Building a belt of physical perfection+20


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I want to build a belt of physical perfection+20.

I have followed all instructions in the core rule book.
My GM is stuck on the caster level and is saying that
“You can’t make the item because the caster level would be too high”.
He is swearing up and down that the belt is considered a variable.
He says that the caster level is related to the variable and therefore the
caster level to create a belt of physical perfection+20 would be too high so
therefore you can never make it.

Can you please clarify this issue and give me the EXACT instructions on
how to create a belt of physical perfection+20 to include the applicable caster level of the item.

Also, please give me the EXACT definition of what pathfinder means by the word “Variable”.

Thank you for your time.


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The only caster level variable is for armor and weapon enhancement bonuses, like this:

Quote:
Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor.

There is no such thing for wondrous items. Also, if you look at any of the belts or headbands, there is a fixed caster level for all of them, meaning it is not a 'variable'.

Finally, this caster level prerequisite is just that, a prerequisite. And prerequisites can be bypassed for a +5 to the DC unless it's a spell trigger or completion item. So, even if the GM said you need to be caster level 100, you could skip that with a +5DC to the crafting roll.

That said, there is no such thing as a +20 belt in the rules, so the GM is perfectly within his rights to put any restriction he wants on it.

If you used the pricing formula, it would cost 800k.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Anything greater than +6 is outside the design of the system. So your GM may not be able to locate an unwritten rule that tells him he should do so but he feel (correctly) that it shouldn't be done and looked for the magic weapon caster level limit rule.

In short, your GM would make a grave mistake if they allowed +8, +1 or +20.


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Not only is your GM right. Your GM is totally within their purview to disallow ANY item even if the rules allow it, if he feels said item is inappropriate.

The GM runs the game, not the rulebooks. Remember this credo.

And I'd label this item inappropriate even if the campaign was starting at 20/10.


We don't really know what sort of campaign the DM is running. If goblins are running around in battlesuits with chainguns, maybe this sort of item would fit right in. Let's try to keep the judgement to a minimum, though we can recognize, of course, that this item is ridiculous for standard pathfinder assumptions.

I mean, if what the GM is 'stuck on' is the caster level requirement instead of the basic idea in the first place, obviously we're not dealing with a conventional scenario.


So Belt of Physical Perfection +20? Custom item, so first compare to existing items (Belt of Physical Perfection, perhaps). The price is straight out of the formula table at (bonus^2)*1000 for the first and 1.5x as much for subsequent abilities. So 1,600,000 gp for the price (400k+600k+600k). As for the requirements, the Belt of Physical Perfection doesn't change any of the requirements for different levels of the belt so reusing the same requirements would seem to be simplest. But that's a suggestion provided by a bystander, not something exact. It's a custom item, unless Paizo (or 3PP) publishes it somewhere that's the best you're going to get.

Then the final step before trying to make it, convincing your GM that this all sounds reasonable. If they think it does not, then there's nothing we can do to help. They absolutely have final say on custom magic items like this. Since the price of the item is beyond what even a level 20 character could afford the GM insisting it takes more than CL 16 is both logical and reasonable. Personally, I'd probably classify it as some form of artifact.

It sounds like your GM may be used to the old stat spells (3.0 or 2e) which scaled based on CL. The current spells give you a flat +4 <stat>, period. That's why the Belt of Physical Perfection is a flat CL 16, regardless of what level of belt you make. You can try pointing that out to your GM but if they just didn't want you to make the item then it won't help.


Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It is the GM's prerogative to allow or not allow any custom magic item. If the GM says you can make one, then you can't make one. The GM doesn't need a reason within the rules system (like "caster level is too high"), they have carte blanche to say no.

Now, even if the GM did allow it, the price would be astronomical. We know the following prices already: 16,000 gp (+2), 64,000 gp (+4), 144,000 gp (+6)

This cleanly falls under the formula X^2 * 4,000 gp, where X is the bonus. This means a +20 belt would be 20^2 * 4,000 gp = 1,600,000 gp. This is the market price, so the crafting cost would be 800,000 gp, or the vast majority of a level 20 character's wealth by level.


Wouldn't your formula return a cost of 4 000 where x=1? The value should be 8000 right?


Daw wrote:
Wouldn't your formula return a cost of 4 000 where x=1? The value should be 8000 right?

There is no +1 belt, and by design, there shouldn't be.


Yeah, 4000 * x^2 is the correct formula for a belt of perfection.

It would be 2500 * x^2 for a belt that boosted 2 stats equally, and of course 1000 * x^2 for a single stat belt.


This isn't even possible using normal rules, regardless of caster level.

Enhancement bonuses to stats cap at +6.


Claxon wrote:

This isn't even possible using normal rules, regardless of caster level.

Enhancement bonuses to stats cap at +6.

Is this an actual rule somewhere? I mean, with size bonuses, alchemical bonuses, and 'normal' enhancement bonuses, you can hit +20 without breaking the rules, even before things like rage bonuses, but is there a rule saying that +6 enhancement bonus is the actual limit?


_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:

This isn't even possible using normal rules, regardless of caster level.

Enhancement bonuses to stats cap at +6.

Is this an actual rule somewhere? I mean, with size bonuses, alchemical bonuses, and 'normal' enhancement bonuses, you can hit +20 without breaking the rules, even before things like rage bonuses, but is there a rule saying that +6 enhancement bonus is the actual limit?

There are a few (non-core) ioun stones that boost an ability score, and specifically say they stack up to a maximum of +6. Other than that, I know of nothing else that even implies a maximum. Unless someone says that there are no enhancement bonuses higher than +6 in the rules already, so that must be the limit. But that would be wrong.

There is a wizard ability that (Temporarily) grants up to +10 to a stat. So an enhancement bonus to a stat that is larger than +6 does have precedent, at least for class abilities.


Yeah, magic weapons and armor have declared and specific limits on their bonuses. I've seen no such rule for stats enhancements, though I certainly could have missed something.


As a good rule of thumb, though, stuff shouldn't exceed the power of things in the CRB unless it's deliberate and you have a good reason for it. XD

To wit: Why wouldn't everyone else then try to get +20 bonuses to their primary stats? Hello, casters with far more spells and drastically higher DCs...


Game breaking item at any level. IMO


GM Rednal wrote:

As a good rule of thumb, though, stuff shouldn't exceed the power of things in the CRB unless it's deliberate and you have a good reason for it. XD

To wit: Why wouldn't everyone else then try to get +20 bonuses to their primary stats? Hello, casters with far more spells and drastically higher DCs...

Well, because nobody could afford it unless the GM was already breaking WBL bigtime. So again, if someone is running 'that' sort of campaign, we may as well give him the rules that would govern such an item.

The fact that it would break any conventional Pathfinder scenario or campaign is a given, not sure how many more people need to chime in on that.


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Sounds like one of the games I could be in. (You think he would allow 3.5 stuff for me?)

Lantern Lodge

Orfamay Quest wrote:
Daw wrote:
Wouldn't your formula return a cost of 4 000 where x=1? The value should be 8000 right?
There is no +1 belt, and by design, there shouldn't be.

While this doesn't solve the upper limit question, there is an FAQ about +1 (or odd numbered) enhancement bonuses:

Enhancement Bonus: Can I craft an item that gives an odd-numbered enhancement bonus to an ability score, such as a +1 belt of giant strength?

Technically the item-pricing formula in the Core Rulebook allows for items like that, but officially the game should only have even-numbered enhancement bonuses to ability scores. If you want an odd-numbered ability score bonus, you'll need to pay for an inherent bonus, such as a manual of gainful exercise +1.


_Ozy_ wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:

As a good rule of thumb, though, stuff shouldn't exceed the power of things in the CRB unless it's deliberate and you have a good reason for it. XD

To wit: Why wouldn't everyone else then try to get +20 bonuses to their primary stats? Hello, casters with far more spells and drastically higher DCs...

Well, because nobody could afford it unless the GM was already breaking WBL bigtime. So again, if someone is running 'that' sort of campaign, we may as well give him the rules that would govern such an item.

The fact that it would break any conventional Pathfinder scenario or campaign is a given, not sure how many more people need to chime in on that.

Obviously the OP's GM is not running "that sort of campaign". The problem is that the OP's GM is under the unfortunate impression that they have to justify their decision barring the item by rules text, forgetting the cardinal rule of GMing.

"My Table, My Rules. The books don't run the game, I do."


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:

As a good rule of thumb, though, stuff shouldn't exceed the power of things in the CRB unless it's deliberate and you have a good reason for it. XD

To wit: Why wouldn't everyone else then try to get +20 bonuses to their primary stats? Hello, casters with far more spells and drastically higher DCs...

Well, because nobody could afford it unless the GM was already breaking WBL bigtime. So again, if someone is running 'that' sort of campaign, we may as well give him the rules that would govern such an item.

The fact that it would break any conventional Pathfinder scenario or campaign is a given, not sure how many more people need to chime in on that.

Obviously the OP's GM is not running "that sort of campaign". The problem is that the OP's GM is under the unfortunate impression that they have to justify their decision barring the item by rules text, forgetting the cardinal rule of GMing.

"My Table, My Rules. The books don't run the game, I do."

sometimes I run game.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:

As a good rule of thumb, though, stuff shouldn't exceed the power of things in the CRB unless it's deliberate and you have a good reason for it. XD

To wit: Why wouldn't everyone else then try to get +20 bonuses to their primary stats? Hello, casters with far more spells and drastically higher DCs...

Well, because nobody could afford it unless the GM was already breaking WBL bigtime. So again, if someone is running 'that' sort of campaign, we may as well give him the rules that would govern such an item.

The fact that it would break any conventional Pathfinder scenario or campaign is a given, not sure how many more people need to chime in on that.

Obviously the OP's GM is not running "that sort of campaign". The problem is that the OP's GM is under the unfortunate impression that they have to justify their decision barring the item by rules text, forgetting the cardinal rule of GMing.

"My Table, My Rules. The books don't run the game, I do."

Well, since I can't quite read the GMs mind myself, all I can do is offer advice based on the facts given, which was that the GM thought the item couldn't be crafted because of caster level prerequisites, which is incorrect for multiple reasons.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:

As a good rule of thumb, though, stuff shouldn't exceed the power of things in the CRB unless it's deliberate and you have a good reason for it. XD

To wit: Why wouldn't everyone else then try to get +20 bonuses to their primary stats? Hello, casters with far more spells and drastically higher DCs...

Well, because nobody could afford it unless the GM was already breaking WBL bigtime. So again, if someone is running 'that' sort of campaign, we may as well give him the rules that would govern such an item.

The fact that it would break any conventional Pathfinder scenario or campaign is a given, not sure how many more people need to chime in on that.

Obviously the OP's GM is not running "that sort of campaign". The problem is that the OP's GM is under the unfortunate impression that they have to justify their decision barring the item by rules text, forgetting the cardinal rule of GMing.

"My Table, My Rules. The books don't run the game, I do."

Well, since I can't quite read the GMs mind myself, all I can do is offer advice based on the facts given, which was that the GM thought the item couldn't be crafted because of caster level prerequisites, which is incorrect for multiple reasons.

Where he simply could have gone for the much simpler explanation that +6 is the cap.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sounds like a great gaming group there.


Sounds like the GM knew he couldn't allow such an item in the game but, not knowing the exact rules, gave the first explanation that came to mind.
He did the right thing, he only failed in giving an explanation according to the rules.

Dark Archive

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I'm seeing a lot of people being a+++!@%s for almost no reason. How bout we calm down on insulting the player guys? The simple answer is at +20 you are so far out of the rules that it really is your GM's call, but CL isn't a limitation here. However, A situation where you could afford this item would be absurd


_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:

This isn't even possible using normal rules, regardless of caster level.

Enhancement bonuses to stats cap at +6.

Is this an actual rule somewhere? I mean, with size bonuses, alchemical bonuses, and 'normal' enhancement bonuses, you can hit +20 without breaking the rules, even before things like rage bonuses, but is there a rule saying that +6 enhancement bonus is the actual limit?

I'm specifically referring to the enhancement bonus granted by magical items, not other types of bonuses all added together.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Since we're talking a custom item here, the GM can set the caster level at whatever he wants. The normal belts don't have a scaling caster level with bonus, but this item is pretty far past the normal bounds so if the GM wanted to assign a CL of 60 to it they are within their rights. Of course, caster level is not a requirement so all this does is make the crafting DC super high.

Personally, I'd say no to the item in most games. Even using the 3.5 Epic Level handbook stat bonus items didn't go past +12, and a +12 belt would run you 5760000 gp (because the cost of everything is x10 once you exceed the non-epic versions). If I were in such a game where the +20 version was reasonable, another x10 factor for going above +12 and again at +18 seems reasonable. So we're looking at 1.6 billion gp. Happy crafting.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

_Ozy_ wrote:
Well, since I can't quite read the GMs mind myself, all I can do is offer advice based on the facts given, which was that the GM thought the item couldn't be crafted because of caster level prerequisites, which is incorrect for multiple reasons.

As I said above, it is far more likely the GM didn't feel the item was valid but didn't remember/know +6 is a design cap, so went with some other limiting factor.

Not every GM is blunt with players as they should be.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
_Ozy_ wrote:
Finally, this caster level prerequisite is just that, a prerequisite. And prerequisites can be bypassed for a +5 to the DC unless it's a spell trigger or completion item. So, even if the GM said you need to be caster level 100, you could skip that with a +5DC to the crafting roll.

No, this is a common misconceptuon. The CL listed for magical items is just a typical or recommended level and is not a requirement unless it is listed on the requirement line. The minimum caster level for the belt of physical perfection is only the minimum level required to cast the 3 spells, which is 3 (typically).


Claxon wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:

This isn't even possible using normal rules, regardless of caster level.

Enhancement bonuses to stats cap at +6.

Is this an actual rule somewhere? I mean, with size bonuses, alchemical bonuses, and 'normal' enhancement bonuses, you can hit +20 without breaking the rules, even before things like rage bonuses, but is there a rule saying that +6 enhancement bonus is the actual limit?
I'm specifically referring to the enhancement bonus granted by magical items, not other types of bonuses all added together.

Yes, I'm well aware. I'm also pretty sure there is no cap mentioned in the rules, unlike the bonuses for weapons/armor.

That's what I'm looking for.


James Risner wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Well, since I can't quite read the GMs mind myself, all I can do is offer advice based on the facts given, which was that the GM thought the item couldn't be crafted because of caster level prerequisites, which is incorrect for multiple reasons.

As I said above, it is far more likely the GM didn't feel the item was valid but didn't remember/know +6 is a design cap, so went with some other limiting factor.

Not every GM is blunt with players as they should be.

And yet, the question can be answered without making those sorts of assumptions, though one can certainly note that the item is 'out of bounds' for a typical campaign.


Have we considered how long it would take to make such an item? If the belt's base price is 1.6 million gold pieces then it would take over four years to make.

Sovereign Court

If we use save bonus (resistance) vs save bonus (other), note that the difference is twice as much, and extrapolate that to other types of items. We can construct a similar item without going over a +6 to a particular bonus type.

Also, since we are adding bonuses to the same stat now, I would argue that it falls under the multiple similar abilities clause.

For ease of use, I will start with the existing belt of perfection and add to it copies of the belt that have different bonus types since the math will be the same, just a different order of operations. I'll use enhancement, size, sacred, alchemical, and morale as the bonus types. As I can find spells, items or abilities that already grant these types of bonuses (to at least strength). Specifically size (alter self, polymorph works in general), sacred (eaglesoul), alchemical (mutagen, mutagenic touch), morale (rage spell). Alchemical isn't actually granted by a spell that I could find, just an extract. However, icecap ale does provide an alchemical bonus to strength, it is just non-magical, and​ you will be drunk 24/7...
MATH
Enhancement +6 = 4000 x 6^2 =144,000 gp
Sacred +6 = (144,000 gp) x2 = 288,000 gp
Size +6 = (144,000 gp) x2 = 288,000 gp
Morale +2 = 4000 x 2^2 x2 = 32,000 gp
288k + 288k x75% + 144k x50% + 32k x50% =592k

Using all 5 bonus types at a +4 level would be 384k.
Not using the multiple similar abilities, but multiple different abilities rule would put it at 984k for the first example, and 800k for the 5 +4s.
Throw on requires paladin for a 30% reduction, because Paragon of righteousness, and the ease of the GM to manufacture a fall:fall scenario... And 230,400 gp.


Eh, you could get that down to just over a year with +5 DC double rate crafting, and the someone with the cooperative crafting feat.


Firebug wrote:
If we use save bonus (resistance) vs save bonus (other), note that the difference is twice as much, and extrapolate that to other types of items. We can construct a similar item without going over a +6 to a particular bonus type.

If the GM allows that, which she is under no obligation to do. And I wouldn't.

Let's look at a less munchkin -- or maybe even a more munchkin version of the same thing. I only want a +6 in total, so I can make it easier:

Enhancement +2: 16,000 gp
Sacred +2: 32,000 gp
Morale +2: 32,000 gp
Total : 80,000 gp.

So I can get a +6 all my physical attributes for 80,000 gp, less I if play games with price reducers, which is 64,000 less than the straight up +6 BoPP. In addition, it's more versatile, because I can still benefit from (e.g.) bull's strength.

So it's a better item for less money. Nope. Compare the price to comparable items; the +6 Belt of All Sorts of Cheesy Plus Two Bonuses should cost at least as much as the +6 BoPP. This, in turn, renders the formulae irrelevant.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:

This isn't even possible using normal rules, regardless of caster level.

Enhancement bonuses to stats cap at +6.

Is this an actual rule somewhere? I mean, with size bonuses, alchemical bonuses, and 'normal' enhancement bonuses, you can hit +20 without breaking the rules, even before things like rage bonuses, but is there a rule saying that +6 enhancement bonus is the actual limit?
I'm specifically referring to the enhancement bonus granted by magical items, not other types of bonuses all added together.

Yes, I'm well aware. I'm also pretty sure there is no cap mentioned in the rules, unlike the bonuses for weapons/armor.

That's what I'm looking for.

It's not specifically mentioned, but it is what the game is designed around.


Claxon wrote:

Quote:

Yes, I'm well aware. I'm also pretty sure there is no cap mentioned in the rules, unlike the bonuses for weapons/armor.

That's what I'm looking for.

It's not specifically mentioned, but it is what the game is designed around.

Given that you can, with difficulty granted, boost your STR well above a +6 using other abilities, I seriously doubt that the game is 'designed around' a specific +6 limit to enhancement bonuses, anymore than it is 'designed around' a wizard with access to the wish spell.

Some things will make the game easier, some things will make the game too easy. The GM is there to serve as a gatekeeper to keep the game in bounds of what is generally agreed upon, whether that's a +6 enhancement stat limit, or a raging alchemist rocking a +24 or so.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Eh, you could get that down to just over a year with +5 DC double rate crafting, and the someone with the cooperative crafting feat.

"Eh"?

That's over a year of you and a henchman doing nothing but working on a belt. Seven days a week. No holidays. No weekends. That's a year of getting no experience points.

Now I understand there's downtime, and maybe our original poster is in a campaign where he has a year of downtime, but I've never played in one with that much.


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Eh, you could get that down to just over a year with +5 DC double rate crafting, and the someone with the cooperative crafting feat.

"Eh"?

That's over a year of you and a henchman doing nothing but working on a belt. Seven days a week. No holidays. No weekends. That's a year of getting no experience points.

Now I understand there's downtime, and maybe our original poster is in a campaign where he has a year of downtime, but I've never played in one with that much.

At the level you could afford it, that's not you and a henchman, it's your henchman and their henchman, sitting on a personal demiplane with accelerated time flow. ;)


taks wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Finally, this caster level prerequisite is just that, a prerequisite. And prerequisites can be bypassed for a +5 to the DC unless it's a spell trigger or completion item. So, even if the GM said you need to be caster level 100, you could skip that with a +5DC to the crafting roll.
No, this is a common misconceptuon. The CL listed for magical items is just a typical or recommended level and is not a requirement unless it is listed on the requirement line. The minimum caster level for the belt of physical perfection is only the minimum level required to cast the 3 spells, which is 3 (typically).

I'm not saying the CL is 100, or that it can be bypassed with +5 to DC...

But if it was CL 100, the DC to make a magic item is 5 + CL...

So a DC of 105 would be hard to do daily for the length of time to make the item.


Dr Styx wrote:
taks wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Finally, this caster level prerequisite is just that, a prerequisite. And prerequisites can be bypassed for a +5 to the DC unless it's a spell trigger or completion item. So, even if the GM said you need to be caster level 100, you could skip that with a +5DC to the crafting roll.
No, this is a common misconceptuon. The CL listed for magical items is just a typical or recommended level and is not a requirement unless it is listed on the requirement line. The minimum caster level for the belt of physical perfection is only the minimum level required to cast the 3 spells, which is 3 (typically).

I'm not saying the CL is 100, or that it can be bypassed with +5 to DC...

But if it was CL 100, the DC to make a magic item is 5 + CL...

So a DC of 105 would be hard to do daily for the length of time to make the item.

Sounds like someone needs a +20 headband for their INT score! :D


_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Quote:

Yes, I'm well aware. I'm also pretty sure there is no cap mentioned in the rules, unlike the bonuses for weapons/armor.

That's what I'm looking for.

It's not specifically mentioned, but it is what the game is designed around.

Given that you can, with difficulty granted, boost your STR well above a +6 using other abilities, I seriously doubt that the game is 'designed around' a specific +6 limit to enhancement bonuses, anymore than it is 'designed around' a wizard with access to the wish spell.

Some things will make the game easier, some things will make the game too easy. The GM is there to serve as a gatekeeper to keep the game in bounds of what is generally agreed upon, whether that's a +6 enhancement stat limit, or a raging alchemist rocking a +24 or so.

Given that you can boost your strength in other ways is why the enhancement bonus caps at +6. They don't want you to be able to accrue too high a strength score. That other bonuses to strength exist is a point in favor of why enhancement bonuses are limited, not against it.


Claxon wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Quote:

Yes, I'm well aware. I'm also pretty sure there is no cap mentioned in the rules, unlike the bonuses for weapons/armor.

That's what I'm looking for.

It's not specifically mentioned, but it is what the game is designed around.

Given that you can, with difficulty granted, boost your STR well above a +6 using other abilities, I seriously doubt that the game is 'designed around' a specific +6 limit to enhancement bonuses, anymore than it is 'designed around' a wizard with access to the wish spell.

Some things will make the game easier, some things will make the game too easy. The GM is there to serve as a gatekeeper to keep the game in bounds of what is generally agreed upon, whether that's a +6 enhancement stat limit, or a raging alchemist rocking a +24 or so.

Given that you can boost your strength in other ways is why the enhancement bonus caps at +6. They don't want you to be able to accrue too high a strength score. That other bonuses to strength exist is a point in favor of why enhancement bonuses are limited, not against it.

Except that that +6 'limit' existed long before alchemical bonuses were even a thing. So no, I don't believe that the +6 stat limits were created with the current ways to boost your strength in mind. So either the game is now broken, or boosting your STR doesn't actually break the game compared to, say, a wish spell.

Seriously, give a 20th level fighter a +20 belt of physical perfection. Is he now more powerful than a 20th level wizard?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I would reference the epic magic item section of the d20srd.org page: Belts of +8 or greater are epic items and thus cannot be made by non-epic characters. Problem solved unless your game actually reaches epic levels.


David knott 242 wrote:

I would reference the epic magic item section of the d20srd.org page: Belts of +8 or greater are epic items and thus cannot be made by non-epic characters. Problem solved unless your game actually reaches epic levels.

And that means absolutely nothing in Pathfinder, as Pathfinder doesn't use those epic rules.


Any game that breaks on a +8 stat item will break on a +6 stat item. There's a near 0 probability that the extra +2 will make the difference between an unbroken game and a broken game.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jeraa wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

I would reference the epic magic item section of the d20srd.org page: Belts of +8 or greater are epic items and thus cannot be made by non-epic characters. Problem solved unless your game actually reaches epic levels.

And that means absolutely nothing in Pathfinder, as Pathfinder doesn't use those epic rules.

Since Pathfinder assumes a similar scaling to pre-epic D&D, D&D rules designating anything as being at the epic level of power are actually a strong suggestion that they are not appropriate for a standard Pathfinder campaign that ends at level 20 or earlier in the absence of contradictory material designed for Pathfinder.

As an example of such contradictory material, the D&D 3.5 rules did limit inherent bonuses to ability scores to +5, but Pathfinder has sorcerer bloodlines that can grant inherent bonuses to strength of up to +6.

For magical belts and headbands, on the other hand, Pathfinder has no items that grant enhancement bonuses above +6.


Why are you zeroing in on 'enhancement' bonuses, when you can get alchemical and size bonuses of +8? Are those somehow 'immune' to this balancing act, such that they don't cause the same issues that +8 enhancement bonuses would cause?


Would the game "break" with a +6 inherent bonus?

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