Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Thank you! i was just thinking about posting if anyone had seen any new interviews... :P
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"your technomancer buddy writes spellcode to hack physics" yes please!
"if we had just erased “longbow” and written in “laser rifle” without changing the way damage scales, that would have made it difficult to run the adventure where you land on a planet with a medieval technology level, and we know that’s something we’re interested in." Again, Yes!! i was really wondering about this aspect after seeing (granted, level 2 only) play test where the laser weapons and auto rifle were... not as good at a sling?
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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
There goes Sutter, making space druids cool again.
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KingOfAnything wrote: There goes Sutter, making space druids cool again. Druid? Such an archaic term for the noble Xenowardens.
I'm really confused on the relevance of pathfinder classes in Starfinder. It always seems in these interviews like they're trying to hint that pathfinder classes will rarely be viable to use as player characters in a Starfinder campaign as they are, but they never really come right out and say one way or the other. What I want to know are will the pathfinder to Starfinder classes be changed to reflect their new setting (i.e. proficiency in new firearms and armor for relevant classes) or will the ported classes be simply changed to enable their mechanics be used in the setting as is, as if the class in question had never grown up in a futuristic setting? I get that a barbarian bringing a greataxe to a gunfight isn't going to do very well, but does this mean the barbarian will have the ability to use technological armies and weapons, or would these be mechanically foreign to our theoretical barbarian?
i think they are trying to walk a thin line by saying, "yes, if you want to do the math on them than you can use Pathfinder material as the basis for things in Starfinder but we are also planning on creating Starfinder specific versions of Pathfinder things as the products continue to roll out."
So, the barbarian, if just dropped in with the stat block from Pathfinder, will be lacking the feats, skills and proficiencies to do much in Starfinder, if you want to take the class though and homebrew up the changes to make it work with lasers axes and computer hacking than you can.
That really doesn't sound like what he's saying with:
"As I know I’ve said before at conventions, if your barbarian comes running shirtless down the corridor with an axe, he’s going to get mowed down by some security guard with a machine gun"
That doesn't sound like a thin line. That sounds like a 'Nope.'
As does forcing the team to write up a druid-like specialization for the mystic. That doesn't suggest importing a druid. That pretty much says if you want to play something like a druid, you play this specialization for the new Starfinder class.
Which, honestly strikes me as the better option.
Same with the barbarian. The soldier should be able to shoulder the thematic elements of the barbarian without the baggage.
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Yeah, the idea with Pathfinder classes is: if you wanted to convert them over, it probably wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it's *not* plug and play, and it's not something we're designing the game around or publishing in the core rules. Starfinder has the soldier class—if you want to play a medieval Pathfinder fighter, complete with longsword and plate mail, that's fine, but that's ultimately a kitbash of two different game systems. The *spirit* of the fighter is totally in Starfinder, but the exact expression has changed.
(Basically, I just don't want people angry at me when their paladin doesn't work perfectly in Starfinder as written. As much as I say that they're two different game systems, I know there are people who are expecting simply an expansion for Pathfinder, and I'm trying to head that off at the pass while *also* encouraging folks who want to mash them up in their home games!)
My only hope is that every class has a decent ability to contribute to overcoming most challenges the party is likely to face, whatever those challenges actually are. As I'm not one of the people who's seen the rules, I'm politely holding off on forming an opinion until I actually see said rules. XD I'll be judging by the final result, not by limited pre-release info.
James Sutter wrote: Yeah, the idea with Pathfinder classes is: if you wanted to convert them over, it probably wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it's *not* plug and play, and it's not something we're designing the game around or publishing in the core rules. Starfinder has the soldier class—if you want to play a medieval Pathfinder fighter, complete with longsword and plate mail, that's fine, but that's ultimately a kitbash of two different game systems. The *spirit* of the fighter is totally in Starfinder, but the exact expression has changed.
(Basically, I just don't want people angry at me when their paladin doesn't work perfectly in Starfinder as written. As much as I say that they're two different game systems, I know there are people who are expecting simply an expansion for Pathfinder, and I'm trying to head that off at the pass while *also* encouraging folks who want to mash them up in their home games!)
Ok thanks. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm personally more interested in the realism aspect (as real as you could get with a game that includes technomancers and space goblins) so I'd actually prefer the barbarian to be good in the environment it's meant to be proficient in.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
This will sound completely ridiculous, since the game doesn't even come out for about six months, but I've spent way too much time trying to contrive a way to fit Starfinder into my schedule come August! (I already play in one weekly Pathfinder game and GM another). I might have to try Play by Post . . .
James Sutter wrote: Yeah, the idea with Pathfinder classes is: if you wanted to convert them over, it probably wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it's *not* plug and play, and it's not something we're designing the game around or publishing in the core rules. Starfinder has the soldier class—if you want to play a medieval Pathfinder fighter, complete with longsword and plate mail, that's fine, but that's ultimately a kitbash of two different game systems. The *spirit* of the fighter is totally in Starfinder, but the exact expression has changed.
(Basically, I just don't want people angry at me when their paladin doesn't work perfectly in Starfinder as written. As much as I say that they're two different game systems, I know there are people who are expecting simply an expansion for Pathfinder, and I'm trying to head that off at the pass while *also* encouraging folks who want to mash them up in their home games!)
How would a PL 5 character function? I still have my D20 Modern Rulebook, that is based on D20 3.5 with some alterations, except for things like Shadow Hunters, magic is not something a character from that setting would normally deal with. A magic item recovered from a UFO shot down by the Air Force. (The "UFO" was heavily damaged by its arrival in the D20 Modern Universe, the Air Force was thus able to shoot it down, the crew of that "UFO" escaped through a gate back to the Starfinder Universe, a farmer on who's farm the UFO crashed managed to recover the magic item, before the Air Force investigators got to the crash site, and he kept it hidden for a long time until the PCs discovered it. The PCs use the gate and find a Galaxy full of magic-tech, which basically doesn't operate in the magic less setting of D20 which I'm assuming, unless it is close to the gate. (We'll say its a Well of Many Worlds for argument sake) Magic leaks through the gate into our world, but if you travel far enough away from the gate in our world, all magical devices cease to function, which gives the Air Force a real hard time in understanding the technology of the UFO they recovered without the gate. The ship doesn't work, and they can't actually believe it flew in space! So none of the Starfinder stuff imported back through the gate actually affects our world, it stays a nonmagical PL 5 setting, except in close proximity to the gate. PL 5 technology brought over to Starfinder works just fine however. A gun is a gun after all.
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I am really interested in seeing how the Xenowarden plays out considering all of the special restrictions on a Druid for equipment... i bet you can use polymers and ceramics for most gear in Starfinder so no need to worry about metals anymore! Or Xenowardens arriving on a low tech world and just being kind of embarrassed by how the local Druids have all these taboos... On par with the Soldier watching a medieval battle on the viewscreen being all like, "Wait, are their archers just standing in formation on the field trading volleys?! Come on, there is a tree line just 100 yards behind you, take some cover you morons!"
James, you talked about how technology's availability has been significantly reassessed in Starfinder. If I have an itch to play a heavily-cybered-up warrior right out of the box, will cybernetic implants (that have meaningful effects!) be available at character creation?
ooh, good question!
I would assume that even if cybernetics are available out of the box, they arent that great compared to what you could get at levels 4, 8 or 16. it sounds like gear is heavily influenced by level.
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James Sutter wrote: Yeah, the idea with Pathfinder classes is: if you wanted to convert them over, it probably wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it's *not* plug and play, and it's not something we're designing the game around or publishing in the core rules. Starfinder has the soldier class—if you want to play a medieval Pathfinder fighter, complete with longsword and plate mail, that's fine, but that's ultimately a kitbash of two different game systems. The *spirit* of the fighter is totally in Starfinder, but the exact expression has changed.
(Basically, I just don't want people angry at me when their paladin doesn't work perfectly in Starfinder as written. As much as I say that they're two different game systems, I know there are people who are expecting simply an expansion for Pathfinder, and I'm trying to head that off at the pass while *also* encouraging folks who want to mash them up in their home games!)
Pffft, like RPG nerds are going to get angry over a game designer's decision.
Paragons of Reasonableness. That's us.
I have never gotten angry over anything in a game or in real life ever and i will fight each and every one of you who says otherwise!11!
Sure, I'll fight you. :-)
By the tire swing after school?
James Sutter wrote: ...Basically throws "Pathfinder Backwards Compatibility" out the air lock... Good, good! The more I don't have to deal with "backwards compatibility" and the billions* of pages of existing Pathfinder material, leaving me with a clean slate to work with, the better! :)
* = substitute for the number of your choice
As long as I get rocket launcher and flamethrower using goblins that are as much a threat to themselves and their fellow goblins as to the PCs then I'm happy
Sir Malt 241 wrote: As long as I get rocket launcher and flamethrower using goblins that are as much a threat to themselves and their fellow goblins as to the PCs then I'm happy I take it you know of THIS?
I'm aware. Just want to see a goblin with a flamethrower go completely insane on a battlefield and try to burn everything.
Yeah, that's an inevitability :3
Goblins with Napalm sprayers and the sudden realization that spraying up is a thing... Do you stat them as monsters or mobile traps?
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I don't know about all of you, but I'm real excited to see how this game turns out!
What's that?
Get back to work so the book can be shipped to the printer on time? Ok, ok! Sheesh.
A cool interview, but I didn't really see a lot of new stuff mentioned. Though it was good to see the druids expanded upon.
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Steve Geddes wrote: Pffft, like RPG nerds are going to get angry over a game designer's decision.
Paragons of Reasonableness. That's us.
Paragons fall more often than paladins. And when they do, they're even scarier than anti-paladins and blackguards.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Jason Keeley wrote: I don't know about all of you, but I'm real excited to see how this game turns out! Starfinder is going to be awesome! Goblins with guns, who could ask for more from science fantasy. With such talented game developers and Paizo supporting it, I'm expecting many years of star hopping fun.
Pre-ordered and waiting, with a bit under 6 months to go.
Equipment one has is much more important in a science fiction setting. One interesting question is how does the GM award experience points, for surely what the opponents are equipped with versus what the PCs have matters. Unlike most magic items, PCs just accumulate treasure, go to the store and buy what they need. An interesting question is how much experience points do PCs get if they destroy a starship from the ground as opposed to destroying it from another starship. I guess you can call that Equipment Advantage. Most equipment you have in Pathfinder aside from certain magic items, just enhances a PC's abilities such as a +1 sword, but it mostly is the PC wielding that sword that matters. However a starship equipped with laser cannons and missiles is something entirely different!
Don't really agree with that, especially in D&D and D&D derived games like pathfinder. Too often items matter as much or more than the characters do. Particularly a martial or skill jockey without the requisite golf-bag and dripping with jewelry increasingly trends toward NPC status. If you can get players in a prisoner situation and survive the ensuing complaints and bellyaching, the characters often won't be able to do much at all.
On the other hand, in sci-fi settings, usually everyone just has the default equipment, and what the characters can do is what matters. For example, in star trek everybody has a phaser in their pocket when it's appropriate, but it really matters if you brought the engineer or the psychologist along on the away mission. In star wars, you're either designated god status for having a lightsaber, or you've got a blaster, which means it matters if you can rewire doors or not, pilot a starship, or..., well, shoot better than the mooks. In both settings armor and other gear and equipment is hand-waved completely.
Voss wrote: Don't really agree with that, especially in D&D and D&D derived games like pathfinder. Too often items matter as much or more than the characters do. Particularly a martial or skill jockey without the requisite golf-bag and dripping with jewelry increasingly trends toward NPC status. If you can get players in a prisoner situation and survive the ensuing complaints and bellyaching, the characters often won't be able to do much at all.
On the other hand, in sci-fi settings, usually everyone just has the default equipment, and what the characters can do is what matters. For example, in star trek everybody has a phaser in their pocket when it's appropriate, but it really matters if you brought the engineer or the psychologist along on the away mission. In star wars, you're either designated god status for having a lightsaber, or you've got a blaster, which means it matters if you can rewire doors or not, pilot a starship, or..., well, shoot better than the mooks. In both settings armor and other gear and equipment is hand-waved completely.
i know what you are talking about but even in the game versions of those settings the gear becomes very central. KOTOR is a great example of that, just having levels and a basic lightsaber wouldnt get you nearly as far as a light saber with all five major upgrade slots maxed out in addition to the right robes, gloves, belt and headpiece. For Starfinder they seem to be making it a default assumption that you will be leveling your gear every few PC levels to scale just as much as your class will be providing abilities. So i wouldnt expect a level 10 soldier with a level 2 rifle to be as impressive as a level 7 soldier with a level 9 rifle.
KotoR was based on Star Wars d20, and done by a company that loves the level-based gear treadmill (and hasn't since let go of it since KotoR). The West End Games d6 Star Wars RPG (the first attempt) was fairly different in that regard (and closer to the source material, even though the system had its own wonkiness)
But yeah, as far as leveled rifles and gear goes, I have the same expectation for Starfinder you do... because it's a D&D inheritor, not because its sci-fi.
D&D Space fantasy has different expectations from Space Opera, even the Space Wizards vein that the SW films tried for.
I am not too bothered by level tiered gear, there will always be the E6 variants out there to work up something a little grittier or character focused. Or, do away with resistances and DR/Magic and then it may not matter as much if you are the newest and shiniest laser rifle, just keep on using that trusty ol' phaser from your second salvaged wreck. They might have pushed automatic bonus progression harder for Starfinder as well... so even knowing the gear is leveled, i guess we dont know how much of a difference that makes or how important it is to keep getting new weapons to stay relevant to your level.
I don't know how you level equipment, as far as I know, if you got the bucks, then someone will sell it to you. Trouble is some characters are born rich, while others are poor. Some will steal what equipment they need. I don't know how you can level equipment. One thing that always troubled me with Traveller, is when you look at the list of starships available to beginning players, the most basic ship, the Scout/Courier costs tens of millions of credits. The Scout/Courier costs MCr42.258. Right off the bat, if your character starts off as a Scout, the roll of the dice gets him the use of a scout/courier, of course they qualify it saying that the character does not actually own the ship, or that the bank owns most of it, and the character is paying off a starship loan. Most people is they had $42,258,000 would simply retire. The rest of the items on the Equipment list are trivial compared to the cost of that first starship, a suit of Battledress costs Cr95,135, a ground car costs Cr5440, so it seems somewhat ridiculous that the bank would give you a loan of Cr42,258,000 to buy a starship. Imagine if you started Pathfinder that way. The Bank gives you a loan for 4,225,800 gold pieces to buy your kingdom, and you have to somehow make monthly payments otherwise the bank foreclose on it!
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
"Imagine if you started Pathfinder that way. The Bank gives you a loan for 4,225,800 gold pieces to buy your kingdom, and you have to somehow make monthly payments otherwise the bank foreclose on it!"
That actually sounds pretty fun! "Run! Those plane-shifting debt-collectors are after me!"
Jhaeman wrote: "Imagine if you started Pathfinder that way. The Bank gives you a loan for 4,225,800 gold pieces to buy your kingdom, and you have to somehow make monthly payments otherwise the bank foreclose on it!"
That actually sounds pretty fun! "Run! Those plane-shifting debt-collectors are after me!"
Of course, Traveller already does something like that, as mentioned... i think in Rifts they literally had inter-dimensional debt collectors that would purposefully give you gear you couldn't possibly pay back on just so they could claim your land or life legally for enslavement. i could definitely see a few factions from Pathfinder adopting a similar tactic in the far future.
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Tom Kalbfus wrote: I don't know how you level equipment, as far as I know, if you got the bucks, then someone will sell it to you. Trouble is some characters are born rich, while others are poor. Some will steal what equipment they need. I don't know how you can level equipment. AS I recall it's not a "you have to be this level to get on this ride" - a lower level character can use higher level gear, but it's a guide for GMs to help gauge appropriate gear for rewards, and such things.
In the setting it could be that the best gear is restricted to the factions that know how to make it, it is locked behind licenses or only authorized for sale to approved individuals so maybe even if you get your hands on it you need to stash it in a smuggling compartment when you are in the Pact Worlds proper. In game terms it is level locked gear that lets you hit above your weight. Just like in Traveller you could start out with the skills for using Battle Dress and be an expert in heavy energy weapons but if you started the game with those items than combat will be very lopsided. I expect Starfinder will have the same sort of gear and instead of telling GMs to be careful in handing out Power Armor they will instead have a suggested level to introduce it at to keep combat capabilities in line with the expected challenges.
Jhaeman wrote: "Imagine if you started Pathfinder that way. The Bank gives you a loan for 4,225,800 gold pieces to buy your kingdom, and you have to somehow make monthly payments otherwise the bank foreclose on it!"
That actually sounds pretty fun! "Run! Those plane-shifting debt-collectors are after me!"
Or you could Recettear your way through the debt by having others risk their lives for your own profit.
Torbyne wrote: In the setting it could be that the best gear is restricted to the factions that know how to make it, it is locked behind licenses or only authorized for sale to approved individuals so maybe even if you get your hands on it you need to stash it in a smuggling compartment when you are in the Pact Worlds proper. In game terms it is level locked gear that lets you hit above your weight. Just like in Traveller you could start out with the skills for using Battle Dress and be an expert in heavy energy weapons but if you started the game with those items than combat will be very lopsided. I expect Starfinder will have the same sort of gear and instead of telling GMs to be careful in handing out Power Armor they will instead have a suggested level to introduce it at to keep combat capabilities in line with the expected challenges. In Pathfinder, the most important gear to have was magic items, and magic items were easy for the GM to control, he could just say, there are no magic shops, and then not award any magic items that he feels would unbalance the game, beside magic items, there was not much else. PCs could accumulate lots of gold pieces, they could build a keep, hire an army. I one time played a cleric who did all that, the DM I had was very stingy with magic items, the cleric had a +2 warhammer and used it all the time, as a cleric of Thor, it was also his holy symbol, he had a couple of ships built, hire a bunch of mercenaries to rescue his friends from jail, explored the world, and built an island kingdom with his friends, and then one time got bored and decided to go to Hell, and steal Tiamat's treasure, Hell proved to be a bit more than we bargained for and we had to beat a hasty retreat!
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