Disarming with Natural Weapon


Rules Questions


Can a creature that disarms a PC using a slam attack pick up the weapon as part of that disarm maneuver? In this case, the creature in question is a lightning elemental with a single slam attack but two arms.

The rules state that

Quote:
If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.

Technically, a slam attack is a natural weapon, so reading completely RAW this wouldn't work. However, an unarmed strike counts as a manufactured weapon, meaning that technically the quoted clause would never apply.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

How is a creature disarming a PC with a slam attack ? They'd have to be using a Disarm maneuver instead, unless there's something else going on.

EDIT: It looks like the elemental simply makes the combat maneuver check in place of a melee attack (that just happens to be a slam, but that's not really relevant). In fact, if it's disarming a metal weapon, and the elemental charges, it gets a +10 due to Spark Leap (Ex).

Assuming a small elemental, it uses its CMB of +1 rather than a melee slam attack at +5.

In the case of your monk, you're not making an unarmed strike to disarm, you're performing a combat maneuver in place of making that unarmed strike, so the quoted clause does apply.


Actually an elemental would have +5, as per this FAQ. More importantly, this FAQ also clarifies that the elemental is using a weapon to make the disarm.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Sorry, +5 is not correct. That's for a regular melee attack

BAB + Dex Mod + Regular Size Mod = 2 + 2 + 1 (small) = +5

For a disarm maneuver,

CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier

So for our example small lightning elemental, that's
2 + 0 + (-1) for a total of 1, in agreement with the bestiary entry.

BUT, per the FAQ you reference, because a small lightning elemental has weapon finesse, for Disarm, sunder, and trip (but not other maneuvers) use the dex mod instead of str mod (assuming the elemental is NOT using a non-finessable weapon)

2 + 2 + (-1) for a total of 3.


You're right about the +3. I was considering a Medium elemental and didn't notice you mentioned small.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

For a medium lightning elemental, the size mods don't come into it (because they're both +0). However, because the BAB and dex have both gone up, a melee slam would be +8 ( BAB 4 + Dex mod 4). For the three finessable maneuvers, it would also be +8, but for the others it would only be +6 (because the str mod is only +2).


Yes, I'm well aware of how to calculate attack bonuses. That wasn't my question.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

CMB Disarm doesn't use a weapon.
If used with a weapon any bonuses and penalties apply.
If you slam and can use Dex, -str+dex and any enhancement bonus you have to the slam.
If you succeed, you may automatically pick up the item.

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