What Levels Need More Adventures?


Product Discussion

1 to 50 of 118 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Jon Brazer Enterprises

Hey Pathfinder Compatible Fans,

Time to ask you another question about what you would like to see from us. What levels need more adventures? While I am at it, are there any themes in adventures that are not addressed enough? I mean like, do you not see enough adventures involving vampires? Or on pirate ships? Or on the Plane of Shadows? Do you want more dwarf/gnome themed adventures?

Tell us what you want to see more of.

Thank you.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

We always need high level adventures. In my case, I mean things for heroes levels 12+, preferably 16+.

Themes: there are so many. More stuff dealing with the planes? Yes please. More vampires? Yes please. Travel down into the depths of the world? Yes please. Support for various subystems like mythic or kingdom rules? Yes please. How about something with the Spawn of Rovagug or a kaiju? Yes please.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Lathiira wrote:
Spawn of Rovagug

Well, this I can't do since Rovagug is Paizo's. The rest, I can do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
Spawn of Rovagug
Well, this I can't do since Rovagug is Paizo's. The rest, I can do.

I'm aware. That's why I tacked on 'or kaiju'. They're both groups of nigh-unkillable monsters of mass destruction after all.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

More level 12 and higher adventures.

I would like to see some adventures that can scale based on group size. I have played in and DM for groups as small as 3 and as large as 7. The standard adventures do not work well in ether case, and the encounters are hard to scale when there is just one enemy per a encounter.

Something like x number of enemy y per a player character. Do not know how hard it would be to add that to an adventure?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

As you well know, higher lvl adventures tend to sell less than lower lvl adventures. This being said, I personally need more late game content. 16+ on average, but it would be nice to go back to 20+ adventures since we now have the mythic system (as I do not know yet if anyone has been bold enough to tackle a rehash of 3.5's Epic rules).

As for subjects: I personally would like to see stuff involving deities, demigods, their spawns, their forgotten creations or sealed enemies, ect. Stuff on a truly epic scale (think God of War, Dante's Inferno, Shadow of Mordor, and Force Unleashed. Things where you step into the limelight and challenge the big named unique foes. Hopefully with better writing than some of the above mentioned).


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm aware that lower-level adventures sell better than higher level adventures. I'm the reverse: I'll buy high level adventures but not low level modules. My compromise point was to say 12+: some people put that at the high end of mid-levels. I'd definitely prefer high than that. I know they're tough to do as well.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I always thought it's a shame not to be able to carry my characters to level 20. Most adventures stop before that because it gets hard to plan an adventure for such a resourceful party of characters.
I don't care a lot about going mythic, but I'd love to see more high level stuff, specially material that could be played after finishing an AP to allow the characters to play until level 20.
Stories involving planar travel are great indeed, alternate realms and bizarre planes were always my thing.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Captain Kuro wrote:
As you well know, higher lvl adventures tend to sell less than lower lvl adventures.
Lathiira wrote:
I'm aware that lower-level adventures sell better than higher level adventures.

I don't know anymore. I mean, for Paizo-sized companies, for when the game is new, when all things are equal, yes, absolutely; lower level adventures sell better.

However, all the adventures I have published to date end below 4th level, except 1 which starts at 7th level and goes to 9th. That adventure sells the best.

And frankly, when you look at the raw numbers of adventures available, it is not hard to see why. Simple supply and demand, there's far more supply for lower level adventures. Plus, I'm a compatible publisher; my best strategy is to carve out a niche, one Paizo does not cover well.

This is why I'm asking. Business logic is telling me high level adventures would do better for me. And you all are telling me that that is what you want. That is something to listen to.

But I want to hear from more people. I want to make sure that it is not just the first 5 people that come in the boards while the next 20+ say mid- to low-level.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Absolutely! A vocal minority can say they want something all they want, but if it's a tiny portion of the whole group...the usual perils of the survey mechanism. Therefore, let's hope a lot of people come in and make comments. Your observation of supply and demand absolutely makes sense with that in mind.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I imagine writing really good adventures at a high level in a concise and narrative manner is difficult. The higher levels really require a lot of GM creativity. A good adventure at those levels would have to provide a ton of options and consider a lot of possibilities.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also, the effectivity and strategies of high level parties can be very variable depending on the party composition so it is harder to cover all the posibilities.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Here is my commentary from nigh-on five years ago:

Should Pathfinder make high level more common?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would have thought, though I may be wrong, that there's a greater market for low level adventures because they require less Pathfinder expertise to run or play in.

Richard


2 people marked this as a favorite.

There might be a greater market but the niche is already covered by many material. The high level niche in the other side, is more avaliable.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd also prefer higher level adventures (16+). As for theme, I'm game for about anything as long as it is interesting.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

One kind of stories I really like are adaptations of real life myths and legends. There are a lot of obscure and not too known legends that could make great stories.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

+1 for high level stuff. And more than four characters. And assuming those are not 15 point buy noobs.

I would ask for sub-system support but the Kingdom rules get too clunky at later levels and I plan to just switch to good old Birthright if my group wants to continue.

Themes - planar travel, space travel, flying ships, artifacts, city destruction, dragons (and another request for kaiju)...

Cheers


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Level is usually not the main thing I look at. Sure more level 10+ would be nice but for me it's about the theme.

Aquatic, Asian and Norse themed adventure will always sell well with me. I would love to see more adventures revolving around Gnolls and Derro as antagonist.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Level is important to me because I like to have long lived characters, and having higher level adventures gives them a longer gaming life.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Glad to he proved wrong! In which case I look forward to seeing what neiche you carve out for yourself. I have alot of your Deadly Delves and Shadowsfall products and think you already have a good system down for your adventures and campaign products, and may want to use Shadowsfall for any high level romps (being Planar already, it is a good.place to find deadly perils lurking).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Definitely more high level (15+) stuff. As for theme, some things I'd like to see are:
1)20+ level adventures (paizo has specifically said that they'll never likely go past 20, which means someone else needs to).
2) More Kingdom building support (after kingmaker, paizo kinda dropped this system, which is sad).
3) More mythic support (also mostly abandoned by paizo).
4)Psionic adventures (Dreamscarred Press did an awesome job on Ultimate Psionics, but we need more adventure support for it).

So basically, all the things I want more of are all the things Paizo doesn't appear to give a crap about supporting. Glad to see there's some 3pp guys willing to take up the slack.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Another request for level 15+ adventures. Even better if you can do mythic rules too. While I understand the reasons why there are WAY more lower level adventures, I still think it's a huge shame that basically a third of the level range (14-20) has so little published content.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Great stuff thank you. Anyone else?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Childeric: Could you be a little more specific on your desire for mythic material? Legendary Games published three big books and a bunch of small ones as support already, and they *massively* expand the system (tons of spells, feats, even mythic class abilities). What are you looking for that hasn't already been done?

@Mr. McCoy: Mmm... this isn't a request, exactly, but if you decide to write some high level adventures, I'd definitely look through the big books (CRB, Ultimate Magic, etc.) and figure out what players are likely to have access to there. You can't possibly predict every use of every spell, but in order to make things a proper challenge, some basic - and cunning - tricks are almost necessary. Limits on divination, teleportation, save-or-lose things versus boss-type foes, et cetera.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Rednal wrote:
@Mr. McCoy: Mmm... this isn't a request, exactly, but if you decide to write some high level adventures, I'd definitely look through the big books (CRB, Ultimate Magic, etc.) and figure out what players are likely to have access to there. You can't possibly predict every use of every spell, but in order to make things a proper challenge, some basic - and cunning - tricks are almost necessary. Limits on divination, teleportation, save-or-lose things versus boss-type foes, et cetera.

Yea, that's kind of a given. Don't make a tower that you walk in; make a tower that requires someone to fly into it. Don't make a trap that deals fire damage; make the place deal fire damage every round they are in there (requiring them to have magic items/spells that will protect them against that), etc. Already there.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Rednal: I was specifically talking about adventures, Since that's what the thread is about.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would like to see more levels of 15+.

I would also like to see an adventure that takes place primarily on another plane.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd prefer more adventures that are somewhere between 7-13. 1-6 is often too low to be able to take on anything of consequence and characters dont have the options and power to take on anything too meaningful. After lvl 12 I always find that combat starts to slow down and takes a lot longer, adding to this the stat block for NPCs starts to get unwieldy in a published adventure and takes up a lot of room.

As for adventures, I'd love more urban, with urban exploration, deceit, investigation, mystery and less combat. One of my favourite things about Eberron was that a good number of adventures were based in the city of Sharn. Paizo published three great linked adventures that had the Pcs first meeting a Sherlock-esque character and then eventually clashing with him and foiling his schemes and again having him return, asylum-bound but no less dangerous. And whilst it was still quite combat heavy, the extra investigative elements, skill focus and interesting urban locations gave it a huge lift. Something that isn't tavern bound or a quest that sends the PCs to explore sewers. I think thats why a lot of gamers particularly liked Curse of the Crimson Throne, because of how the city of Korvosa was used.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just FYI, my plan for publishing adventures of different levels is:

1
1 2 3
1 2 3 4 5
1 2(in progress) 3 4 5 6 7
etc

Richard

Jon Brazer Enterprises

richard develyn wrote:

Just FYI, my plan for publishing adventures of different levels is:

1
1 2 3
1 2 3 4 5
1 2(in progress) 3 4 5 6 7
etc

Richard

Sure, I get that. But here's the question: Is the 250+ level 1 adventures enough or do you need more? How about level 2? And level 3? When is the number of available adventures too small for you to find one that you feel would work with your game?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I tend to buy more higher level stuff, as making your own low level is much easier regard stat blocks n templates

Some high level stuff is sometimes a big dungeony, and I get a bit disappointed if the author doesn't realise that after about 10th level pcs very rarely touch the ground anymore!

Sometimes stat blocks could do with a trim , we don't need to really know the level 0 spells of every baddie, nor all the skills that have only +2 in.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes, difficult terrain might be not so difficult when you are hovering over it.
I'd like to see more roleplaying and social interaction in high level stories, many of the high level content is a bit lacking in that point, like high level game was only made for showing your flashy high level powers to the world. A well developed storyline and a good couple of roleplaying events so the characters can really feel involved in the story is as important in high levels as it is in low levels.
Something that could be cool would be releasing some stories that could fit temathically as a follow up for some popular written AP so people could use the story as a continuation of them.
I know you cannot use the official content but a pirate adventure could be a follow up for Skulls and Shackles or a grim fairytale module could be fit for Reign of Winter.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
richard develyn wrote:

Just FYI, my plan for publishing adventures of different levels is:

1
1 2 3
1 2 3 4 5
1 2(in progress) 3 4 5 6 7
etc

Richard

Sure, I get that. But here's the question: Is the 250+ level 1 adventures enough or do you need more? How about level 2? And level 3? When is the number of available adventures too small for you to find one that you feel would work with your game?

I don't know, Dale. All am I saying is that this is the strategy I went for - emphasise lower levels but gradually get higher.

Sales-wise it seems pretty even at present.

Richard


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm not an expert, but fighting for a niche that is already full of material seems harder. Even if high level material is not so popular there's a lack of it, so there is going to be a less competitive market.
For a new enterprise, finding a niche that is not very explored seems like a good strategy.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's down to demand, as well as supply.

High level adventures aren't going to suit casual gamers very much.

I read somewhere that most RPG groups don't last longer than 6 months.

If you look at the reviews for the Paizo APs, you'll see many more reviews for lower level modules than for higher level ones, with particularly the first adventure getting more than the others.

Richard


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The lack of comments on higher level modules of the APs is easily explained by the fact that a lot of stories end being cut before the AP comes to an end, but that can happen for a lot of reasons.
I'm not denying that lower levels can be a lot more attractive than higher levels for a lot of reasons, only saying that the lack of options for higher level adventures is a good oportunity for filling that niche.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

If I was to ever buy an AP I would buy a high level one.
People say low level campaigns are easier to make, they are, so why would I buy one? I'm much more likely to spend money on something that's difficult for me to make myself than something I could make myself and flavour perfectly for me.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Need an AP starting at 9th or so I guess


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
And frankly, when you look at the raw numbers of adventures available, it is not hard to see why.

My favorite part of that link is that it's deceptive. There's an illusion that high-level play is given more than token support. Specifically I mean that there's the inclusion of adventure path books, which almost no DM is going to rip apart and include in a modular campaign. Especially not the last book.

Really, with my groups the hardest part of finding things to insert as side-jaunts or post-mortems. Sometimes life comes up and a group will have someone who can't play for a few sessions, so it becomes attractive to insert a module into an ongoing (adventure-path-driven) campaign. At low-level, that's easy. At high-level, finding something thematically appropriate is really, really hard. We've already been to the Moonscar, thank you very much. And then, we enjoy playing a few levels after an AP has closed, bringing things up to 20th, or maybe even the low 20s.

I've got a job. I've got hobbies. Hand-fashioning high-level material isn't something I really have time for.

So yeah, another voice for "high-level".


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Add me in to the list of people that want more high level adventures.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Anguish wrote:
My favorite part of that link is that it's deceptive. There's an illusion that high-level play is given more than token support. Specifically I mean that there's the inclusion of adventure path books, which almost no DM is going to rip apart and include in a modular campaign. Especially not the last book.

Honestly, this is a sentiment, I kinda had but definitely could not put into words. Thank you for sharing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thenovalord wrote:
Need an AP starting at 9th or so I guess

A few company did that and it works well.

Frog God Games has at least:
- Rappan Athuk starts at 4th level
- The Slumbering Tsar Saga starts at 7th level

AAW has at last:
- Snow White starts at 6th level
- Rise of the Drow initially started at 6th level (but the prologue shifted that to 1st level)
- Wrath of the Jotunn starts at 9th level.

So there is a market and a precedent for it.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

I added a poll over at JonBrazer.com so I can get numbers, specifically from those that do not want to speak up but need adventures anyways.

But still, keep replying here, please. Having a conversation about what is needed and why it is needed and what kinds of adventures you would like to see is important.


Voted! You already know what's my opinion ;-D


I'm going to kick in a vote for high-level adventures, but more specifically, high-level mini-adventures. Anguish up above kind of talks about that, but I'll expand.

Most high-level stuff tends towards Grand and Epic Adventures, which is all well and good, but tends towards being long and not super-flexible. It's hard to do a one-session demonic invasion.

What would be useful, thus, are high-level adventures that I can basically just slip into a session or a half-session, possibly as a break from the main plot for whatever reason. Things which are an appropriate challenge for level 12+ adventurers, but which don't require me to upend the campaign.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Dreikaiserbund wrote:
What would be useful, thus, are high-level adventures that I can basically just slip into a session or a half-session, possibly as a break from the main plot for whatever reason. Things which are an appropriate challenge for level 12+ adventurers, but which don't require me to upend the campaign.

Something like finding a treasure map, only to discover once you are inside that a dragon has taken up residence inside, yes?


Yay, I'm glad somebody linked the Adventure Finder. :3


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Dreikaiserbund wrote:
What would be useful, thus, are high-level adventures that I can basically just slip into a session or a half-session, possibly as a break from the main plot for whatever reason. Things which are an appropriate challenge for level 12+ adventurers, but which don't require me to upend the campaign.
Something like finding a treasure map, only to discover once you are inside that a dragon has taken up residence inside, yes?

Pretty much or something similar to AAW 2 pages Mini-Dungeon. Most of them tend to range in the 4th-9th range (with some higher and a lower) but that could be another avenue high level smaller dungeons (maybe 4-6 pages long at the most) to be dropped anywhere when needed.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Dreikaiserbund wrote:

I'm going to kick in a vote for high-level adventures, but more specifically, high-level mini-adventures. Anguish up above kind of talks about that, but I'll expand.

Most high-level stuff tends towards Grand and Epic Adventures, which is all well and good, but tends towards being long and not super-flexible. It's hard to do a one-session demonic invasion.

What would be useful, thus, are high-level adventures that I can basically just slip into a session or a half-session, possibly as a break from the main plot for whatever reason. Things which are an appropriate challenge for level 12+ adventurers, but which don't require me to upend the campaign.

I'll expand on your expansion. <Grin>

I no longer remember if the move from monthly to every-other-month (a.k.a. wait, what, I have a modules subscription?) happened at the same time as the shift from 32-page to 96-page but those two changes double-screwed us high-level folk. First, the material is less easy to slot in somewhere. Second, there's even less of it in terms of variety.

I still dip into Dungeon magazine periodically to slot one or two session side-ventures in.

What I'd love to see is a bunch of adventures, say 13th through 19th, each with the adventure content of a 16 or 32 page module. Things going between a Dungeon adventure that might be done in a session and Moonscar/Witchwar (the latter of which I've managed to stretch to at least 3 sessions so far). Either a subscription or a compilation would be fine.

From a reputable company I'd accept Kickstarter if that's what it takes. Paizo charges $18 for their current PDFs. I'd be willing to pay say... $15 for a 32-page and $10 for a 16-page adventure, again assuming I'm dealing with a reputable company. I'd probably be willing to do that regularly.

I'm not terribly concerned with artwork, except where required. Cartography needs to be good because writers like to get creative describing crazy rooms that are difficult to envision. So spend money on maps and diagrams, and anything truly visually unique. Not so much on specific monsters and NPCs - which I'm totally okay with having reference Bestiaries and Tome of Horrors heavily - if it keeps budget down.

Anyway, my expansion has gone off the rails, but hey.

1 to 50 of 118 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Product Discussion / What Levels Need More Adventures? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.