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Fact is Macron if he wins will already be in a weak position due to his being chosen as the lesser evil.
Weakening his position now will give Le Pen as big a score as possible, thereby legitimizing her attempt at becoming the first opposition party
IIRC Le Pen was the only candidate officially supported by Putin
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Hmm, I'm really not super familiar with the French election system. I know there's run off votes, but I don't quite understand what you mean by scores. Could you explain, or link to something that could explain this for me?Fact is Macron if he wins will already be in a weak position due to his being chosen as the lesser evil.
Weakening his position now will give Le Pen as big a score as possible, thereby legitimizing her attempt at becoming the first opposition party
IIRC Le Pen was the only candidate officially supported by Putin
Sorry, I used a french word without checking what its meaning was in English
I meant result, as a percentage of votes given to a candidate
If Le Pen ends up with 45% and Macron 55%, she will play a stronger role in the future than if she ends with 20% and Macron 80%
Because other parties will treat her as being representative of far more people
It is not a legal conséquence, but a political one
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75% voter turnout? That's an amazing turnout, honestly. US voter turnout hovers around 57%, and Canada isn't much better at about 64%
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Macron is elected, with...
65,9 % !
Edit: 75% is the worse turnout ever for a presidential élection. We are used to more than 80%.
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Those results are reassuring.
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Well, the French are officially smarter than we are.
so, like Austrians before them, French knew better than elect extreme right.
Reassuring that we at least learned from history
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Now that Le Pen isn't a current (big) threat anymore then, we can start to discuss Macron's shortcomings. As the poor turnout demonstrates, he has a comparatively weak mandate, because a lot of people are unhappy with him too. He's a crony of the Bilderberg elite and under him we're unlikely to see the kind of social reform that modern western society requires for the unemployed and undereducated.
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75% voter turnout? That's an amazing turnout, honestly. US voter turnout hovers around 57%, and Canada isn't much better at about 64%
Matter of perspective. In Sweden we're worried because it's dropped to 80% and a bit.
75% voter turnout? That's an amazing turnout, honestly. US voter turnout hovers around 57%, and Canada isn't much better at about 64%Matter of perspective. In Sweden we're worried because it's dropped to 80% and a bit.
Fair enough, I was rather North American-Centric. Especially as that is actually a very low turnout for France comparatively. Only place I suspect would be higher is Australia, and that's because there not voting is actually illegal. (Punishable by fine, if I recall.)
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Fair enough, I was rather North American-Centric. Especially as that is actually a very low turnout for France comparatively. Only place I suspect would be higher is Australia, and that's because there not voting is actually illegal. (Punishable by fine, if I recall.)75% voter turnout? That's an amazing turnout, honestly. US voter turnout hovers around 57%, and Canada isn't much better at about 64%Matter of perspective. In Sweden we're worried because it's dropped to 80% and a bit.
That's correct. Though there's plenty of people who donkey vote (submit blank or nonsense votes), and some people don't vote because the fine is rarely enforced. But I think voter turnout is still in high 90% of population.
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So, to answer the OP then,
No
I'm glad to have been incorrect to worry.
That's correct. Though there's plenty of people who donkey vote (submit blank or nonsense votes), and some people don't vote because the fine is rarely enforced. But I think voter turnout is still in high 90% of population.Fair enough, I was rather North American-Centric. Especially as that is actually a very low turnout for France comparatively. Only place I suspect would be higher is Australia, and that's because there not voting is actually illegal. (Punishable by fine, if I recall.)75% voter turnout? That's an amazing turnout, honestly. US voter turnout hovers around 57%, and Canada isn't much better at about 64%Matter of perspective. In Sweden we're worried because it's dropped to 80% and a bit.
In the most recent Swedish parliamentary election, Hodor got two votes. Which is the same amount as (among others) God, Jesus Christ, Mother Earth, Mickey Mouse, and "A Gnarly Dude."
In the most recent Swedish parliamentary election, Hodor got two votes. Which is the same amount as (among others) God, Jesus Christ, Mother Earth, Mickey Mouse, and "A Gnarly Dude."That's correct. Though there's plenty of people who donkey vote (submit blank or nonsense votes), and some people don't vote because the fine is rarely enforced. But I think voter turnout is still in high 90% of population.Fair enough, I was rather North American-Centric. Especially as that is actually a very low turnout for France comparatively. Only place I suspect would be higher is Australia, and that's because there not voting is actually illegal. (Punishable by fine, if I recall.)75% voter turnout? That's an amazing turnout, honestly. US voter turnout hovers around 57%, and Canada isn't much better at about 64%Matter of perspective. In Sweden we're worried because it's dropped to 80% and a bit.
That's 4 votes.
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That's 4 votes.
Only if you hold a particular set of beliefs about those two individuals. Some people believe in only one of them, others don't believe the Christian version of history, and some people don't believe that either of them ever existed.
So, if you believe that those are a single individual, then sure, in your universe that's 4 votes for one individual. Far more people don't think that's true at all. For them that's 2 votes apiece for two separate individuals.
If you're going to be pedantic, you should be thorough.
Only place I suspect would be higher is Australia, and that's because there not voting is actually illegal. (Punishable by fine, if I recall.)
You have to turn up, but it's not illegal to not vote.
It's a pedantic point, but I think important because the most common argument against our misnamed "compulsory voting" system (of which I'm a supporter) is "What if you don't like anyone?" which is a spurious objection.
You can't be apathetic, but you're not forced to participate in choosing our government if you don't want to. You just have to turn up and actively make the choice of abstention (and very few people actually choose to have no say or to donkey vote).
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Sigh. France gets to keep on bragging that they're more intelligent than America.
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I'm glad to have been incorrect to worry.So, to answer the OP then,
No
No you weren't, and I'd encourage everyone to remain vigilant. Nazis like Le Pen aren't going to just give up and roll over, especially when they are likely energized by getting over 34% of the vote. They will be back in force in the future. Stay alert, fellow Earthlings; winning one battle is not the war.
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It's never wrong to worry about Nazis coming into power.
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Sigh. France gets to keep on bragging that they're more intelligent than America.
Judging how Brexit went down and Labor keeps shooting itself in its own feet, they're more intelligent than Great Britain England and Wales too.
When the brits leave, we will see how deep their hole is. That will likely make some pretty bad press for *exits in the future. I suspect they have a window now where they can use *exit as a selling point.
Note also that Macron will have a difficult time doing much of anything unless he gets supporters into the parliament in the legislative election in a month. This was a win for him, but even the battle is far from over.
No you weren't, and I'd encourage everyone to remain vigilant. Nazis like Le Pen aren't going to just give up and roll over, especially when they are likely energized by getting over 34% of the vote. They will be back in force in the future. Stay alert, fellow Earthlings; winning one battle is not the war.I'm glad to have been incorrect to worry.So, to answer the OP then,
No
Sad, but true.
Still didn't do enough to change the outcome. France was smart to say "Nope! Not LePen! At least now anyway!" 2022...might be different.
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I believe worldwide economic growth is finally coming back. Since economic crises is what fuels the populists, I think we have seen the worst of them in France for a long long time
:-)
Also I do not think we are smarter than other countries. Our political system is just better equiped to deal with mass craziness because it gives us enough time to consider what the actual consequences of our vote will be
Brexit and the US electoral college did not provide any such safeguards
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I believe worldwide economic growth is finally coming back. Since economic crises is what fuels the populists, I think we have seen the worst of them in France for a long long time
:-)
I'm not so optimistic about that. Macron might be the last chance, because if he fails, then there will be nobody left to stop LePens rise to power. And given the german (and others) reactions on Macron's first suggestions regarding the necessary change of the European Union, I'm not sure if he can count on too much support from abroad. So we can only hope that the socialists and republicans in France are rational enough to support him as good as they can. Given that they were the ones that caused the whole mess, I don't trust them to be rational, though.
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If populists are still en vogue in 2022 Melenchon will be in a good position to tackle Le Pen. Doubly so since Le Pen's Front National is undergoing strong inner turmoil and settling of accounts now that they came close to winning and lost
Being a populist party does not make it exempt from power plays. Quite the opposite in fact
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Being a populist party does not make it exempt from power plays. Quite the opposite in fact
Yeah, I know. Here in Germany, that's the only thing keeping the AFD from making any meaningful progress towards power.
Problem being that our elected politicians don't seem to understand that those power struggles do not remove the problems that brought the party into existence and that the power struggles within the AFD shouldn't taken as an excuse to do business as usual.
Apart from that, I'm not sure if I think that Melenchon is anyhow better than LePen just because he's a leftist. If he was more like Bernie Sanders (or, to stay in Europe, like our Helmut Schmidt or your Mitterand) I'd probably think otherwise, but unluckily he isn't even close to any of them. Which makes him part of the problem, not of the solution.
No surprise in the result..... at heart the French have always been pretty socialist. Its no wonder they are so pro-EU.
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No surprise in the result..... at heart the French have always been pretty socialist. Its no wonder they are so pro-EU.
I am not sure where you take that the French have always been pretty socialist and that it explains the result
The Socialist party clearly stands in opposition to Macron right now
In the second turn, Macron was for the open market while Le Pen stood for protectionism. The open market is usually not very popular with socialists
Since the beginning of the Vth French Republic 59 years ago ; we have had socialist Presidents for 19 years and socialist governments for 20 years. That is like 1/3 vs 2/3 for the Right parties
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No surprise in the result..... at heart the French have always been pretty socialist. Its no wonder they are so pro-EU.I am not sure where you take that the French have always been pretty socialist and that it explains the result
You need to keep in mind that the US Republican definition of 'socialist' is pretty much what the rest of the world would call 'not fascist'.
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No surprise in the result..... at heart the French have always been pretty socialist. Its no wonder they are so pro-EU.I am not sure where you take that the French have always been pretty socialist
Doc roc has a rather individual take on the political spectrum. Check his posting history for confirmation. He considers Mussolini to be center-left and Hitler to be center right. Basically, if you're not actively campaigning for persecution of religious minorities, you're a socialist.
By that standard, of course, France is indeed pretty socialist; I think the only centrist government in his view was that of Pétain.
In terms of the phrase 'socialist' I didnt mean it in its literal translation.... more of an underlying attitude
Relative to the other European economic heavyweights, France has historically been fairly to the left.
Going on strike is almost a national past time and employee rights are at such a farcical level that it can grind businesses to a halt.
I have a mate who used to work for a global company in Paris and they actually had to close the offices there because of the ridiculous situation with strikes and HR.
The exact nature of things in 2017 I cant comment on, but he was there only 3-4 years ago and he said getting rid of incompetent staff was a nightmare... you virtually had to find them another job. In some industries the situation is so bad that companies prefer to keep sub-par staff because the hassle of getting rid of them is just not worth it.
A 'right wing' French party is no way near to a 'right wing' in US political terms or in UK or German terms!!
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ITT:
"Calling everyone with a different opinion a 'communist' is hyperbole".
Also ITT:
"Le pen is a fascist/nazi."
Wut?
I dislike Le Pen as much as the next guy (although I'm not particularly fond of Macron either), but this kind of incosistency is laughable.
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You say that, but a while back a French court ruled that LePen was not due damages for someone calling her a fascist as it accurately reflects the politics she espouses.