at what level should a PC start getting magic items?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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The wizard has it all.


wait until the group rests for the night. kill the wizard.
take his stuff....

hahahahahaha...

anyway would serve him right. if your dm says otherwise cry foul. and leave.

to the answer at what level. around lvl 6 would be about right.

that said you can get one sooner if it is an inherited item, though I think your dm would kill your character just to let the wizard have it.


If you go by the Automatic Bonus Progression chart, you should get a +1 cloak of resistance, or comparable, around level 3, a +1 armor/weapon around 4th, +1 ring of protection around 5th, and a +2 stat item at 6th and 7th.

And you should still have some wealth left over.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You should take all that wealth and give it to the wizard. It's the only way you might mollify him enough that he might spare you a similar fate.

All should bow to our mighty wizard overlords! It's the only reasonable thing to do.


Yea seems to me like there's a lot of assumptions being made.


Bill Dunn wrote:
Daw wrote:

In a low magic game a wizard will dominate a game with few generally useful magic items.

The wizard is further allowed to create useful items for himself only.
The wizard is allowed to PVP to kill off his only real competition, the alchemist.
In support of the wizard, the GM completely redefines the effect of the Shatter spell.
In support of the wizard, the GM redefines how an alchemists unactivated materials work.
.....
How is this GM not a dick?

Or...

The GM didn't read or pay attention to either the shatter spell's text about affecting unattended items and the alchemist's unactivated materials and just made a bad decision.
You don't really need to assume malice on the GM's part.

Or The OP could have been the disruptive individual as the Alchemist and the GM and other players wanted him to start over...

Or The group could have decided the needed a Cinematic Character death as the OP never claimed they disagreed with the death.


Daedalus the Dungeon Builder wrote:

Hey, there's your way to make up for your missing WBL....

Hoard millions of cats, and overwhelm your enemies with your feline fury!
Just make sure you can control them, and ask your GM how many cats you need to get a swarm.

That works best if you manage to gather a vast horde of Ultharian cats.


Even if Zainale was the conflictive player, and we don't have reasons to suspect he is, would that be enough justification to kill his character? There are much better options to deal with a conflictive player, and twisting the rules to kill a PC doesn't solve anything. So, from what I know I can see some flaws in GMing from a completely objective perspective.

Another things we know this GM did:
-Created NPCs with perfect knowledge that knew that Zainale's PC was a witch even though he tried to hide it so NPCs could harass the witch.
-Put an evil spirit behind the Witch for no reason when a Paladin was casting Detect Evil so the Paladin could think the Witch was evil.


Kileanna wrote:

Another things we know this GM did:

-Created NPCs with perfect knowledge that knew that Zainale's PC was a witch even though he tried to hide it so NPCs could harass the witch.
-Put an evil spirit behind the Witch for no reason when a Paladin was casting Detect Evil so the Paladin could think the Witch was evil.

Here is that thread. And the wizard is pretty bad there also.

/cevah

Shadow Lodge

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The OP is giving me flashbacks: I'm afraid he might be dealing with a 'realist' GM.

Warning signs from personal (2nd Edition) experience:

  • Offers the choice of a completely random background or no background at all.
  • Has three random encounters a night because the dice came up that way, leaving the party in worse shape the next morning than they were when they tried to camp (and this is just in a forest while traveling).
  • Makes low-CR Kobolds incredibly dangerous through numbers, teamwork, coordination, and self-sacrifice for their nest, resulting in a virtual no-win situation (even if you win, you lost a significant amount of resources fighting opponents for little-to-no reward, and not-winning is just the sort of thing you will never live down (if you survive)).
  • Allows the 1st level party to go in the wrong direction and end up in the domain of a very high level evil wizard that was intended for much later in the campaign (As in, level 1 characters vs. Stone Golems).
  • Perverts a wish used to bring a dead PC back to life (now, we did reach a bit by wishing for the PCs equipment to be restored as well (seriously, we didn't want to march for weeks just to get the guy's family heirloom weapon back) but still).

This is the sort of GM who thinks 'if you are taking damage from that AoE, surely your equipment should too' and also decides that falling into a pit trap will probably break any potions you are carrying.

'Realist' GMs can be very nice people and good friends, but if you don't like this campaign style, for the sake of your sanity and all that you hold holy, steer clear of their games.


Bill Dunn wrote:


Wow. Several red flags going off here.

Sounds like the wizard player may be a problem if he's murdering other PCs hoarding the magical gear. Add in the "low magic" game and he's kind of cornering the party market on magic. Chances are he'd have a problem with another arcane caster and find a way to murder your witch character too. kinda hope he will at this point. It will prove to the pally that the demon spawn is slipping down the left hand path. and i will get to bring in a new character.

And the GM's letting him get away with that. How do the other players feel about all this? Player, other player. I think he has gotten used to it. four characters but only three players. guess who has a second pc?

In general, I don't have a problem with a GM wanting to run a "low magic" campaign, but it requires some work to pull off fairly. And it doesn't... well you can only get so many bonus' from masterwork items but they have to be weapons or armor items. witches kinda don't use those.


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Many dickish and bad GMs favor low powered or gritty games, but not all those who run low-powered/low-magic/gritty games are bad GMs.

Many things stated here raise flags though. Players killing each other, terrible judgement, disregard to PC life in general, apparent favoritism, and seemingly random and relentless persecution...

It does look like a bad GM. But running a gritty world, though, is not the reason for it.


The Wizard player is playing 2 PCs or did I understand wrong?


Ravingdork wrote:
Not only did the GM and wizard player get shatter wrong, they couldn't have detonated all your bombs at once since, per the rules, all of your bombs are inert, disparate substances until you attack with them.

i said grenades not my class ability bombs. grenades. and you have to make a save for the shatter spell. and because I was tired of the wizards spotlit stealing and going against the plan to do so. and the fact that i was not paying attention to the fight to focus on disabling the device (in character). i chose to fumble the saving throw with the DM's go ahead. first time for that. that in turn shattered a vial of alchemist fire catching the pc on fire lighting all the grenades on fire causing them to explode and thus destroying the bottles and vials of alchemical weapons that he was carrying around on his chest. the pc's bombs never exploded just his alchemical weapons dealing over 150 dmg to everything in the area of the explosion.


That would have been better if it was made more clear earlier. Despair move, but it did the job.


Kileanna wrote:
The Wizard player is playing 2 PCs or did I understand wrong?

yea two a wizard and a monk.

Taja the Barbarian yea seems like he is that kinda competitive GM.


Well, you can't have magic items, and the Wizard+Monk player has dominance and play well with others issues. I assume from previous threads that there is something that keeps you coming back. He definitely dominates action economy. How complicit the GM is withthis player's dominance you will know better than us.

If you can't have items, have you considered taking the leadership feat and equipping your minions well? This won't work if the GM backs the wizard's apparent need for dominance. Not sure that is solvable.


Yea... honestly it is extremely misleading, dishonest I might even say, to not have mentioned those "details" much earlier on...

You made yourself explode and led everyone on to believe that you were an innocent victim...


no one should be playing 2 characters unless every one is playing two characters


I agree with Lady J on this, but from post/thread histories, fairness is not part of this GM's doctrine, and being subtle about favoritism is not in his skillset. I could spin it by positing that he needs to have his favorite to get the game to run the way it wants. Not an endorsement for GM quality either for a continuing game.


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zainale wrote:
i said grenades not my class ability bombs. grenades. and you have to make a save for the shatter spell. and because I was tired of the wizards spotlit stealing and going against the plan to do so. and the fact that i was not paying attention to the fight to focus on disabling the device (in character). i chose to fumble the saving throw with the DM's go ahead. first time for that. that in turn shattered a vial of alchemist fire catching the pc on fire lighting all the grenades on fire causing them to explode and thus destroying the bottles and vials of alchemical weapons that he was carrying around on his chest. the pc's bombs never exploded just his alchemical weapons dealing over 150 dmg to everything in the area of the explosion.

More GM rules failures.

1) Shatter cannot target you. Shatter with an area cannot affect your equipment. The only way that flask can shatter is if the wizard targets it while it is in your possession. He cannot target it unless it is out. If it is in your pack, he has no line of sight or line of effect. Rude at best, but given what else he does, I think it is PVP.
2) An Alchemist's Fire that shatters does do fire damage, but does not set you on fire. You can roll to put the flames out before full damage, but you are not "on fire".
3) Had you been on fire, each item you carry gets its own save to avoid damage. As all these items are attended, they use your saving throw. (See Catching on Fire). You do not mention making a lot of saving throws, not just for the grenades and alchemical fires, but also for your weapons, clothing, and so on. The failure to do this also shows the GM is playing fast and loose with the rules.

The choice to "fail" that initial save is your own choice, and should have affected you as a simple Alchemist's Fire that was thrown at you. Your choice. Your pain. The additional fallout, however, is the GM's fault.

/cevah


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zainale wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Not only did the GM and wizard player get shatter wrong, they couldn't have detonated all your bombs at once since, per the rules, all of your bombs are inert, disparate substances until you attack with them.
i said grenades not my class ability bombs. grenades. and you have to make a save for the shatter spell. and because I was tired of the wizards spotlit stealing and going against the plan to do so. and the fact that i was not paying attention to the fight to focus on disabling the device (in character). i chose to fumble the saving throw with the DM's go ahead. first time for that. that in turn shattered a vial of alchemist fire catching the pc on fire lighting all the grenades on fire causing them to explode and thus destroying the bottles and vials of alchemical weapons that he was carrying around on his chest. the pc's bombs never exploded just his alchemical weapons dealing over 150 dmg to everything in the area of the explosion.

It's sounds fairly cinematic to me, by which I mean a fitting end for an alchemist character you seemed to want to die. In a home game, slavishly sticking to the precise wording of every rule isnt the only way to play the game. Particularly when when common sense, plot, style and player intention favours another way. The rules for how a crate of grenades explode is very unsatisfying and implausible.

It sounds like the wizard player is the problem (or not if they were aware of the alchemists feelings).

If seems like some key issues are

1. Why isn't the party loot being shared equally?

2. Are you comfortable with PvP?

Both these are group issues not GM issues. Of course everyone saw what they wanted to see and jumped on the bandwagon of Terribad DM.

Regarding magic items (which was after all your original question) I would say the point to get magic items is the point where it would be fun which to mind my mind is the first session. I'm also a firm believer that you can have too much of a good thing and that the Christmas tree effect is bad for the game.

I've seen new player wealth dealt with in several ways. It can be a concern that a new player with the benefit of OOC knowledge and full access to the lists can get an unfair advantage over other players (obvs not the wizard though in this case). As a result some GMs like myself prefer to agree a few reasonable items or provide character specific loot at an early opportunity (which may include taking it off the dead character). If you join the party by being freed by them for instance you're not gonna have your kit in the cell with you.

Let's be honest even though I don't agree with punishing death, some particularly strict DMs dock levels or even make players start again at level 1.

My suggestion is to explain your feelings to the DM, and maybe express concern that this feels like a low magic campaign. Give him the opportunity to redress the balance at the next loot opportunity - easy enough.

I'm sorry to say though, that there is absolutely no requirement on GMs to provide all the big six items and full access to buy items. If you expect this you're begging to be disappointed. Many campaigns run on the assumption that you find your items as loot. Some campaigns may require item access for players to survive but certainly not in all games. Witches in particular can perform very effectively without the big six.


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I don't even get the point of this thread. You killed your character, why are you asking US what your new one should be granted?


Errr... because Zainale has been told no items are allowed and wants to sense check this. Wanting to suicide a character so you can make a new one isn't exactly unheard of! It's a lot more satisfying than them just wandering off one night mid adventure - particularly if the ending is dramatic and heroic - or at least memorable as in this case.


No magic items. And really the worth of what he gets is wholly relative to what everyone else has.

Unless he provides us with the full list of what the other characters have, what he had, what is generally available in the world, and what kinds of enemies they tend to face, random strangers on the internet cannot provide any relevant feedback.


Goblin_Priest wrote:

No magic items. And really the worth of what he gets is wholly relative to what everyone else has.

Unless he provides us with the full list of what the other characters have, what he had, what is generally available in the world, and what kinds of enemies they tend to face, random strangers on the internet cannot provide any relevant feedback.

Which is kind of the advice that was given. Zainale already explained that GM wants to limit items by controlling what is given out. That's a very common way of dealing with treasure.

- check what other players have
- speak to the DM.

For the record, Zainale never misled anyone. There was no complaint about a character dying. The shatter discussion was all tg expressing off topic opinions. Pretty harsh to claim dishonesty or that you were misled.


We've also been lead to believe that at least one character, the Wizard, has a pretty large stash of items either from loot or crafting.


But even though PVP might not be a real problem, there's the problem of no useful magic items.

zainale wrote:

Title: at what level should a PC start getting magic items?

so your starting a new character at level 6. now the idea is that the PC has some how gotten to that level some how. would such a character have picked up a magic item along the way before you started playing them?

You should probably get your first permanent magic item somewhere between level 2 and level 4, assuming you are in a "typical" PF game, that you didn't have to buy a boatload of masterwork/special material gear, didn't start in a Skulls and Shackles sort of no-item prison, haven't outright rejected magic items you have, and haven't been wasteful with your money. As for a "typical" game, I mean that characters have somewhere near their WBL, magic items are decently available and priced as suggested, and that you're not working off of alternative rules or houserules that alter the necessity of items or WBL - namely Automatic Bonus Progression. As for outright rejecting magic items - this can be for multiple reasons, sometimes flavor (Cleric refuses to use a spear because it draws blood), proficiency (Rogue can't use a katana), mechanical advantage (Fighter won't use a +1 shortbow when he has a WF/WS longbow), redundancy (6 Cloaks of Resistance, 5 party members) or just because it is awful or cursed (Glowing neon pink vintage floral Cloak of Elvenkind). Heavy armor characters are a little behind, since they often shell out ~2500 for masterwork full plate, weapon, and shield.

By level 6, you should almost certainly have magic items, and probably should have multiple ones, regardless of class. Certain GMs might not allow you as much (or any) starting gold after a character death, reasoning that you have a full player's worth of wealth in the party coffers, looted from your previous character's corpse. But even if this is the case, and you only get half back because you had to sell everything, you should still have enough to get a magic item. And this doesn't seem to be the case. I suspect the GM thinks of gear in older edition terms, where magic gear was often unpredictable and dangerous, but at best a luxury and not as a necessity. Decent, uncursed gear selection in mid to high-level Pathfinder is absolutely necessary, and you should make sure your GM realizes this. If your GM has been quietly compensating and lowering CR (to make it easier) in ways you don't see, then maybe this magic item thing is overblown. Though given the way your GM treats the Wizard, I think it is a problem, and might only be part of a larger problem.

I mean, either that, or you're just messing with us. You've described the Wizard+Monk as the GM's "favorite", which seems pretty consistent. But you've described your actions when the Wizard blew you up alternately that you "chose to fumble the saving throw", and that the Wizard " """accidentally""" murdered my old PC". Please keep your story straight if you want helpful advice!


Goblin_Priest wrote:

No magic items. And really the worth of what he gets is wholly relative to what everyone else has.

Unless he provides us with the full list of what the other characters have, what he had, what is generally available in the world, and what kinds of enemies they tend to face, random strangers on the internet cannot provide any relevant feedback.

well the wizard in the party has all of the things and every one else has none of the things cuz the wizard takes all of the things and doesnt let the party have any of the things in addition the wizard crafts stuff for themselves meaning the wizard has like the entire parties welth by level and then some and the rest of the party has zilch


Lady-J wrote:
Goblin_Priest wrote:

No magic items. And really the worth of what he gets is wholly relative to what everyone else has.

Unless he provides us with the full list of what the other characters have, what he had, what is generally available in the world, and what kinds of enemies they tend to face, random strangers on the internet cannot provide any relevant feedback.

well the wizard in the party has all of the things and every one else has none of the things cuz the wizard takes all of the things and doesnt let the party have any of the things in addition the wizard crafts stuff for themselves meaning the wizard has like the entire parties welth by level and then some and the rest of the party has zilch

Technically, it's split between two characters (of the same player), the Wizard and his Monk. The Wizard+Monk appear to have about 100% of the expected party WBL. Since the Wizard player has basically crafted everything for himself, that doubles the value. Judging from the source below, the Wizard player split the wealth 2/3 for himself and 1/3 for the Monk. Assuming 4 characters worth of wealth, split among 2, we end up with the Wizard taking 267% and the Monk with 133% of the party wealth. So the Monk has about 267% of what he should have, while the Wizard has about 533% of his expected wealth.

It seems as if the Paladin has around 50% of his expected wealth in items, since he has an 8k gp pickaxe when his WBL should be 16k.

Source: This post
Notes:
Wizard is definitely a crafter, can make a fire staff, improve a bag of holding, and make golems
Party size is probably 4 - Wizard (Wizard player), Monk (Same Wizard player), Paladin (Other player), and Alchemist/Witch (Zainale). Party wealth is >60k, which is on-track for a 6th level party with 4 characters, each with 16k wealth.
Wizard player appears to have spent ~1/3 (33%) of the party wealth on a grabby construct arm for the Monk, then some indeterminate (but probably large) amount on various wizardy items. I suspect he spent at least ~15% on the staff, based on the crafting cost (9450 gp) for the CRB Staff of Flames.

A +1 icy burst pickaxe will cost at least 18k, which suggests that party total wealth is a hefty amount larger than 60k. If it is literally unable to crit, it's a +1 frost pickaxe, which is still worth 8k. That's more wealth than expected for a 6th level party of 4. Either there's a 5th party member, Zainale is starting at a lower level than the other party members, the party has a bit of extra wealth/advancement, or the GM is selectively detaching magic items from party wealth. I suspect it is the latter, since it overwhelmingly favors the Wizard, who is the GM's favorite. It appears the Wizard is the only one able to use money to get magic items anyways.


i have died twice once at fourth lvl with all his wealth. then again with most his wealth in the "party pool" and the magic items where lost so the wizard would not snatch them up. lets say half of his gp is in the party pool. the witch has a neat spell called secret coffers so she has all her treasure hidden in that. that pick axe was found.


So wait, quick check:
How many party members do you have? If there are any besides the Monk, Wizard, and Paladin, what class are they?
You guys are all at 6th level, right?
What magical gear does each character have? Use specific names if the items have specific names, such as "Staff of Fire" vs. "a fire staff".
What magical gear does your party have that your party isn't using?
What have you been allowed to spend your money on?
How much party wealth is left? This includes all the money the Wizard has stolen but not spent on magic items.
Did the GM let your party divvy up your old character's remaining wealth?
What crafting feats does the Wizard have?


Buy a mansion and an arena, retire and offer to take the other players through an arena-themed adventure hosted by your PC (now NPC).


If your GM says it's fine to have it considered built rather than bought ahead of time you could buy a university that I just made that costs 11610 gp to build and makes you 140160 go a year before manager.
I'd link but I'm on mobile. Will link later if you want.


Hmm, I'm skeptical. I didn't think there were any rooms/organizations that efficient at cranking out the gold.

Can you post the link later?

Dark Archive

James Gibbons wrote:

If your GM says it's fine to have it considered built rather than bought ahead of time you could buy a university that I just made that costs 11610 gp to build and makes you 140160 go a year before manager.

I'd link but I'm on mobile. Will link later if you want.

I want it.


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Oh shoot, that's 140160 silver whoops. So 14016 gold is still pretty good, but sorry to get your hopes up.

This small University sits on a cliff overlooking the coast. The Campus is split into 9 buildings, all connected. It’s suitable for hundreds of students, up to 50 of them in on campus residence.
Five of them are colleges (Military, Magic, Bard’s, Trades, and Herbalist)
The other Four are the Dormitories, Administration, Security and Library.
The Military College is where most large events happen. Pleanty of nobles sending their kids here. In front is a large courtyard which has paths to the other buildings on campus. The interior of the building has a lecture hall, a dojo for sparring and a grand ceremonial room. Attached is a sports field. This arena has the equipment for equestrian events but is also suitable for many outdoor activities.
(Ceremonial Room 1180/10, Classroom 250/8, Courtyard 180/5, Dojo 310/8, Sportsfield 790/10 Total 2710/41)
The Magic College is a little taboo, but it’s much safer than trying to learn magic on your own. It’s got a lecture hall like the other colleges, but it’s main item of interest is it’s library. It’s collection has everything any arcane collection would have as well as tombs that aid in spellcrafting research. It also has many specialized areas including a scrying room, a summoning chamber, an alchemy lab and even a burial ground that has been charged with negative energy to give the students a chance to work first hand with undead.
(Alchemy Lab 390/10, Burial Grounds 550/4, Classroom 250/8, Magical Repository 730/12, Scrying Room 550/2, Summoning Chamber 1040/0, Total 3510/36)
The Bard’s College is smaller but more exciting for sure. It’s a lecture hall and a ballroom. On it’s second level it’s got an Observatory for viewing the night sky. It’s even got a workroom for Artisan’s creating traps.
(Artisan’s workshop 360/10, Ballroom 760/10, Classroom 250/8, Observation dome 440/5, Total 1810/33)
The Trades College is where most common people tend to go. The equipment here is useful for practical skills. It has 5 workstations all in one large room, as well as a scriptorium and s classroom for larger groups. The workshop has a Forge, Textile equipment with a loom, a station for leatherwork, a workbench for clockwork and a workbench for carpentry.
(Classroom 250/8, Clockwork Shop 360/10, Forge 370/10, Leather Workshop 310/10, Scriptorium 320/5, Sewing Room 300/10, Workstation 300/8 Total 2110/53)
The Herbalist’s College is the smallest of all the buildings. It’s one room with brewery equipment lining the walls and a space with tables as a classroom. Behind that are three large gardens, one with herbs, one with alchemical and magical reagents, and one with a wide variety of crops .
(Brewery 380/10, Classroom 250/8, Gardens(x9) 180/8 Total 2250/90)
The lodge is the Tallest building, set pretty close to the center for easy access from all buildings. The first floor is an open room with tables and chairs, along with an open concept kitchen. Other rooms on this floor are the lavatory and a bath with a sauna. The second floor is a communal livings space for 50 students. One more floor up is the Teacher’s rooms, suitable for ten teachers. Lastly at the top of the tower is the bedroom and private dining room of the headmaster. This building is cleaned and has a chef, so board’s not free.
(Bath 130/3, Bedroom 300/3, Bunks(x5) 400/8, Common Room 300/7, Kitchen 160/4, Laundry 120/3, Lavatory 120/0, Lodging 430/12, Sauna 120/3, Sitting Room 480/0, Total 4160/43)
The Administration Building is the most Coastal, and has stairs to access the docks down the cliff at the water. It’s also the building with door access to the sewer. The sewer goes out directly to the water down current of the docks. The building can be seen from nearly anywhere on campus thanks to it’s belltower. The facility stores all of the campus supplies. The front part of the building has a desk area where anyone can come for administrative need, as well as an office for the headmaster. Out front there is a stall for several horses/
(Belltower 450/1, Dock 320/12, Office 120/0, Sewer Access 110/0, Stall 250/8, Storage 120/2, Storefront 190/5, Total 1550/28)
The Security Building a squat tower and serves as the front gate. The gatehouse has two stories. It is flanked by the Armory and the Infirmary. The guard’s bunkhouse is attached as well. Extending to either side of the building is a wooden wall with a walkable parapet. With the cliff on one side this can extend all the way around the campus. The gate has a built in gauntlet. The gatehouse and Armory make this come staffed with competant armed guards.
(Armory 390/0, Defensive Wall 260/0, Gatehouse (with gauntlet) 630/0, Infirmary 370/8, Bunks 400/8, Total 2050/16)
Finally there’s the Library. It’s got a specialized section for every set of knowledge except arcane, which can be found at the magic college. (Book Repository(x9) 460/8 Total 3680/64)

(Military 2710/41, Magic 3510/36, Bard’s 1810/33, Trades 2110/53, Herbalist 2250/90, Lodge 4160/43, Admin 1550/28, Security 2050/16, Library 3680/64, Total 23,830/404)
This total 23,830gp assumes you bought it, which is double the price of if you built it (11,915gp). This nets you a bonus of 404 on you check. Take ten that’s 414/10 gp per day. Add a statue to bump it up to 415 if you like neat numbers.
41.4gp *365days = 15,111gp per year. I actually increased the amount of garden space. If you want more income just keep doubling down on herbalist’s college and make in an agriculture college. There’s lots to expand on, like the stables and amount of guards.

Remember buildings assume they’re staffed with unskilled labourers so you don’t have to add organizations but you can if you want a more useful or competent faculty. Having a military college also justifies you beefing up your campus security to be basically an army.


Be aware of material operating costs, such as buying new pens, ink, paper, recently published books, cleaning supplies, food, cleaning supplies, raw material for textiles, wood, ore, medical supplies, obscure magical ingredients, expensive black onyx, maybe diamond dust, alchemical reagents, utilities, the land to build this all on, and the tax on the land, if you are not the sovereign. Routine repair and replacement for theft should also be in your budget, as well as insurance or protection from damage. I'd expect the magic and alchemy colleges to need an extra level of protection, given the nature of people who study alchemy.


Ink paper and pens is covered. Taxation rarely happens but yes, it's 1% of building cost. You should consider each of the 9 buildings different for events. Events are 20% +5% per day until another happens than it goes back to 20. This is not rolled per building. If you hit an event it is then randomly rolled for which building. You HAVE to get a manager. But your manager doesn't have to be for only one business. Technically your manager only has to show up to each building once every 29 days to show everyone you're still in charge. You still have to pay them for every day though.

You've got enough money. Maybe fortify the alchemy lab so it has fire resistance.


make sure each text book is 100-300 gold minimum otherwise it wont be realistic times that by a coupple hundred students and you got yourselves a mighty big influx of gold


Lady-J wrote:
make sure each text book is 100-300 gold minimum otherwise it wont be realistic times that by a coupple hundred students and you got yourselves a mighty big influx of gold

Instead of just having each textbook be 100-300 gp, you should have the scribe school write/copy textbooks, have the artisans do the leatherwork and book binding, the alchemists (and artisans, I guess) should make the paper, and the mage school should invent "Detect Copyright Infringement". Although normal nice PF books are about 50 gp, with a few rare ones worth 100 or 150 gp, so you might have to end up charging 50. Maybe you could invent a press with movable type, to take the scribes' work out of the equation.

I suspect your teacher cost might be higher, since you're selecting minimum wage hirelings. At the very least, they'll need to be trained hirelings. You might not need someone like a Sage (15 gp/day), but you'll definitely want someone more competent than some 1 sp random you pick off the street. To attract nobility, this will definitely be the case. Otherwise, you'd be running a fairly low-quality school, since I doubt you're going to learn a trade from someone who knows just as little as you do.


oh also have tuition be 50000 gold per year

Grand Lodge

James Gibbons wrote:

Oh shoot, that's 140160 silver whoops. So 14016 gold is still pretty good, but sorry to get your hopes up.

This small University sits on a cliff overlooking the coast. The Campus is split into 9 buildings, all connected. It’s suitable for hundreds of students, up to 50 of them in on campus residence.
Five of them are colleges (Military, Magic, Bard’s, Trades, and Herbalist)
The other Four are the Dormitories, Administration, Security and Library.
The Military College is where most large events happen. Pleanty of nobles sending their kids here. In front is a large courtyard which has paths to the other buildings on campus. The interior of the building has a lecture hall, a dojo for sparring and a grand ceremonial room. Attached is a sports field. This arena has the equipment for equestrian events but is also suitable for many outdoor activities.
(Ceremonial Room 1180/10, Classroom 250/8, Courtyard 180/5, Dojo 310/8, Sportsfield 790/10 Total 2710/41)
The Magic College is a little taboo, but it’s much safer than trying to learn magic on your own. It’s got a lecture hall like the other colleges, but it’s main item of interest is it’s library. It’s collection has everything any arcane collection would have as well as tombs that aid in spellcrafting research. It also has many specialized areas including a scrying room, a summoning chamber, an alchemy lab and even a burial ground that has been charged with negative energy to give the students a chance to work first hand with undead.
(Alchemy Lab 390/10, Burial Grounds 550/4, Classroom 250/8, Magical Repository 730/12, Scrying Room 550/2, Summoning Chamber 1040/0, Total 3510/36)
The Bard’s College is smaller but more exciting for sure. It’s a lecture hall and a ballroom. On it’s second level it’s got an Observatory for viewing the night sky. It’s even got a workroom for Artisan’s creating traps.
(Artisan’s workshop 360/10, Ballroom 760/10, Classroom 250/8, Observation dome 440/5, Total 1810/33)
The Trades College is where most common people tend to go....

Whoah, nice. Probably best to have some skilled tutors, however.

Grand Lodge

My Self wrote:
Maybe you could invent a press with movable type, to take the scribes' work out of the equation.

That's a very different kind of alchemy, to tell you The Truth. ;)

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