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We need more. We need a table of a Class for 5 levels, or at least one full skill with the different rank of proficiency and what you can do with it.
We need, even if it is short, a true example of a few lines from the book. Maybe it is not ready yet, but I am pretty sure that there is enough to throw us a bone. Because I want to be hyped and like a fanboy who is waiting for his new gift, but damn the blog posts are sooooo generic.
We can feel that the dev are passionate about the game and that is fun, but on the other hand this hobby means so much for a lot of us around here and we can see that the posts tell something but without real context or example at play against a monster for example.
I know it is early and everything can change but still, so far I have the unsatisfactory sensation to read about « med-fantasy vanilla rpg ». We PF1 was released we were happy to see that. I remember being like a child with the new Bard and the nice Arcane Schools and the Sorcerer. When WotC released 5E my curiosity was awakened by their change of game design philosophy. When Paizo announced Starfinder, I was again under the charm. When I played my Mesmerist and my Bloodrager I was like « damn this is new and fun ».
So we need more than Figther can charge, Rogue can have skills, and skills are cool. I will kill for the full description of a skill.
This is not a post to undermine Pathfinder or Paizo. PF1 is, so far, the RPG where I spend most of my time the last 10 years. I started Rise of the Runelords when I was 13. Now I am 23 and mastering another AP. So of course I will try and test and comment the game.
But WE NEED MOOOOORE! The blogs for the new classes in PF1 or SF were much more exciting (my opinion only). And I want to express this feeling, not only to try to have a real pieces of content, but also so Paizo can understand why this game matters to me and I thin) to a lot of you guys!
Agreed!
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I think that a look at each class from levels 1-3 or 1-5 would be much more interesting than the random sampling that we are getting.
Hell, just going through what level one looks like even if we don't get to know specifically what level one does yet would be better than knowing about a scattering of abilities from all over the place.
What we are getting is interesting stuff and worth talking about, but it has no meat to it.
Maybe show us what a level one Valeros or Merisiel looks like at this stage?
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Were getting them to like august right?
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We need more. We need a table of a Class for 5 levels, or at least one full skill with the different rank of proficiency and what you can do with it.
We need, even if it is short, a true example of a few lines from the book. Maybe it is not ready yet, but I am pretty sure that there is enough to throw us a bone. Because I want to be hyped and like a fanboy who is waiting for his new gift, but damn the blog posts are sooooo generic.
We can feel that the dev are passionate about the game and that is fun, but on the other hand this hobby means so much for a lot of us around here and we can see that the posts tell something but without real context or example at play against a monster for example.
I know it is early and everything can change but still, so far I have the unsatisfactory sensation to read about « med-fantasy vanilla rpg ». We PF1 was released we were happy to see that. I remember being like a child with the new Bard and the nice Arcane Schools and the Sorcerer. When WotC released 5E my curiosity was awakened by their change of game design philosophy. When Paizo announced Starfinder, I was again under the charm. When I played my Mesmerist and my Bloodrager I was like « damn this is new and fun ».
So we need more than Figther can charge, Rogue can have skills, and skills are cool. I will kill for the full description of a skill.
This is not a post to undermine Pathfinder or Paizo. PF1 is, so far, the RPG where I spend most of my time the last 10 years. I started Rise of the Runelords when I was 13. Now I am 23 and mastering another AP. So of course I will try and test and comment the game.
But WE NEED MOOOOORE! The blogs for the new classes in PF1 or SF were much more exciting (my opinion only). And I want to express this feeling, not only to try to have a real pieces of content, but also so Paizo can understand why this game matters to me and I thin) to a lot of you guys!
What we really need: patience.
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What we really need: patience.We need more. We need a table of a Class for 5 levels, or at least one full skill with the different rank of proficiency and what you can do with it.
We need, even if it is short, a true example of a few lines from the book. Maybe it is not ready yet, but I am pretty sure that there is enough to throw us a bone. Because I want to be hyped and like a fanboy who is waiting for his new gift, but damn the blog posts are sooooo generic.
We can feel that the dev are passionate about the game and that is fun, but on the other hand this hobby means so much for a lot of us around here and we can see that the posts tell something but without real context or example at play against a monster for example.
I know it is early and everything can change but still, so far I have the unsatisfactory sensation to read about « med-fantasy vanilla rpg ». We PF1 was released we were happy to see that. I remember being like a child with the new Bard and the nice Arcane Schools and the Sorcerer. When WotC released 5E my curiosity was awakened by their change of game design philosophy. When Paizo announced Starfinder, I was again under the charm. When I played my Mesmerist and my Bloodrager I was like « damn this is new and fun ».
So we need more than Figther can charge, Rogue can have skills, and skills are cool. I will kill for the full description of a skill.
This is not a post to undermine Pathfinder or Paizo. PF1 is, so far, the RPG where I spend most of my time the last 10 years. I started Rise of the Runelords when I was 13. Now I am 23 and mastering another AP. So of course I will try and test and comment the game.
But WE NEED MOOOOORE! The blogs for the new classes in PF1 or SF were much more exciting (my opinion only). And I want to express this feeling, not only to try to have a real pieces of content, but also so Paizo can understand why this game matters to me and I thin) to a lot of you guys!
This times a million.
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While I agree we need some patience, esp with all the conclusion jumping going around, the hat we need is concrete information. All we are getting in these blog posts are vague tidbits that don’t actually say what’s going on.
They are giving us just enough to come back for more, hoping they give us something real.
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These blogs aren’t advertising the game. They’re advertising the playtest.
The juicy details will be released in August (as I understand it, the playtest ruleset hadn’t even been finalised when they announced it - Erik tweeted about still doing his pass on the magic item section a week or so ago).
They don’t want to get too specific, then find the rules get tweaked and people are critiquing two different rules versions come August.
I’m sure as the date looms, there’ll be more involved spoilers - I’d expect a fair bit of previewing to come out at Paizocon (late May/early June). Until then, I think managing ones expectations is key.
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What we really need: patience.We need more. We need a table of a Class for 5 levels, or at least one full skill with the different rank of proficiency and what you can do with it.
We need, even if it is short, a true example of a few lines from the book. Maybe it is not ready yet, but I am pretty sure that there is enough to throw us a bone. Because I want to be hyped and like a fanboy who is waiting for his new gift, but damn the blog posts are sooooo generic.
We can feel that the dev are passionate about the game and that is fun, but on the other hand this hobby means so much for a lot of us around here and we can see that the posts tell something but without real context or example at play against a monster for example.
I know it is early and everything can change but still, so far I have the unsatisfactory sensation to read about « med-fantasy vanilla rpg ». We PF1 was released we were happy to see that. I remember being like a child with the new Bard and the nice Arcane Schools and the Sorcerer. When WotC released 5E my curiosity was awakened by their change of game design philosophy. When Paizo announced Starfinder, I was again under the charm. When I played my Mesmerist and my Bloodrager I was like « damn this is new and fun ».
So we need more than Figther can charge, Rogue can have skills, and skills are cool. I will kill for the full description of a skill.
This is not a post to undermine Pathfinder or Paizo. PF1 is, so far, the RPG where I spend most of my time the last 10 years. I started Rise of the Runelords when I was 13. Now I am 23 and mastering another AP. So of course I will try and test and comment the game.
But WE NEED MOOOOORE! The blogs for the new classes in PF1 or SF were much more exciting (my opinion only). And I want to express this feeling, not only to try to have a real pieces of content, but also so Paizo can understand why this game matters to me and I thin) to a lot of you guys!
I am trying with all my mind and will, but the hearth is weak!
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These blogs aren’t advertising the game. They’re advertising the playtest.
The juicy details will be released in August (as I understand it, the playtest ruleset hadn’t even been finalised when they announced it - Erik tweeted about still doing his pass on the magic item section a week or so ago).
They don’t want to get too specific, then find the rules get tweaked and people are critiquing two different rules versions come August.
I’m sure as the date looms, there’ll be more involved spoilers - I’d expect a fair bit of previewing to come out at Paizocon (late May/early June). Until then, I think managing ones expectations is key.
The problem with the vague blogs, is that to read about the blog and any subsequent designer/developer answers to inevitable questions, is that I have to wade through a slog of "I hate this..." where most of those posts are probably just misinformed instant reactions based on vastly incomplete information.
Then the answers we get back are, "Hey, don't worry, 14th level really is the right place for that ability, you'll see!"
I've already hit fatigue level. I almost had to force myself to come back and read the Rogue blog post, because these blog posts are frankly useless. I want some meat! Give me a T-Bone, mid-rare, with lobster sauce. Right now we are getting bland potato puree and everyone is trying to compare little spoonfuls with the 97 course meal that is PF1.
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This times a millionWhat we really need: patience.
If they wanted us to be patient, they should not be generating hype five months in advance.
You can't give spoilers and expect people not to talk about and analyze those spoilers. At this point, I want them to just stop previews until July; there is just too much angst in the playtest forums.
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This times a millionWhat we really need: patience.
If they wanted us to be patient, they should not be generating hype five months in advance.
You can't give spoilers and expect people not to talk about and analyze those spoilers. At this point, I want them to just stop previews until July; there is just too much angst in the playtest forums.
Or give us some actual meat to the previews, so that we don't have to guess what they are actually saying based on knowledge of the current game.
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I don't think the problem here is the content of the previews, I think it's the order they're coming in.
A lot of the coolness of the new Classes is clearly, based on commentary from the folks at Paizo, based on the fundamental changes in the nature of the new rules. And yet we're getting the Classes before we get anything about those new rules, which makes it hard to properly judge said new Classes since they are devoid of context.
Previewing the Rogue, who clearly get extra Skill Feats as one of their major advantages, before previewing Skill Feats seems a serious tactical error, just for example.
I am glad to see that a lots of people are sharing the same feeling. The Skill Feats are the best example. We can.t be amazed by the Rogue if we don’t see what he can do.
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Eh, I’m cool gradually piecing together parts of the puzzle.
Skill feats include healing, getting some form of animal buddy, magical crafting, removing the action for standing from prone, wall jumps, and stealth at full speed.
The blog posts are just "teasers". They are teasing us with a pot pourri of selected details, just to get us all hot and bothered.
It's March. The playtest isn't "live" until August. Patience is the only game in town.
Now, if only I could pre-order the playtest stuff...
The blog posts are just "teasers". They are teasing us with a pot pourri of selected details, just to get us all hot and bothered.
It's March. The playtest isn't "live" until August. Patience is the only game in town.
Now, if only I could pre-order the playtest stuff...
Preorders open today, correct?
Preorders open today, correct?The blog posts are just "teasers". They are teasing us with a pot pourri of selected details, just to get us all hot and bothered.
It's March. The playtest isn't "live" until August. Patience is the only game in town.
Now, if only I could pre-order the playtest stuff...
Today, perhaps...
Though not yet, it would seem.
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I have to admit those previews made both classes sound basically the same as they are now, which is disheartening to say the least.
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Agreed that the class teaser blogs are pretty bad from a hype standpoint.
Most of them seem to be focused on explaining how the class gets to do the same thing it was doing in PF1E, but using the new action economy/skill rules. Its very hard to get excited about things like "you deal bleed damage on your sneak attacks" when that was a rogue talent I skipped most of the time in PF1E.
Plus, half the class abilities they chose to reveal seem to be "it gives a small numerical bonus if you use it" or "it does something that everyone used to do on a regular basis in PF1E". These abilities may be super great in PF2E, super satisfying to play with, but from our PF1E perspective they look dreadfully humdrum.
Director of Game Design
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Folks,
The blogs are not going to be dropping huge excerpts of the book. There is a very simple reason for this... it is still in edit, and layout. Then it needs to be copy fit and go through a few more rounds of edit. To top it off, we are still making changes and will, much to our publishers chagrin, continue to do so until the very last moment.
That said... we also had to announce it if we were going to let retailers and stores have a chance to participate in the release. Thats just how the distribution system works.
So... the best we can do right now is to give everyone an idea of how things work. We've already leaked things that have been changed and I am trying to keep that to a minimum so that the game we are talking about is the game you are going to get to playtest.
It's not ideal... but it is the best we can do right now. I hope that helps understand where we are at.
Ooh, leaked things have changed already? Very exciting!
Thanks for explaining, Jason. I would have figured everything would be finalized by now, as I believe you print across seas (China)? And then comes back here (to the states) by boat. At least that's now it worked it the past.
To have it printed and ready for Gen Con, I would have thought it would have been sent to the printer by now.
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That is understood. But an organization and timing of releases to help folks understand how things will at least generically work would be helpful.
Like above, it was indicated that if you are planning a skill system/proficiency teaser post, so we know what that might generically look like, do that before you talk about the Rogue which seems to be largely impacted by such a system.
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These blogs aren’t advertising the game. They’re advertising the playtest.
The juicy details will be released in August (as I understand it, the playtest ruleset hadn’t even been finalised when they announced it - Erik tweeted about still doing his pass on the magic item section a week or so ago).
They don’t want to get too specific, then find the rules get tweaked and people are critiquing two different rules versions come August.
I’m sure as the date looms, there’ll be more involved spoilers - I’d expect a fair bit of previewing to come out at Paizocon (late May/early June). Until then, I think managing ones expectations is key.
The problem with the vague blogs, is that to read about the blog and any subsequent designer/developer answers to inevitable questions, is that I have to wade through a slog of "I hate this..." where most of those posts are probably just misinformed instant reactions based on vastly incomplete information.
Then the answers we get back are, "Hey, don't worry, 14th level really is the right place for that ability, you'll see!"
I've already hit fatigue level. I almost had to force myself to come back and read the Rogue blog post, because these blog posts are frankly useless. I want some meat! Give me a T-Bone, mid-rare, with lobster sauce. Right now we are getting bland potato puree and everyone is trying to compare little spoonfuls with the 97 course meal that is PF1.
I think this would be a valid criticism if the playtest had started, however they’re not hyping the game - they’re hyping the playtest. (The game isn’t written yet). This is all marketing for the two deadlines we need to know about. You know about the playtest and you’re interested in downloading it/buying it, so you’re not really the target.
They want to try and make sure everyone who wants a printed copy is going to know about it before the end of April. They also want to be sure everyone who is going to want to participate in the playtest knows about it by August. Those are their primary goals currently and they require a long lead time.
The fact there’s a bunch of upset people at the moment is an unfortunate necessity, in my view. Get some of the apocalyptic stuff out of the way now, rather than in the playtest - it’s inevitable there’s going to be a large number of “they shouldn’t be bringing out a new edition” posts and there’s no value in those during a playtest. (In case that reads as me having a go, I’m one of those who wishes Paizo hadn’t made this choice. I’m not dismissing the feeling, I just recognise it wouldn’t add value to a playtest).
Long story short, my advice would be not to force yourself. The book hasn’t been finished yet. Come back in May - I reckon you’ll get more detail between Paizocon and August. (As momentum builds for the launch).
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That is understood. But an organization and timing of releases to help folks understand how things will at least generically work would be helpful.
Like above, it was indicated that if you are planning a skill system/proficiency teaser post, so we know what that might generically look like, do that before you talk about the Rogue which seems to be largely impacted by such a system.
Pretty much this.
Let's say X is the number of Skill Feats a character gets, and we know Rogues have 2X worth of Skill Feats to their class. How much is X, and how does that quantity relate to the overall value of Y or Z effects?
So it doesn't matter if Rogues get X, 2X, or even 10X. Until we know what X's potential value is, talking about how much of X a class gets, or what that value means in relation to other variables, yields nothing of interest.
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The blog posts are way too generic!
And the Forums are Way too Long!
I keep hearing "this aint a preview of PF2 its a preview of the playtest" Which is fine. Though it would be nice to get something of interest about the playtest itself. Instead of saying vague things about the classes, how about some discussion on how you are designing them?
I keep hearing "this aint a preview of PF2 its a preview of the playtest" Which is fine. Though it would be nice to get something of interest about the playtest itself. Instead of saying vague things about the classes, how about some discussion on how you are designing them?
I’d like this too, but I’m not sure the meta stuff has the same broad appeal.
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These blogs aren’t advertising the game. They’re advertising the playtest.
The juicy details will be released in August (as I understand it, the playtest ruleset hadn’t even been finalised when they announced it - Erik tweeted about still doing his pass on the magic item section a week or so ago).
They don’t want to get too specific, then find the rules get tweaked and people are critiquing two different rules versions come August.
I’m sure as the date looms, there’ll be more involved spoilers - I’d expect a fair bit of previewing to come out at Paizocon (late May/early June). Until then, I think managing ones expectations is key.
The problem with the vague blogs, is that to read about the blog and any subsequent designer/developer answers to inevitable questions, is that I have to wade through a slog of "I hate this..." where most of those posts are probably just misinformed instant reactions based on vastly incomplete information.
Then the answers we get back are, "Hey, don't worry, 14th level really is the right place for that ability, you'll see!"
I've already hit fatigue level. I almost had to force myself to come back and read the Rogue blog post, because these blog posts are frankly useless. I want some meat! Give me a T-Bone, mid-rare, with lobster sauce. Right now we are getting bland potato puree and everyone is trying to compare little spoonfuls with the 97 course meal that is PF1.
I think this would be a valid criticism if the playtest had started, however they’re not hyping the game - they’re hyping the playtest. (The game isn’t written yet). This is all marketing for the two deadlines we need to know about. You know about the playtest and you’re interested in downloading it/buying it, so you’re not really the target.
They want to try and make sure everyone who wants a printed copy is going to know about it before the end of April. They also want to be sure everyone who is going to want to participate in the playtest...
I was extremely excited about hearing about PF2.
I was extremely excited about playtesting this.
But, at least for me, if the blog posts are teasing and hyping the playtest, they are not doing a good job of getting me hyped for the playtest.
Coming back in May could mean wading through 10's of thousands of posts just to find out what its all about. If I'm waiting until May or June. I'll just turn off interest until August. Maybe I'll still be interested at that time.
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I keep hearing "this aint a preview of PF2 its a preview of the playtest" Which is fine. Though it would be nice to get something of interest about the playtest itself. Instead of saying vague things about the classes, how about some discussion on how you are designing them?I’d like this too, but I’m not sure the meta stuff has the same broad appeal.
I'm not sure what we are getting has broad appeal...
I was extremely excited about hearing about PF2.
I was extremely excited about playtesting this.
But, at least for me, if the blog posts are teasing and hyping the playtest, they are not doing a good job of getting me hyped for the playtest.
Coming back in May could mean wading through 10's of thousands of posts just to find out what its all about. If I'm waiting until May or June. I'll just turn off interest until August. Maybe I'll still be interested at that time.
Yeah, I was going to suggest August, in fact.
It sounds to me like you’re ready to go. The trouble really is that Paizo aren’t. It’s kind of the nature of the beast - lots of moving parts inevitably means imperfect timelines for someone.
I'm not sure what we are getting has broad appeal...I keep hearing "this aint a preview of PF2 its a preview of the playtest" Which is fine. Though it would be nice to get something of interest about the playtest itself. Instead of saying vague things about the classes, how about some discussion on how you are designing them?I’d like this too, but I’m not sure the meta stuff has the same broad appeal.
Broader appeal is sufficient for my point.
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Yeah, I was going to suggest August, in fact.
It sounds to me like you’re ready to go. The trouble really is that Paizo aren’t. It’s kind of the nature of the beast - lots of moving parts inevitably means imperfect timelines for someone.
I'm not expecting vast swaths of the game be re-printed in the blogs. And I understand that large chunks of info that have released or been leaked may not be ready for prime time (might be/have already changed).
But there has to be some middle ground that gives us something tasty to feast on that looks interesting and gives us some idea of how they've changed things. Right now, especially for the Rogue blog, we got, "Hey, this looks a lot like the Unchained rogue, but a little worse and you get twice as many skill feats as others."
Ok, first part is meh, and second part is neat? Maybe? What does that mean?
Answers by staff have thus far been, "Just wait and see, its really really cool and you get all this cool new stuff!"
Ok, why wasn't that in the blog then? Even if you have to generically tell me something without showing the mechanics, you can at least tell me some new stuff instead of what we got, which on the surface is just, "hmmm... so what can the new Rogue do that the old Rogue can't? How is it different? Why should this excite me?"
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Broader appeal is sufficient for my point.I'm not sure what we are getting has broad appeal...I keep hearing "this aint a preview of PF2 its a preview of the playtest" Which is fine. Though it would be nice to get something of interest about the playtest itself. Instead of saying vague things about the classes, how about some discussion on how you are designing them?I’d like this too, but I’m not sure the meta stuff has the same broad appeal.
Not sure about that. Action economy, proficiency, and resonance all generated interesting discussion for the playtest. A la load, and rogue were about as interesting as saying PF2 will use a D20...
Maybe I misunderstood what you were asking for then.
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I totally agree with the OP. Paizo told us that a 2nd edition is coming.
Fine !!
But now either they remain silent because they need to work on it or to collect suggestions, or if things are ready they give us a real first look at how it works.
Having previews that reveal nothing precise 2 or 3 times a week for 5 MONTHS are going to put me in a real bad mood for when the playtest finally arrives.
Nothing can live up the expectations built up on 5 months of previews ...
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If I can survive for what has been literally years on just rumors, whispers, and teases for Captain Marvel to premiere March 8th, 2019, I think I can make it until this August for the PF2e playtest.
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I feel like just saying "hey PF2 is coming, playtest in August" and then saying nothing is going to result a really toxic environment since people are going to have wildly different ideas about what PF2 should be and most of them are going to have nothing to do with what Paizo is aiming for.
So at least periodically cluing the forums into "here's the idea behind a thing" even if you're vague is going to direct conversation in a productive manner. Like doing class previews for the Fighter and the Rogue have cut off all the arguments about "should Pathfinder move to a classless system" because it's pointless to have that argument now since we know it's got classes.
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I don't want details that I can count on, I know there aren't any. What I want is to be able to give people I know offline a decent idea of what they might be walking in to when August rolls around.
They won't be hitting the ground running with high level characters, right? What good does it do to tell us what a 14th level ability is without much context?
Give me five good reasons why somebody would want to playtest a fighter and show how the fighter supports that in the early stages. Give me something to drop on my player who loves rogues that might make her want to put it through its paces on Aug 6 right away.
Things are going to change between the blog posts and August 2nd, clearly. All I ask is that the hype we drum up for Paizo be focused on what to look forward to when the playtest starts.
Even with the playtest document in flux, I don't think that is unreasonable.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Thanks for explaining, Jason. I would have figured everything would be finalized by now, as I believe you print across seas (China)? And then comes back here (to the states) by boat. At least that's now it worked it the past.
To have it printed and ready for Gen Con, I would have thought it would have been sent to the printer by now.
We're having the playtest products printed in Canada, eliminating about two months of shipping. (Printing costs us a bit more this way, but it was the right decision in this case.)
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We're having the playtest products printed in Canada, eliminating about two months of shipping. (Printing costs us a bit more this way, but it was the right decision in this case.)Thanks for explaining, Jason. I would have figured everything would be finalized by now, as I believe you print across seas (China)? And then comes back here (to the states) by boat. At least that's now it worked it the past.
To have it printed and ready for Gen Con, I would have thought it would have been sent to the printer by now.
Thanks! I'm happy to be getting this in August, rather than October!
We're having the playtest products printed in Canada, eliminating about two months of shipping. (Printing costs us a bit more this way, but it was the right decision in this case.)
Ah yes, makes sense.
Thanks for explaining!
I don't want details that I can count on, I know there aren't any. What I want is to be able to give people I know offline a decent idea of what they might be walking in to when August rolls around.
They won't be hitting the ground running with high level characters, right? What good does it do to tell us what a 14th level ability is without much context?
Give me five good reasons why somebody would want to playtest a fighter and show how the fighter supports that in the early stages. Give me something to drop on my player who loves rogues that might make her want to put it through its paces on Aug 6 right away.
Things are going to change between the blog posts and August 2nd, clearly. All I ask is that the hype we drum up for Paizo be focused on what to look forward to when the playtest starts.
Even with the playtest document in flux, I don't think that is unreasonable.
Right on.
As it stands, most of the posts have been "Things are going to be cool and different!" but with little idea how.
Let me be clear, I am already excited for the play test. Most of us, if not all, were already excited for the play test. However, five months is hard to sustain any excitement when what we are hearing is vague and hard to pin down.
People are looking for reasons to be excited and interested in the play test. For things to explain to their players that they want to try out. For things to look forward to. Right now, honestly, we're hearing that things are "different" and a lot of bits that appear to be pulled from Pathfinder Unchained and Starfinder.
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I like the teasers.
They are vague enough to make people nervous and hyperventilate in the forums. That will put some steam off and will make the play test forum much more readable in August