Need some help with a cleric build


Some friends and I are starting up a group that will start running the Crimson Throne AP in a couple of weeks. Most of these guys have little to no experience with RPG's. So far we're playing a barbarian/invulnerable rager, a knife master/scout, a wizard conjurer/teleporter (me), and a Dwarven Forgemaster. There are two more guys joining, don't know what they will be yet.

The guy playing the Forgemaster is asking for help. I don't know much of anything about them. He is 100% dedicated to playing him, and even hand-painted a mini for when we start gaming. Here is his brief description of how he envisions the character:

"I want to play my cleric as like a second row character, behind the tank, buffing him with my spells and runes I can inscribe. To battle, I want to be able to throw a strong, maybe eventually magical, Warhammer that I can inscribe the "return" rune on, so it appears back in my hand next round (yes, like Mjollnir lol). Light or medium armor is fine."

Can anyone help with feat selection for this guy? These are his initial stats, with racial modifiers:

Str 12
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 5


looks like he should be focusing on spells, Buff spells for support of Save or Suck spells for offense.

He should focus on spells, and just remind him that he looses the ability to channel, so the party has to play smarter as well.

The stats are sound, but as a second liner, i would not have put so much into con, and put it into the dex if he intends to be throwing.

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Would he be willing to consider spiritual weapon "throwing" a "hammer?" Then he can use his Wisdom for attack and damage on his attacks.

He might even want to get a longspear and some Combat Reflexes. Or maybe a longhammer?

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Longhammer is hard to get without feats and clerics are feat-starved. But second the longspear and combat reflexes. I would try to get strength up, just to make use of all the great cleric buffs and be versatile. You can cast and take attacks of opportunity.

Returning is a rune that a forgemaster can pick up at 4th level, no problem there. The trouble is that throwing a light hammer (he'll have to wait a little longer to throw a warhammer) for 1d4+1 damage is not worth the action it takes to do so at 4th level. Even buffed with divine favor and fate's favored to raise the bonus only makes it 1d4+3 damage.

12 strength and 12 dexterity is a bad start to being good with throwing weapons. Basically everything that makes them better requires at least 13 in one of those and/or a class which isn't forgemaster cleric. Is there any room to move on any of those things?

Sovereign Court

I remember a thread where someone was making a "Thor" character with a returning hammer using the Warpriest with the Air blessing to remove range increment penalties. If your player is willing to go with that then it may be better. Alternatively, you could allow the Forgemaster to trade the Artifice domain with the Air Blessing from Warpriest to cater more to the player.

The Magic Trait "Transmuter of Korada" works well with the Forgemaster. That will further increase the advancement of Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon which will help the party out. Spending feats to further increase the caster level isn't really worth it though, so I'd just stick with the trait.

If he's planning to buff stuff, then certain feats are very handy:

Scribe Scroll -- leverage the cleric's spell selection so he always has the right spell available.

Reach Spell -- allowing him to get off cure spells or touch buffs at longer range. (May not be necessary if the party always sticks close together.)

Extend Spell -- cast long-duration buffs before combat begins, winning the action economy in spades

Other than that, his feats should probably focus on supporting his weapon throwing.

JDawg75 wrote:

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Can anyone help with feat selection for this guy? These are his initial stats, with racial modifiers:

Str 12
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 5

This appears to be 20 point buy, but as a non-front-liner throwing weapons, does not need as much Constitution, but needs more of both Strength and Dexterity (and Dexterity 14 opens up Combat Reflexes and Reach tactics); as mainly a buffer with respect to spellcasting, does not need quite as much Wisdom. Try this:

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 17 (put level-up ability score increases here)
Cha 5

Alternatively, for more focus on throwing, try this:

Str 15 (put 1 of the 1st 2 level-up ability score increases here)
Dex 15 (opens up Two-Weapon Fighting; put 1 of the 1st 2 level-up ability score increases here)
Con 12 (get Toughness or the Unstoppable alternate racial trait, which includes Toughness, to compensate for lower Constitution)
Int 14
Wis 16 (put level-up ability score increases here after the 1st 2)
Cha 5

Get Steel Soul as one of your feats (improves the Hardy racial trait) or the Unstoppable alternate racial trait (which trades out Hardy, but gives Toughness as a bonus feat). If you have enough Dexterity (see 3rd set of ability scores above), get Two-Weapon Fighting and Quickdraw so that you can become a throwing machine gun (you will also want archery feats so that you can throw decently against opponents engaged in melee with your allies).

One trick that could potentially work very well at low level if he intends to tandem from the second row as warhammer thrower with a barbarian tank is this:

both him and the barbarian would need to take it. k/

+2 to hit on the throwing action is cool start but the auto-triggering of an attack of opportunity from the barbarian should be a real money maker at low levels...

If both barbarian and forgemaster are allowed to retrain this could be a very cool mechanic at the low levels before the clerics spells hit the stride and the barbarian has multiple attacks to murderate stuff without help.

Definately agree with tonyz advice on feats.
Any class which known's it's entire spell list benefit soooo much from Scribe Scroll

As others have said, strength and dexterity need to be higher to effectively fight. Wisdom doesn't actually need to be all that high to cast helpful spells; it matters most when using spells that target enemies. If the plan is to help allies with spells and attack enemies with a hammer, more physical stats are better.

Maybe something like: 16STR, 15DEX, 12/14CON, 12INT, 13/15WIS, 7\5CHA.

Forgemaster isn't very generous with uses/day of runes. If he's planning on continually using a Returning-runed hammer, that's going to take-up most or all of his uses/day if he wants to have the ability 'always on'. If he's looking at using the ability as a short-duration thing, he should realize that it's going to suck-up time in combat that he could be doing something else, like throwing his hammer or buffing-up himself or others.

Any Cleric who wants to fight in any way should be looking at Divine Favor and Divine Power, and the Fate's Favored trait. Divine Favor is very helpful with throwing attacks in particular, since getting damage and accuracy up with throwing is a challenge.

Deliquescent Gloves add a nice damage bonus to thrown weapons, especially if you're throwing multiple non-magic weapons.

If throwing a warhammer, he'll want to put the Throwing special property on it ASAP. In fact, he shouldn't be throwing a warhammer until he has a Throwing warhammer. He can throw light hammers if there's no Throwing hammer available yet.

If I was going to create a build like this, I would take Martial Focus: Hammers and Ricochet Toss and use the runes for hours of Power Strike. Unlike Returning, Ricochet Toss lets you throw a weapon as many times per round as you want.

Feats-wise: Quick Draw, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Martial Focus: Hammers, Ricochet Toss makes a character a very deadly hammer-thrower who can make all attacks per round with a single enchanted Throwing warhammer. Add-in Divine Power, and you've got yourself a serious avalanche of ranged warhammering.

On consideration... for a straight Torag Cleric who wants to throw a warhammer, I would consider going with the Guided Hand feat and ignoring DEX and the usual ranged attack feats. With limited feats and already-split attributes it's probably the easiest way to go; one stat for all attack rolls and throws, good strength for damage, everything else is just secondary. Maybe like 16STR, 10DEX, 12/14CON, 12INT, 16/18WIS, 7\5CHA, and items can focus on WIS and a bit of strength.

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As an aside for anyone playing a cleric, Icon of Aspects is great.... allows some fiddling with your domains... slotless too

Take the magic Domain. Then your able to cast your weapon 30 feet and add wisdom on attack roll

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