stopping in the middle of a full round action


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

so in pfs i was playing a magus and had declared that i would be using spell combat. i chose to hit with my sword first, unexpectedly that killed the creature. i decided that would be the end of my turn since the other enemys were too far away but the gm said that because i had declared spell combat that i was required to cast a spell now.
is that true? and if not would i have been able to take a move action if i didnt complete the full round action?

Dark Archive

I would have ruled that you couldn't move, since you had expended the mental energy to do both. Since you declared the action, but could very reasonably not cast the spell since you saw the enemy drop just like you can change targets midway. I'm not aware of any rules that spell out how technically one should rule.


So this rule is specifically about the full-attack action but:

Quote:

Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.

I would say that since you never actually used the benefits of Spell Combat (but presumably took the penalty to your attack roll) that not only do you not need to cast a spell, but you could actually take a move action.

At the time when the core rules were written since spell combat didn't exist. I think it wasn't considered how another type of full-round action attack might interact with this rule, that is specific to the full-attack action which is a specific kind of full round action.


Normally, you are explicitly allowed to decide after your first attack if you want to continue making a full attack, or if you would like to take a Move Action instead. (Combat rules, "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack")

Spell Combat's a little weird. I think the important bit is that it functions much like Two-Weapon Fighting, except that you're wielding a spell instead of another weapon. Personally, I would still interpret it as allowing you to stop after the first strike (you'd still have the penalty because you were INTENDING to do more attacks, and changing circumstances stopped that), but they were the GM at the table.

The Exchange

Claxon wrote:

So this rule is specifically about the full-attack action but:

Quote:

Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.

I would say that since you never actually used the benefits of Spell Combat (but presumably took the penalty to your attack roll) that not only do you not need to cast a spell, but you could actually take a move action.

At the time when the core rules were written since spell combat didn't exist I think it wasn't considered how another type of full-round action attack might interact with this rule, that is specific to the full-attack action which is a specific kind of full round action.

Agreed, in PFS this is really how this should have played out. I'd recommend bringing this to your GM's attention so he can adjust accordingly in the future.

Silver Crusade

Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Claxon wrote:

So this rule is specifically about the full-attack action but:

Quote:

Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.

I would say that since you never actually used the benefits of Spell Combat (but presumably took the penalty to your attack roll) that not only do you not need to cast a spell, but you could actually take a move action.

At the time when the core rules were written since spell combat didn't exist I think it wasn't considered how another type of full-round action attack might interact with this rule, that is specific to the full-attack action which is a specific kind of full round action.

Agreed, in PFS this is really how this should have played out. I'd recommend bringing this to your GM's attention so he can adjust accordingly in the future

thanks this has been very informative, ill be sure to bring this to his attention, thanks everyone :D


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Even if you still must cast a spell, cast a cantrip. Nothing in Spell Combat requires a 1st or higher level spell.


Spell Combat doesn't 'force' you to cast a spell any more than you are 'required' to use all of your iteratives when full attacking.

Quote:
As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

Note 'can', not 'must'. This is true regardless of whether you invoke the full attack clause that lets you decide after your first attack.

For example, if you take an attack plus your iterative during Spell Combat, you can't then abort to a move action, but you still aren't required to cast a spell.


_Ozy_ wrote:

Spell Combat doesn't 'force' you to cast a spell any more than you are 'required' to use all of your iteratives when full attacking.

Quote:
As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

Note 'can', not 'must'. This is true regardless of whether you invoke the full attack clause that lets you decide after your first attack.

For example, if you take an attack plus your iterative during Spell Combat, you can't then abort to a move action, but you still aren't required to cast a spell.

This guy is correct that the can means you don't have to cast any spell or make any attacks. But one you've started spell combat you can't abort into a move action.

This FAQ sets that rule.
This says once you've done some full attack that is special, like manyshot, that you can't convert that full attack into a move, that you're locked in. And spell combat is a full round action, not even a full attack action, so you're for sure using your whole turn to do this.

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