Hell's Rebels in Irrisen?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


Please, try to keep this thread the more spoiler-free possible, as I still don't know if I am going to be the GM or a player.

I try not to spoil too much the content of APs that I haven't still played just in case I get to play them in a future, that's why I am asking in the messageboards instead of looking to the books and finding out myself.

Would it be possible, with some changes to the characters and encounters to make the events in Hell's Rebels happen in Irrisen or is it everything too much Cheliax-specific? If it's possible, how many substancial changes would be needed? Is there some important event that could not be translated to Irrisen?

As we are not storytelling in Golarion and we have adapted the APs content to our own setting we don't care about misplacing the whole thing, I just want to know if it's possible and how hard would it be plot wise.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Given that Hell's Rebels is one of the most Golarion-lore-heavy APs and it's fully tied to particular country and its history ... I'd say it's something that just won't float. You wouldn't be adjusting an existing AP, you would be writing a new AP from scratch AND rewriting Irrisen.


I was afraid of getting that kind of answer but I had to ask. It's difficult to judge without reading the whole thing, and I don't want to spoil it.

Grand Lodge Contributor

It's an interesting idea and, I think, if you're willing to put a lot of effort in it could work if you picked a settlement near the border with the Lands of the Linnorm Kings. But it's not going to be an easy fit and will require lots of changes. The two regions are quite different after all. It's something I'd consider if I wanted to do it, but I put A LOT of time into preparation anyway.


I don't care about putting effort on it of the final ressults are good.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I could see how this could be an interesting concept.

Basically, "The Rebellion Against The Winter Witches!".

But it will be very, very hard to modify Hell's Rebels into an AP set in Irrisen.

I recommend reading both and then using your favorite parts of each to form a hybrid homebrew campaign.


We've already ran RoW, and both the characters and the players are interested in changing things in Irrisen. They have already mobilized some factions to go undercover into Irrisen to instigate people against the Witches.
That's why we thought it could be interesting to start a new campaign with new characters working to start a rebellion from inside, maybe in a remote settlement.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kileanna wrote:

We've already ran RoW, and both the characters and the players are interested in changing things in Irrisen. They have already mobilized some factions to go undercover into Irrisen to instigate people against the Witches.

That's why we thought it could be interesting to start a new campaign with new characters working to start a rebellion from inside, maybe in a remote settlement.

eh. you'd have to change quite a bit.

like... almost all the monsters, especially in the most fun volumes - 3, 4, and 6 (although they are all great).

1, 2, and 5 wouldn't be super challenging, methinks, to change over. But... you'd also lose the wonderful thematic ending in 6 where the heroes explore the diabolic manifestation of the villain's personal issues. That was really, really cool.


One of the trickiest things is Hell's Rebels is about freeing a *province*, not a country, and how that province interacts with the country is a large part of things. There's some stuff that can be gotten away with on the leadership of Cheliax (who is also dealing with a rebellion elsewhere) that are less likely to work in Irrisen...

... though, if the events of RoW happened in your game, then perhaps if you had a new Queen with shakier power, maybe...? It'd be hard.


We are still dealing with the consequences of RoW, after defeating Elvanna. We are closing some open ties that we left in an Epilogue so stuff like the next queen of Irrisen is still on the open.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Davia D wrote:

One of the trickiest things is Hell's Rebels is about freeing a *province*, not a country, and how that province interacts with the country is a large part of things. There's some stuff that can be gotten away with on the leadership of Cheliax (who is also dealing with a rebellion elsewhere) that are less likely to work in Irrisen...

... though, if the events of RoW happened in your game, then perhaps if you had a new Queen with shakier power, maybe...? It'd be hard.

eh. it's not hard to just retcon Kintargo into Irrisen as a city on the Glacier Lake, or just use Hellgen or Zaplava.

You need to be near the water to use a lot of the material in 2 and 5.

You can always retcon in Vyre as an island-city on the lake for book 3.


Thanks for the ideas, I'm glad to hear that it can be done.
We've already managed to take CotC into a world that is a multileveled megalopolis so this shouldn't be so hard.


Who will be the new ruler of Irrisen? If they (she?) bounds with Hell, it might cut the effort in half.

Further, there are a few templates that can transform a Cheliax monster into an cold-themed monster:

Winter-touched
Winter fey
Frostfallen

Otherwise it might be worth to make up your own - adding cold immunity, fire vulnerability and white fur is not much effort.


The new ruler will be probably decided when we roleplay the Epilogue (the last session ended with Elvanna being defeated). We still have to decide some things, but we wanted to see if taking Hell's Rebels to Irrisen was an option so we could set everything in advance to make it possible.
We still have to take care of some loose ends and solve some minor plots that came out in the course of the story.


Both Kileanna and I are GMing two different campaigns. I have almost finished GMing Reign of Winter and she is currently in the second book of Way of the Wicked. We are trying to choose where to locate Hell's Rebels and who will GM it.

What do you think? Post-RoW or Post-WotW?


Yakman wrote:
Davia D wrote:

One of the trickiest things is Hell's Rebels is about freeing a *province*, not a country, and how that province interacts with the country is a large part of things. There's some stuff that can be gotten away with on the leadership of Cheliax (who is also dealing with a rebellion elsewhere) that are less likely to work in Irrisen...

... though, if the events of RoW happened in your game, then perhaps if you had a new Queen with shakier power, maybe...? It'd be hard.

eh. it's not hard to just retcon Kintargo into Irrisen as a city on the Glacier Lake, or just use Hellgen or Zaplava.

You need to be near the water to use a lot of the material in 2 and 5.

You can always retcon in Vyre as an island-city on the lake for book 3.

You also need a way to make it hard for Irrisen armies to pass, ala the blocking off of the pass part of Hell's Rebels, and you also need a reason for them to come to the table at the end.

Under Elvanna, I'd say it's flat out impossible as written. If you deposed a corrupt local governor, even if they were a threat to her rule, she'd respond by crushing you because the authority of the Witches must not be challenged and it's based on power, not law, so no separation can occur unless you've got an army to resist Irrisen's (which Hell's Rebels doesn't have).

Under a new queen...? *Maybe* it can be leveraged if she needs to focus more on consolidating her power elsewhere and the group can aid it. But you may need to concoct some additional leverage akin to the contract of Cheliax, some external factor that would make reconquest unhappy.

Oh, hm, since this is after RoW, has the favor from Baba Yaga been used? If it could be used to impose some rule that even the Queen has to follow, then that *would* be a usable piece of leverage. It may seem weird to use threat of Baba Yaga as a tool of reform, but flipside, Hell's Rebels does use an Infernal contract with an Archdevil. So if the Favor was used to have Baba Yaga impose, oh, and Irrisen constitution which included some power to the provinces and "the central authority can do X but if they cross the line into Y that is in breach of Baba Yaga's law," then that could do the trick.


As I said, we took a slightly (very) different path from the one presented in the AP so no Baba Yaga's favor in this case.
Anyway, it shouldn't be impossible to think of a reason for the Queen not to take direct actions, we have just to find an appropriate political climate (cold, it's always cold) that could allow it.

With WotW as I think would be easier to adapt for a Hell's Rebels sequel, but I guess I still have a lot to GM to make it possible as I'm in book 2 and we play once in a week if we are lucky.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Given that Hell's Rebels is one of the most Golarion-lore-heavy APs and it's fully tied to particular country and its history ... I'd say it's something that just won't float. You wouldn't be adjusting an existing AP, you would be writing a new AP from scratch AND rewriting Irrisen.

I don't really see the "most Golarion-lore-heavy AP" in part 1 and 2. From what I've experienced as a player, it's not at all "fully tied to Cheliax". These adventures could easily be set anywhere, especially in any kind of "evil kingdom", such as Irrisen, if you want, I think, without having to change much. The beginning of part 3 would also work mostly anywhere where you can place a decadent city on an off-shore island. I can't say much about later parts, though.

Yakman wrote:
[...] especially in the most fun volumes - 3, 4, and 6 [...]

For me, part 3 has been the least fun, so far.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Given that Hell's Rebels is one of the most Golarion-lore-heavy APs and it's fully tied to particular country and its history ... I'd say it's something that just won't float. You wouldn't be adjusting an existing AP, you would be writing a new AP from scratch AND rewriting Irrisen.

I don't really see the "most Golarion-lore-heavy AP" in part 1 and 2. From what I've experienced as a player, it's not at all "fully tied to Cheliax". These adventures could easily be set anywhere, especially in any kind of "evil kingdom", such as Irrisen, if you want, I think, without having to change much. The beginning of part 3 would also work mostly anywhere where you can place a decadent city on an off-shore island. I can't say much about later parts, though.

Yakman wrote:
[...] especially in the most fun volumes - 3, 4, and 6 [...]
For me, part 3 has been the least fun, so far.

Don't judge the AP until you've played/ran/read it in entirety - much can change between the adventures as written and how GM runs it.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That's certainly true. But so far, it seems generic enough to me that it could be set anywhere with minimal work.


I'm glad to hear that.


The trickiest part is a central plot point of the path is the baddie's plan relies heavily on legality as part of the plan.

Lesse, you said you wanted spoiler-light, so I'll put this hidden since it is a rather significant part of the path, but it contains the trickiest aspect IMO-

Spoiler:
The contract with which House Thrune allied with Hell/the Church of Asmodeus to rule Cheliax had a loophole written in so that if certain procedures are followed the province of Kintargo cannot be invaded by Cheliax's armies without voiding the whole contract and losing Hell's support.

So a significant part of the path, most of part 5, is finding the precise details of said loophole, including going to hell to meet the contract writer of that section, and then finding the people who fit the legal requirements to properly set things up.

Which fits quite well with Cheliax and the Church of Asmodeus involved, but that is a rather large chunk right there that I don't think works very well with an evil power that's not capital-L lawful. After all, if something is against the law in Irrisen to do, the Witches just do it anyway because they're above the law, and crossing every T and dotting every i legally speaking won't stop them.

Though some alternatives would be, oh, a magical artifact fetch quest to make a magical barrier or something, or maybe better yet, finding something the new Queen really wants as a bribe. There should still be the legwork of setting things up, but dealing with a completely different political system that doesn't care that much about who signed what.


Thanks a lot for all the advice, Davia, it's being very useful to allow us to evaluate the viability of our ideas. I have a pretty accurate idea now on which points of the main plot should be worked to make it possible without having the whole thing spoiled.
If we go on with this idea, I'll tell you how it went.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / General Discussion / Hell's Rebels in Irrisen? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion