of having your equipment absorbed, it will instead grow with you. Both weapons and armor. So you could use standard loot the party finds.
So you can run around with a giant scimitar (high crit) or spear (hits like a greatsword when big). And since you have a humanoid shape, you get humanoid reach- 10' when large, and 15' when huge. With a nice, meaty 2 handed weapon, you could even do a reach build.
Other advantages come from the fact that you still have ahnds and a mouth. No need to use a feat so you can cast spells.
Regular druids can also do something similar to this build with elementals (human shaped elementals can use weapons). The disadvantage there is that your equipment doesn't scale (you have to independantly buy a large sized set of stuff), but otherwise similar. Useful for keeping various options as a druid.
I always forget about Goliath druids.
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There is also the HUUUUUUGE school for druids.
If you pick the goliath druid (or cave druid) archetype, you can turn into a giant instead of animals.
Why? Several key advantages that make you easier to play than a normal druid. First, since giants are humanoids, they play with a different set of rules for equipment. Instead of having your equipment absorbed, it will instead grow with you. Both weapons and armor. So you could use standard loot the party finds.
So you can run around with a giant scimitar (high crit) or spear (hits like a greatsword when big). And since you have a humanoid shape, you get humanoid reach- 10' when large, and 15' when huge. With a nice, meaty 2 handed weapon, you could even do a reach build.
Other advantages come from the fact that you still have ahnds and a mouth. No need to use a feat so you can cast spells.
Regular druids can also do something similar to this build with elementals (human shaped elementals can use weapons). The disadvantage there is that your equipment doesn't scale (you have to independantly buy a large sized set of stuff), but otherwise similar. Useful for keeping various options as a druid.
I really like the idea of Goliath Druid, even though becoming an animal is more fun. It's true I could use standard loot, and that's a big plus.
I would save a talent for casting spell, but I would have to spend one for heavy armor probably. Unless I get a level dip in something like fighter, giving me a bonus feat and plenty of proficiencies.If I go this way, the Giant one, would it be better for me to take a 2h weapon, or 1h+shield since I'm the only melee in the group (other than my animal companion)? Is the Bastard Sword worth a feat to use it 1 handed? (I've always loved that sword, but it doesn't come cheap)
Also, I would be limited to megafauna (my DM doesn't want dinosaurs :( ) so that would limit a lot my choice of companion and eventually animal shape if I don't go for a giant...
You can go as a Half Orc and grab a Keen Falchion and grab a Stoneplate, with the help of Greater Longstrider and Barkskin you will have a decent speed and armor
Grab a scimitar and shield if you are having trouble on some fights
For feats you can have Heavy Armor proficiency, Toughness and Vital Strike for some fun
Two handed.
As I mentioned- you can do a reach build since your extra reach gives you a threatened area of 30' wide (10 to your left, 10 to your right, adn you are 10 in the middle). That means you can be a BIG OLD CIRCLE OF PAIN for anything that wants to run past you at the squishier party members.
Having a 2 handed weapon means the single hit from your AoO would hurt all the more. The heavier you hit, the higher the cost for enemies trying to get through you. That can encourage enemies to try to waste time going around (which means they have to circle around, which might take up their whole turn).
This is even more important if you grab a fortuitous weapon (a +1 weapon property that lets you, 1/round, to get in a second AoO for the same action; that AoO is at BAB-5..... it is a mini full attack). So the best defense for you is a great offense- the BIIIIG-er the threat you pose, the higher your value as a deterrence becomes.
Your AC would be great anyway. Unlike the way that many play normal druids, you can just buy and wear a perfectly normal set of armor. Sure, no metal, but otherwise- normal. So you probably have like... +5, +6 AC? More if you go with heavy armor? Well, on top of that, you get bonuses to natural armor and constitution. So you are fine with AC.
As a note- goliath druids can be fun since they start with their gimmick from level 1. Before you can wildshape, the archetype lets you cast the Enlarge person spell spontaneously on yourself. So you can be large and in charge from the get go.
I know its not a druid but a tiefling ranger with the shapshifter archtype pick up armor of the pit feat and with claw and maw racial trait you can get your natural attacks going play like a bear could be fun
It would be neat to see a hippo ruNing around and chomping things
You don't need wild armor. Just pick your favorite combat form, hand your gold to a party member you trust, and head down to whinny an nickers to get yourself some barding fit for your form. Then enchant it out the wazoo.
Would a dragon hide full plate be worth it? Or should I stick to stone plate? (or go for permanent ironwood?)
I understand, 2H it is then. I'll keep my shield just as a backup plan. Which weapon would you suggest? Should I pick a weapon with reach to get a first attack at a huge range, and then drop it and switch to a close range one when they get closer?
EDIT: also, vital strike is a no go yet. I don't have BAB+6 with the druid
If you want to keep a shield just in case, go for it. Scimitars are one of your two best options with your default proficiency. so you keep the option at the very least.
Oddly, if you want a reach weapon, you will have to go out of your way to get it. Druids are the only melee capable class that doesn't have long spears, as far as I am aware. Obviously 'because tigers'.
well, a spear does 2d6 when you are large. similarly, scimitars get 1d8 and the can also be used two handed.
you choices are basically stabby great sword and a 'basically a falchion'. not a bad set of options.
You list traits in your character info, but only list one, if you're looking for ideas for another and have thoughts of getting a weapon proficiency you could use the Heirloom-weapon trait to gain proficiency with any weapon you want even exotic weapons.
Ok this is what I have so far:
Goliath Druid, level 6
Race: Oread, with the alternative traits Mostly Human (so I can use enlarge person), Earth Insight (so my "earth" summons last longer). Thinking about Treacherous Earth and Granite Skin (but I would lose the acid resistance, which I like)
Ability Scores:
STR 20 (+2 racial, +1 lvl 4)
DEX 12 (if I'm going with heavy armor there is no reason to have more)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14 (+2 racial)
CHA 5 (-2 racial)Feats:
1. Heavy Armor Proficiency
3. Power Attack
5. either Weapon focus (?) or Toughness or...Items:
-Druid's vestment (3750gp)
-Dragonhide plate (3300gp) assuming my DM allows it, not sure yet
other possible magic items would be ring of protection +1 (2k), bracers of armor +1 (1k), cloak of resistance +1 (1k), belt of giant strength +2 (4k)Traits:
- Fortified (maybe)
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-Animal Companion:
- NO IDEA; i'm limited to megafauna, thinking the one elephant-like maybe...EDIT: How to I solve the weapon issue? the only 2H weapon I can use is the Spear... should I stick to it, or use a feat to get a better weapon?
Goliath Druid also has access to the Rage domain, which can be a nice alternative to an Animal Companion if you're not really feeling it.
In terms of front-line druids, I'm also pretty partial to the idea of a Hellknight Signifer druid.
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Yes the extra move is worth it. I would say a 10 foot move speed on a melee character would basically be unplayable. You do have long strider and greater long strider, but movement is really important in pathfinder. I have personally dropped thousands on Mithril breastplate plates more times then I can count for extra movement speed. I also highly utilize longstrider, expeditious retreat, and cheetah's sprint to make sure I can be where I need to be.
It's a very different fighting style, but I prefer frontline druids that get smaller, not bigger. There is definitely a tradeoff, namely shrinking your threatened area from 30-50 feet down to 0-5 feet. I believe the increased armor class, saving throws, initiative, and stealth are worth that sacrifice.
Possible build for a halfling frontliner:
Str: 11
Dex: 19
Con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 15
Cha: 9
Traits: defensive strategist, magical knack (druid)
UMonk 1: (bonus) dodge, crane style
URogue 1: (bonus) weapon finesse
Druid 1: Boon Companion (if taking an animal, otherwise pirahna strike)
URogue 2: (bonus) pirahna strike
Druid 2: risky striker (almost everything will be two sizes larger by 8th level)
Druid 3
Druid 4: shaping focus
Mouser swashbuckler 1
URogue 3: Boon Companion (if taking an animal)
And so on. By lvl 8 (when the build really comes together) you can slip into creatures' squares and pummel them with 2x power attack progression and your mid 40's armor class.
You list traits in your character info, but only list one, if you're looking for ideas for another and have thoughts of getting a weapon proficiency you could use the Heirloom-weapon trait to gain proficiency with any weapon you want even exotic weapons.That's a good idea. Now I'm wondering if I should go for critical or damage. A falchion would give me a huge critical range with the Keen enchant (15-20/x2), while a bastard sword would give me only (17-20/x2) but with greater damage.
Also I'm still not sure if Dragonhide Plate is worth it. It costs twice as much as a stone plate, and the only real difference is that 5ft speed.. I would go at 10ft instead of 15ft (being a slow race). Is 5ft worth 1650 gp?
I believe that the general rule of thumb is that dice damage is better in early levels and extended crit ranges are better in the mid to latter levels when as you point out improved critical and keen are available. I think either of the weapons you mention are solid choices, the falchion is considered one of the best weapons in the game. The bastard sword can also be used as a 2 handed weapon with a -2 penalty to attack rolls (it would do 2d8 damage when you are medium and would increase to 3d8 when enlarged). I think the large bastard sword works best with full BAB classes that are better able to deal with the attack roll penalty. I'd probably go with the falchion myself out of these weapons.
For other weapons the falcata is an exotic 1 handed weapon dealing 1d8 slashing damage with a crit range of 19-20/x3, the Nodachi is a martial weapon with brace that does 1d10 slashing or piercing damage with a critical range of 18-20/x2.
I'd say the extra move speed is more important, unless your gm does most battles mapless and doesn't focus too much on the tactical side of the game. I kind of dislike the idea of having a character wearing the hide of a sentient creature. I kind of have the image of a giant red dragon wearing "armor" made from the skins of dozens of different playable races and a group of adventurers and it's like "What, you got a problem? Now you know how it feels to see the skins of your kin being worn as armor. You want a piece of this scrubs?" :P
I also like the mental image of an oread in stoneplate, but like the description says, it's mostly for dwarves who aren't slowed by armor.
Edit: A large Bastard sword does 2d8 damage and has as -2 attack penalty (and is a 2 handed weapon).
yeah, the morality of dragon crafting is a bit weird.
I think the usual justification for it (other than the 'it is really good material') is that the targeted dragons are usually the ones that rampage and eat humans.
The dragon's overbearing strength and capacity for destruction kind of wipes the slate with morality questions due to sheer necessity. The thing about eating/wearing sentient creatures can be a bit wobbly in application when necessity comes up (lizardfolk practice cannibalism, but they are neutral, and it is played off as a necessity since food is scarce in their swamps).
Dragonhide is certainly the way to go - that extra 5' of movement is well worth it (part of the reason I like the idea of a druid Hellknight - Dragonhide Hellknight Plate is pretty fantastic; but not every character is suitable to be a HK, of course.)
Simply make it from the hide of a dragon species not known for respecting nature; a Red oughta' do it. There are other, more exotic options, of course. A Woundwyrm is a living desecration of nature. Cairn Linnorms aren't much better.
How about a Lizardfolk Saurian Shaman? +2 Str, +2Con, natural attacks, etc. At level 6 you could assume the form of an Allosaurus... Pounce, Grab, Rake. I like the Goliath Druid but manufactured weapons and armor can be Sundered, Disarmed, Stolen, etc.
At this level, Wild armor would definitely be nice but not mandatory, you can always get it later. Just prepare a Barkskin, Lizardfolk already have a +2 natural armor anyway, and wear Hide Shirt armor.
You could also go Heavy Wooden Shield and a Club for the shield bonus but I would prefer using the Claws and Bite attacks. Totem Transformation can increase your speed by 10ft or increase nat armor by +2 if you're still worried about AC... that would put you at an AC 20 with Totem Transformation (shield +2, nat +4, Dex +1, armor +3).
If you're sold on Goliath Druid I think a Scythe would be a delightful weapon with a x4 Crit.
No Oread? There goes the Druid 4, Monk 2 flurry of blows earth elemental.
Druid 4 + shaping focus is a really cool trick.
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I have a flurrying earth elemental monk druid with a single level of monk. Cast Rime frostbite. Earth glide in for your free touch attack. Flurry round 2 with a stunning fist thrown in. Have a resizing +1 adamantine Sansetsukon (or other monk weapon) as a back up if you wish. dragon style and dragon ferocity are very useful for keeping DPR up.
Earth elemental give a net +5 bonus to AC. This with wis and dex, barkskin, snakeskin tunic (or mage armour), and a ring of protection and your will be set for defences.
How about Wolf as an animal companion? They get Large AND get a free Trip on bite attacks. Go Brute Style and Vicious Stomp (very Giant themed) and stomp your enemies flat! Grappling is also great fun when you're bigger.
If you are going into Barbarian, grappling is super fun with Rage... get the Body Bludgeon rage power and beat people with their friends! Muahahaha!
STR is boosted by my wild shape, so I would have both scores pretty high.
Note that in regards to accuracy, the strength from Wildshape merely offsets the lower BAB (compared to a full BAB class).
I'm not sure if I should give him +1 INT to get to 3, or +1 CON to get to 16 (so he gets 1 more HP per level.. it's not much, I know)
Actually, it's 1 HP per HD, which is even less then 1 per level.
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STR is boosted by my wild shape, so I would have both scores pretty high.Note that in regards to accuracy, the strength from Wildshape merely offsets the lower BAB (compared to a full BAB class).
To expand on this your accuracy actually falls way behind. Animal forms provide +1 to hit but your damage increases. Elemental forms provide a net +2 to hit with a scaling increase in damage. You are making up the difference in accuracy with extra attack and extra damage. This can be unsatisfying to play though. If you want to increase accuracy outflank and menacing weapon property would be the most efficient way to do it.
Oops, I actually forgot about the size increase lowering accuracy. Thank you.
If your animal is large animal growth grants that anyway and the buffs it applies are awesome.
I've thought of doing something like this, but what are some wild shape options? Anything I can find that's diminutive has 1 attack, and unless you can take the Spire Monkey for tiny(3 attacks) then its something like an Owl or Hawk for 2 attacks... but you lose out on 2dex..
Pretty much the only semi viable thing I can think of would be wind elemental. They are the dex heavy ones, and have the usual flight.
Yeah, but elementals can likely use weapons (vague implication of hands from the subtype, where they get weapon proficiency if they have a human-like shape; you don't get the subtype, but you do get any functional hands).
With that, you could do things like dervish dance builds. A reach based one too with size. You might have to get an oversized scimitar and pick it up after wildshaping though (the elemental style tends to be troublesome compared to goliath; but if you want to be a giant rock man all day, it isn't that far out of your way).
Not going to say much about the mouser build. I try to avoid multiclass heavy stuff like that, so I can't speak on how effective it can be.
I've thought of doing something like this, but what are some wild shape options? Anything I can find that's diminutive has 1 attack, and unless you can take the Spire Monkey for tiny(3 attacks) then its something like an Owl or Hawk for 2 attacks... but you lose out on 2dex..
You use flurry of blows, probably as a bat. Fly speed, blindsense, and other goodies.
Would that even work? Unarmed attacks for FoB but wild shaped is natural attacks?
You'd have to take Feral Combat Training to use FoB with your natural attacks, just went searching lol
Not flurrying the natural attacks, just flurrying. With unarmed strikes. You only lose abilities that depend on form when you polymorph, which FoB doesn't. You get itteratives as well that way.
I agree with your numbers for the FoB full attack. Except, wouldn't the unarmed strike be 1d2? (Not that it really matters) In most cases it will be +16/+16/+16/+11 due to fighting defensively.
The AC is the real strength of the build. A respectable full attack backed up by an AC of around 43 is incredible.
(10 base + 10 dex + 4 size + 4 natural + 4 mage armor + 2 deflection + 4 wisdom + 5 dodge) which includes barkskin and mage armor.