I've been running Jade Regent, and looking ahead I've noticed that at the beginning of book 4, the whole feasts thing... It basically starts with "and the messenger of the Prince MAGICALLY finds you all, no matter how hard you're trying not to be noticed as you enter the city". It kind of strains belief that not only is the prince actively searching for any random people crossing the world, but he finds them immediately.
... That, and when we started Book 3 (Hungry storm), one of the players was like "wow... Dark... We really need something to lighten up once we're out of this frozen wasteland." And needless to say, my better judgement says that while the feast is quite good at this... A direct meeting with the Prince himself? Not so much.
I'm thinking of just re-writing the entire feasts thing into some kind of festival, and the challenges as some kind of competition or cultural exchange thing. I'm not certain on all the details, such as why exactly certain rewards would be given out for them; so I'd like to hear how everyone else would run this so I can get a good idea of what I can do to flesh it out a bit more.
I was also slightly confused as to the wording of the Prince's "fixation", and what exactly classifies as "non-Tien". Whether a foreign race born in Tian Xia counts, and more confusingly whether a race as ubiquitous as Kobolds when they're born in Tian Xia count; since I can't even tell if Kobolds exist in Tian Xia and whether they'd be native or not. Its hard to tell when they live basically everywhere.
Well, you're arriving at a city where you're the only Westerners/kobolds and the only people to have crossed the pole in months. So unless you're turning invisible, you're going to be noticed and reported by everyone.
And this bit is one of the most 'fun' sections of the campaign. You're treated as honest guests, no-one is (immediately) trying to kill you. I don't think it needs much revision.
Well, you're arriving at a city where you're the only Westerners/kobolds and the only people to have crossed the pole in months. So unless you're turning invisible, you're going to be noticed and reported by everyone.
Its a question of logistics, while simply being noticed is simple enough, the rumour of them arriving is going to take several days to a week a spread if everyone in the city is actually interested.
Even under optimal conditions where guards are posted at the polar gate, and then they take the news directly to the prince (rather than treat it as an oddity and promptly ignore it) it would take half a day at least to take the news to the Prince, and by that point the PCs have already moved on, and have to be found again. Even if they get the entire guard to search for them, it leads to another problem.
That "several days to a week" statement I made? That's also roughly how long it would take to find them once they know about them, since they have to narrow down their physical location using rumours, rumours that take time to spread, and are usually several days old by the time the guard would hear them, meaning if they directly follow the rumours, they'd be several days behind.
To put this is dice terms... Roll a percent die, start at 10 percent chance of finding them and increase the chance of finding them by either 5 or 10 each day. On average it should take either 10 or 5 days respectively.
Expecting the PCs to wait around in one location for any length of time yet alone a week or two, is only going to work if we assume they're Crafting something during that time... Its possible, but unlikely.
And this bit is one of the most 'fun' sections of the campaign. You're treated as honest guests, no-one is (immediately) trying to kill you. I don't think it needs much revision.
... If you ignore the fact the Prince is off-putting, then yes.
I'm also not sure about what happens during a certain aspect of the "fascination" thing, if they rebuke it, does that fact he's angered by this mean the whole "everything in town shuts down for them" thing starts?
The PCs enter the city through its north gate, a decorated tower with a single 30-foot-high reinforced iron door and some 30 guards inside. A caravan coming out of the Crown of the World in the off-season is an almost unheard of occurrence, and the gate guards examine the PCs with barely hidden suspicion. The guards’ examination is strict and thorough, dust swirling around them as they work. Just as it looks like the guards won’t allow the PCs into the city, however, a well-dressed man appears at the gate from within the city, prostrates himself (quite literally) before the PCs, and makes a speech.
Aren't they travelling with a caravan and a dozen pack animals? There's no way to get all that into the city without going through the gate. You need permission (or you need to slaughter thirty guards).
So the PCs arrive, their arrival is reported, and they are held there until the message goes to the Prince and back. It's a small city (population eight thousand, smaller than most small towns in our world), so it shouldn't take more than twenty minutes to walk from one side to the other.
I'd also assume that if the PCs try to hide in the city, they'd be immediately reported by any citizen who saw them - if there's a proclamation out about you, everyone's going to inform on you for their own safety. "Guards! Guards! They're over here!" I can't see you hiding for ten minutes, let alone ten days. And how are you going to hide an entire caravan? The prince could probably get a court mage to scry on you, but he shouldn't need to.
The PCs enter the city through its north gate, a decorated tower with a single 30-foot-high reinforced iron door and some 30 guards inside. A caravan coming out of the Crown of the World in the off-season is an almost unheard of occurrence, and the gate guards examine the PCs with barely hidden suspicion. The guards’ examination is strict and thorough, dust swirling around them as they work. Just as it looks like the guards won’t allow the PCs into the city, however, a well-dressed man appears at the gate from within the city, prostrates himself (quite literally) before the PCs, and makes a speech.Aren't they travelling with a caravan and a dozen pack animals? There's no way to get all that into the city without going through the gate. You need permission (or you need to slaughter thirty guards).
So the PCs arrive, their arrival is reported, and they are held there until the message goes to the Prince and back. It's a small city (population eight thousand, smaller than most small towns in our world), so it shouldn't take more than twenty minutes to walk from one side to the other.
Huh... I didn't quite read this in the book the first time, the first time I read through I jumped around a bit, I think I started reading roughly AFTER the speech, and I somehow got the impression he stopped them in the street.
Also I still seem to be quite unused to the idea of cities being completely walled off... I'm also perhaps too used to the idea of how roads work in modern day. You know... Only really having stopping points at borders between countries, not at cities.
I don't have my copy of Forest of Spirits handy, so I am going by memory here. And I wrote up that episode of my Jade Regent campaign in Amaya of Westcrown.
I played up Prince Batsaikhar as a bored noble looking for hearty entertainment, daring stories, and pretty girls. He favors an exotic foreign look in his women, but will settle for trying to bed any good-looking human woman. The city officials inform him of any newcomers, in case any could entertain him. Despite his local politial power, the prince is mostly harmless, for at 9th or 10th level the party could fight off the city guard, leave the city, and disappear. The relevant factor is that the small city of Ordu-Aganhei is a good place for plot hooks. The module intends for the party to receive a message from Miyaro there. I myself had Prince Batsaikhar sponsor them as a team for the lucrative Ruby Phoenix Tournament, a module that makes an excellent side quest. Many GM, including myself, recommend adding The Ruby Phoenix Tournament to The Forest of Spirits, often as a substitute for the House of Withered Blossoms.
I added features to make the city look tightly controlled, so the party would know they were watched. The palace servants warned of the secret police. Residents could not wear weapons nor spellbooks on the streets. The party stored theirs at their inn. The fighter needed his weapon; fortunately, he was the caravan master and I added that rich businessmen could have one armed bodyguard or carry a weapon on themselves. When the caravan arrived in Ordu-Aganhei, Ulf Gormundr directed them to the proper place to fill out their paperwork and sell their shipment, and then he immediately left town, saying he found the place too stifling.
Selling a shipment is another good reason to stop at Ordu-Aganhei. The Hungry Storm had little treasure, so I paid the party 1,000 gp each for their share of the shipment.
Also I still seem to be quite unused to the idea of cities being completely walled off... I'm also perhaps too used to the idea of how roads work in modern day. You know... Only really having stopping points at borders between countries, not at cities.
I do wonder about how much city walls harmed trade, expansion, etc. But they make a lot of sense here.
Hongal is Golarion's Mongolia. Hordes of mounted archers riding about, looking for loot. Historically, a Mongol horde was unbeatable (by their own standards of what counts as losing). They're faster than anyone and have range. Against most enemies, they can fire arrows and stay out of reach. If they can't beat you, maybe because you brought more archers than them, they can just leave and you can't catch them.
Pretty much their only weakness was walls. (Until Genghis Khan got hold of some good siege engineers and conquered 12 million square miles of territory.) If your city doesn't have walls in this part of the world, you don't have a city for long.
Just roll with the adventure as written on this. Personally I dont sweat the details and mechanics, only use them as storytelling tools. Ordu-Arganhei was one of the most memorable and fun parts of any adventure path I have run. Just my 2 cents worth. Jade Regent is an under-rated AP (I am now running Rise of the Runelords as a prequel to Jade Regent with Tsuto trying to take out Ameiko as a sub plot filler).
Just roll with the adventure as written on this. Personally I dont sweat the details and mechanics, only use them as storytelling tools. Ordu-Arganhei was one of the most memorable and fun parts of any adventure path I have run. Just my 2 cents worth. Jade Regent is an under-rated AP ...
The reviews of Jade Regent rate it low because it often directs the party onto a railroad, a story line that robs the party of their own choices. For example, Luna Protege quoted, "... and the messenger of the Prince MAGICALLY finds you all, no matter how hard you're trying not to be noticed as you enter the city". That is a railroad. In practice, the players don't even have to enter the city, "Goodbye, caravan friends. You have to sell your goods in Ordu-Aganhei, but we are immediately setting off to Minkai."
The GM can correct the railroading by being willing to improvise when the players make choices not covered by the module. Thrud the Barbarian's "Just roll with the adventure," seems an invitation to improvise as needed. I myself like to anticipate my party's actions and prepare possible alternatives in advance, because my pure improvisations are rather flat. With more choices, Jade Regent is an excellent adventure path.
I would ease up on the 'expected to cook a feast' unless someone has ranks in cookingg. Considering how trollish dice can be, it could end up an utter farce
That is a railroad. In practice, the players don't even have to enter the city, "Goodbye, caravan friends. You have to sell your goods in Ordu-Aganhei, but we are immediately setting off to Minkai."
Yes, the players can trivially abandon the NPCs (including, you know, the Empress) and the caravan at any time. They're welcome to go to Minkai by themselves, without sourcing information from the valuable Prince about the lay of the land - in the process they'll miss their guide from the Forest of Spirits, lose their allies and support they've now been travelling with for 6 months, and arrive in Minkai with nothing but their own gear... but, uh, why are they doing this again?
They can refuse to get on the caravan in the first place and demand the NPCs set sail around the world for a pirate game instead. But a certain amount of railroading is a given for an AP, and Jade Regent's descriptor is "Epic caravan journey to Minkai to reclaim the throne."
Guess thats why the call them adventure paths without railroading why would you leave the tavern?
Keeping an eye on this thread. :)