Has anyone made Paladin a prestige class?


Homebrew


I previously discussed wanting to make a low-magic setting with no alignment and with the bad guys having full spellcasters while the good guys have... very little spellcasting. For this setting, I think I want Paladin to be a prestige class.

Has anyone seen a good PRC version of the Paladin? Is there a PRC that fills its role that could be refluffed to match? I'd like it to grant paladin spellcasting at level 1, and if possible I'd like to mitigate the power of Lay on Hands without making the Paladin weak.


D&D 3.5 had prestige class versions of both the paladin and the ranger.


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I really liked the 3E prestige class versions of those classes, and being someone who likes to customize and kit bash characters, I actually preferred them to the base class. A clean pathfinder conversion of it should do the trick nicely.


Yeah - eyeballing those it looks like I'd have to make a few changes at least. The focus on mounted combat and requiring levels in a divine spellcasting class beforehand doesn't jive well for my concept - but it could work.

Any advice concerning Lay on Hands when converting that?


why not just allow paladins but make them take the tempered champion archetype to get rid of spell casting?


Because I actually am fine with Paladin spellcasting; I'm just not fine with Lay on Hands being as powerful as it is in a setting with hampered healing. I also like the flexibility allowed by having it be a PRC in this no-alignment setting (raging paladins, anyone?).

I also like the idea of making someone "work" for those paladin powers, making paladins seem like actual badasses in this world.


Kirthfinder also has a Prestige Paladin that has been moderately updated to Pathfinder. The Prestige Paladin class document gives a Lawful Good Prestige Paladin as an example but explicitly encourages the creation of Prestige Paladins of other alignments.


paladins can alredy rage if you can get the rage class feature from a) any other class with rage besides barbarian or b) barbarian if your dm isnt stingy about alignment resrictions. also lay on hand is hardly game breaking and paladins dont need help being badasses they need help not being stick in the mud lawful good.


On raging paladins: yes, but in this case since Paladin is a PRC the player is able to pick and choose abilities leading up to getting divine spellcasting, smite evil, and lay on hands. That's my point. It makes the paladin a bit more modular.

Lay on Hands is unbalancing in a setting where spellcasters and magical items are rare and there is no magic mart to buy your cure light wounds wands at, nor are crafting feats allowed. Trust me, for my setting Lay on Hands is way too powerful.

Being a "stick in the mud lawful good" isn't a paladin problem so much as a player problem; and that's going to be solved in my setting anyway since there will be no alignment system.

Trust me, I've thought a lot about this. Lay on Hands will be too powerful in my setting to be kept as powerful as it is for the core paladin.

Quote:
Kirthfinder also has a Prestige Paladin that has been moderately updated to Pathfinder. The Prestige Paladin class document gives a Lawful Good Prestige Paladin as an example but explicitly encourages the creation of Prestige Paladins of other alignments.

Thanks for the link. Between that and the Prestige Paladin from 3.5 I'm getting some good ideas.


lay on hand only gets good if the player spends most of their resources(feats and items) to make it good if they dont its just gravy on the top and if your worried about it you've messed with the games mecanics to much


Inlaa,
What is your concern with lay on hands? You could reduce the die size used, or not include the ability score mod in the uses per day, or remove the ability to use it as a swift action. Honestly, I don't think it will be a problem if derived from a prestige class. It will already be several levels behind.

Lady-J,
I don't agree that LOH only gets good with investment. It is good as-is because it can be used a a swift action.


That sounds like a good point, Ciaran. Basically, remember the thread where I mentioned making a setting where the enemies have full spellcasters but the players don't? Yeah, this is for that setting.

But I think that you're right: the stunted growth of LoH should be enough. It'll be useful still, but not as powerful as a core paladin's LoH would be in that game.


Chevalier Sort of does the paladin thing (smite, aura of courage), sans the spell casting / lay on hands / "magical" aspects

Also RE Kirthfinderhere's the latest files. Unsure if paladin has been updated overtly much.


Frog God Games has the Justicar of Muir, a 10-level Prestige Class which is basically a hardcore Paladin on crack. It can easily be reflavored to work with another deity (or general goodness). Personally, I'd probably take out a few of the awkward limits (like limitations on what items you can own) to make it a bit more workable, but it does get full caster progression in one class, so that preference would be met.


Inlaa wrote:

Because I actually am fine with Paladin spellcasting; I'm just not fine with Lay on Hands being as powerful as it is in a setting with hampered healing. I also like the flexibility allowed by having it be a PRC in this no-alignment setting (raging paladins, anyone?).

I also like the idea of making someone "work" for those paladin powers, making paladins seem like actual badasses in this world.

Then why not just say that Paladins don't get Lay On Hands or Channel in your setting?


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Inlaa wrote:

Because I actually am fine with Paladin spellcasting; I'm just not fine with Lay on Hands being as powerful as it is in a setting with hampered healing. I also like the flexibility allowed by having it be a PRC in this no-alignment setting (raging paladins, anyone?).

I also like the idea of making someone "work" for those paladin powers, making paladins seem like actual badasses in this world.

Then why not just say that Paladins don't get Lay On Hands or Channel in your setting?

it would change the balence of the class to much to just flat out remove a class feature it would be like saying rogues dont get sneak attack, or wizards you have 1-2 less spells per day on every odd spell slot(1,3,5,7 and 9) and while it doesnt break the class it hinders it greatly


Lady-J wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Inlaa wrote:

Because I actually am fine with Paladin spellcasting; I'm just not fine with Lay on Hands being as powerful as it is in a setting with hampered healing. I also like the flexibility allowed by having it be a PRC in this no-alignment setting (raging paladins, anyone?).

I also like the idea of making someone "work" for those paladin powers, making paladins seem like actual badasses in this world.

Then why not just say that Paladins don't get Lay On Hands or Channel in your setting?
it would change the balence of the class to much to just flat out remove a class feature it would be like saying rogues dont get sneak attack, or wizards you have 1-2 less spells per day on every odd spell slot(1,3,5,7 and 9) and while it doesnt break the class it hinders it greatly

Lay on Hands is a gravy class feature, but losing it is not nearly the deal-breaker as losing smite. Maybe give them a bonus feat every 5 levels in trade.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Inlaa wrote:

Because I actually am fine with Paladin spellcasting; I'm just not fine with Lay on Hands being as powerful as it is in a setting with hampered healing. I also like the flexibility allowed by having it be a PRC in this no-alignment setting (raging paladins, anyone?).

I also like the idea of making someone "work" for those paladin powers, making paladins seem like actual badasses in this world.

Then why not just say that Paladins don't get Lay On Hands or Channel in your setting?
it would change the balence of the class to much to just flat out remove a class feature it would be like saying rogues dont get sneak attack, or wizards you have 1-2 less spells per day on every odd spell slot(1,3,5,7 and 9) and while it doesnt break the class it hinders it greatly
Lay on Hands is a gravy class feature, but losing it is not nearly the deal-breaker as losing smite. Maybe give them a bonus feat every 5 levels in trade.

it is gravy ontop of all the other class features they get but the class is balenced arround them having it and i would prolly have it be the same as trading in spell casting from the tempered champion archetype for a bonus combat feat every 4 levels but then in combination to casters arnt allowed and you needing to take the archetype any way you would be basically be getting a bonus combat feat every 2nd level and that would put fighters out of buisness trade out weapon training and armor training for cha to saves, good will save, smite and a bunch of immunities yes please


There's the Chevalier PrC written by Paizo. It's not quite a paladin, but certainly its first cousin.


Alternately, you could pick and choose something from an archetype that replaces Lay On Hands - or perhaps require people to pick an Archetype that does so. It's quite possible to remove a feature and keep about the same balance, after all. XD


Firewarrior44 wrote:

Chevalier Sort of does the paladin thing (smite, aura of courage), sans the spell casting / lay on hands / "magical" aspects

Also RE Kirthfinderhere's the latest files. Unsure if paladin has been updated overtly much.

It does seem to have acquired a few archetypes that were only hinted at the last time I checked.

Also looks like the Weapons section of the Equipment document has been updated.

The old link I have been giving has files all dated in 2012, so thanks for the new one.

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