Why is there no Good succubus equivalent?


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The incubus has a good equivalent (the gancanagh azata, Bestiary 5 pg 38), but unless it's hidden away in an adventure path or softcover, there doesn't seem to be a good-aligned equivalent to the succubus.

Brief tangent:

Gancanagh, according to W. B. Yeats (1888):

Nicholas O'Kearney, a Louthman, deeply versed in Irish lore, writes of the gean-cánach (love-talker) that he is "another diminutive being of the same tribe as the Lepracaun, but, unlike him, he personated love and idleness, and always appeared with a dudeen in his jaw in lonesome valleys, and it was his custom to make love to shepherdesses and milkmaids. It was considered very unlucky to meet him, and whoever was known to have ruined his fortune by devotion to the fair sex was said to have met a gean-cánach. The dudeen, or ancient Irish tobacco pipe, found in our raths, etc., is still popularly called a gean-cánach's pipe." The word is not to be found in dictionaries, nor does this spirit appear to be well known, if known at all, in Connacht. The word is pronounced gánconâgh.

Now, of course, the gancanagh azata has the change shape ability and can thus adapt to any preference, but unlike, say, the doppelganger, their base form has a set biological gender, and both the description in the Bestiary and the lore on which the monster is based imply that this outsider race is entirely male.

This isn't an inherently bad thing; After all, the incubus is always male. I just find it odd that there is no succubus equivalent of good alignment.

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There wouldn't be.

The core of a Succubi seduction is a dishonet leading one away from what is "right" for them. One cannot be "tempted" to do what is right; Good is a choice, and must be so.

An honest "seduction" to "goodness" would require another mortal desiring a long term relationship (usually, but not always, marriage).


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Because if there were Good sexy outsiders who crave copious amounts of sexy time then attempts at demon redemption would drop to near 0.


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It may take some effort, but consider redeeming a succubus or two.


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I'm drawn to think of the Lillim "class" from In Nomine, as the daughters of Lilith in that game filled the succubus role as their powers enabled them to see what people want deep down and to extract favors from people (via geas) for giving them what they want. Obviously, as they were demons so this didn't usually work out well for the target; but they were some of the "nicer" demons as they were all born in Hell and weren't the corrupted versions of anything, they were just selfish and transaction-oriented.

It was exceedingly rare, but possible for one of the Lillim to be redeemed, and since they weren't the fallen versions of anything native to Heaven, there weren't others like them already up there. But their power transitioned from being able to see what people "need" rather than what they "want". They still got to extract favors from people in exchange for providing what the target needed, but since getting what you need is generally better for you than getting what you want (and they're angels now) this did usually work out well for the target. They were among the least selfless and most morally flexible angels, but the Bright Lillim were angels nonetheless.

So I would try to translate this idea, where a succubus who wants to, can be redeemed and take on some sort of angelic form and they remain able to tempt/encourage people, except they now tempt/encourage them in directions that are beneficial to the target without taking more than they give.

Dark Archive

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I feel like they would be servitors/heralds of Arshea or another extremely sex positive deity.


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Yeah. Arshea would be all in favor of angelic sex-therapists, helping people work out their issues and make peace with their sexual natures.


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Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Because if there were Good sexy outsiders who crave copious amounts of sexy time then attempts at demon redemption would drop to near 0.

Not only that, but Succubi are an embodiment of lust, something which I believe most celestials would agree upon as being a sin, and creating a Good equivalent of that without resulting in a recreation of a sin, would be pretty damn near impossible.

At best, you can create a "maiden of love" that follows and enforces the traditional regime of marriage as a "code of conduct" for celestials of their type to pursue. After all, trying to make it anything more than that brings it into the sinful territory of Demons, or the treacherous territory of Fae.

@ OP: I'd consider a Celestial Incubus similar to that of Cupid in mythology. Unfortunately, I'm not fully aware of a Celestial Succubus equivalent, though if there was, I imagine it'd be in typical Roman/Greek Mythology, which is filled with all sorts of issues with Pathfinder's alignment rules.


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I assume by "good-aligned equivalent to succubus" you mean a highly sexualized agathion or angel that likes to get it on with mortals but doesn't do so against their will or cause level drain. Basically, a teenage male fantasy where you get all of the sex and none of the consequences.

I guess the answer is, Pathfinder isn't that game. That's another game.


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Tinalles wrote:
Yeah. Arshea would be all in favor of angelic sex-therapists, helping people work out their issues and make peace with their sexual natures.

Lymnieris would also be thematic.


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John Mechalas wrote:

I assume by "good-aligned equivalent to succubus" you mean a highly sexualized agathion or angel that likes to get it on with mortals but doesn't do so against their will or cause level drain. Basically, a teenage male fantasy where you get all of the sex and none of the consequences.

I guess the answer is, Pathfinder isn't that game. That's another game.

Nah, Pathfinder just generally uses Fey for the consequence free sexy encounters.


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I have no real answer but my first thought when opening the threads was "Gancanagh in a grapple just doesn’t roll off the tongue".


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

At the risk of going slightly off-topic, I've never considered the succubus to be a "temptress"-style monster. That is, I don't think that her role is to try and lead people into committing evil acts by using sex as a lure.

Rather, the nature of a succubus is to be a predator.

In both classical mythology the succubus didn't tempt mortals; rather, she rode men as they slept and stole their seed (i.e. explaining nocturnal emissions, particularly for men who were supposedly trying to be devout) and then became an incubus and implanted that seed in unsuspecting women (i.e. providing an excuse for inconvenient pregnancies). At no point did it tempt anyone - at worst, you allowed it to act upon you because you weren't pious enough, but in that case the succubus acted upon you because you were at fault, not because it tried to lure you off the righteous path.

That was similar to how the succubus was portrayed in earlier editions of D&D, as well. Their modus operandi is to kiss (or have sex with) their targets, because that drains their life force. They have charm-based powers to enable them to keep doing that without their target resisting, as well as get closer to their target to begin with. Their other powers are based around camouflaging themselves, stealth, or bringing in reinforcements (remember how they could potentially gate in balors or even demon princes in AD&D 1E?).

The entire "tempt mortals into evil" thing was never what they were meant to be, as I see it. But because that archetype was so ubiquitous, so expected of what "evil + sexy" must be, that it quickly became attached to them, despite being a much more Lawful Evil method of operating than Chaotic Evil. This is why succubi eventually got moved over to being devils in 4E, and eventually put between demons and devils in 5E.

And, in all honesty, the entire idea of "tempting them into evil via sex" doesn't really work very well in D&D/Pathfinder, in my opinion. PCs are much too wise to this trick, and are more tempted by mechanical bonuses anyway (which is why Profane Gift, which was previously reserved for the Queen of Succubi in 3.5, became a standard succubus ability in Pathfinder). That reduced them to little more than a plot element for NPCs who go bad, and that doesn't really need a specialized monster to justify. Succubi work much better in their original incarnation as "black widow"-style killers [insert Scarlet Johanson joke here]. Killing people is what demons do, and so it makes more sense that that's what the succubus does.

And, of course, they're a lot of fun in a grapple (I know it's been said already in this thread, but succubi do it twice).


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This may or may not be what is asked for but what about a good outsider that specifically urges patience and honoring ones commitment through the promise of fulfilling some deepseated desire, an embodiment of the phrase 'good things come to those who wait'. Such a being probably doesn't exist to lure anyone back into the fold but rather to help younger folk make the 'right' decision when the time comes. I imagine these beings as individuals with varying methods to accomplish these goals. One could be severe and demanding, others could be enthrallingly innocent while yet another walks more of a grey area, being quite the tease, always leaving you wanting more. Subversion of temptation so it serves a good end is difficult but not impossible. At its most basic level this is the exact idea behind the biblical heaven: don't fall to earthly temptation and you shall be rewarded in the afterlife. I really don't see why such an entity couldn't exist within Pathfinder.


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One of the key problems here is the problem of content vs. page space- why would paizo waste the space to print something that isn't going to see much use?

Now, why would a good aligned succubus not see much use? You can see the answer by the fact that there are twice as many gods with the evil domain as good domain.

The core problem where is that there are basically two paradigms that content fits into for the most part- things that players can use (classes, items, spells), and things that players kill.

A new evil outsider is a new set of encounters, possibly even a quest chain as you deal with their minions and plots, or maybe seeking their weakness. A good outsider? Just some NPC you talk to a couple of times and then barely remember again.

This logic can be applied to the succubus- she is a representation of sex used as a tool for corruption- you have to deal with her trying to either trick you, trap you, or rob you. You also have to deal with her trying to manipulate people such as nobles that try to use their authority to stop you in order to please her. She can also be an interesting fight, since her enchantments mean she can mess with your party, or just have a big mean monster in the wings under her control. All of that is drama and conflict that the party has to overcome.

What drama comes from the good succubus equivalent? "She tried to seduce you, but she is an angel, so everyone just gives you high fives?".

It is possible to make drama (example- "that sting back there? Yeah, that was actually a cursed artifact. Sorry, I had to give it to someone to keep it safe from the demon lord. Yeah, you better get ready for some fights. Bye!")... but those are highly specific kinds of quests, while succubi could be tossed into anything as manipulative minions of someone else, like the court mage.

There is a reason why the main 'sexy' goddess of the core gods is CN. Calistria's lot are associated with both sex and spies. They can serve as information networks... or vengeful assassins if anger the wrong person. A good outsider is usually too good to just randomly cause trouble for you... so you rarely see them used since this game thrives on trouble. Evil, or at least 'violent neutral', is what is the core of this game's nonplayer content.


because lust, as examplified by succubus, is a capital sin in our culture and there are no outsiders of marital bliss allowed to exit the outer planes, and they wouldn't sleep with your wizard without being married to him anyway.

why do you think that only martyrs get houris in paradise? because they are already dead, and not gonna be resurrected.


Snowlilly wrote:
It may take some effort, but consider redeeming a succubus or two.

reddeming an outsider outside of its official alignement, is that even possible?

Angels falling is a lot rarer than paldins doing so, maybe because angles have wings... but demons and devils getting reeemed that's about unheard of

The Exchange

I think it's called a Prostitute.


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Nymphs are the good succubus equivalent.

Shadow Lodge

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Klorox wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
It may take some effort, but consider redeeming a succubus or two.
reddeming an outsider outside of its official alignement, is that even possible?

It is a long-standing tradition.

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Lillend azatas are close enough. The only thing I would change is giving them shapechange so they can blend into societies and subtly influence poets and artists without them knowing. Plus,it's easier to inspire when you can change into anything.


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Snowlilly wrote:
It may take some effort, but consider redeeming a succubus or two.

As a good and holy man, I intend to redeem dozens in my life. It's a hard job, but someone has to do it.


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More likely a Celestial Succubus would be a lot more complex than a sexpot.

Love, to the celestial mindset, can only be consensual, and so by nature they're repulsed by the idea of using sex to manipulate, in any form. So the angelic version of a sexy demon is more likely to be a platonic companion in theory; their purpose is to provide a shoulder and be a friend, not to screw you.

They often end up screwing you, because once again they exist to be companions; they emphasize and are interested by nature, and thus any amount of compatibility often causes "friend" to look a great deal more like "spouse." Add that to being generally there for people who need them, and there's probably a betting pool among the azata if they smell chemistry as to how long it's going to be before their sister (or brother)'s psychotherapy session is prematurely ended with both patient and doctor on the couch and the clipboard joining the clothes (metaphorically or otherwise).


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lemeres wrote:
What drama comes from the good succubus equivalent? "She tried to seduce you, but she is an angel, so everyone just gives you high fives?".

Hehe, now I am imagining a campaign where the PCs have to fight through her several thousand other suitors while somehow still being good enough to impress her to go on a date.

And of course if you do wind up in a relationship demon lords will keep trying to capture her all Bowser-like because everyone wants an angel-succubus, so the PCs have to Mario it down into the depths of the universe's plumbing to rescue her. But then a different demon lord will have stolen her from the first. What a twist!

"Your angel-succubus is in another castle!"


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Klorox wrote:
because lust, as examplified by succubus, is a capital sin in our culture...

Maybe in your culture. Thankfully it isn't in mine.


Cyrad wrote:
Lillend azatas are close enough. The only thing I would change is giving them shapechange so they can blend into societies and subtly influence poets and artists without them knowing. Plus,it's easier to inspire when you can change into anything.

Pretty much what I was thinking

Grand Lodge

Does there need to be an equivalent for this? When do you stop? Does anyone have the Good scarecrow equivalent? A nicecrow? A placidcrow?


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There could always be a tantric outsider that takes advantage of the chakra rules in Occult Adventures. Swap the succubus's energy drain for sacral and heart chakra abilities, invert profane gift to a sacred gift, and leave pretty much everything else alone. This would work for a Shelynite or Arshean outsider, but it could be associated with one of the many unnamed Vudran deities, or even with the already mentioned but unexplored Cloud Sisters.

Likewise, the concept could also work in the context of compassionate surrogacy, which would put it in the realm of a fertility deity. Where the succubus selfishly steals sexual energy and occasionally spawns a semi-demonic child, a surrogate altruistically redistributes sexual energy on behalf of the infertile, and sometimes births a semi-celestial twin.

The question there would be figuring out which deity, if any, it would serve.

Erastil's monogamous nature paints him into a corner. Shelyn is explicitly not interested in fertility. Arshea's freedom/pleasure portfolio makes her unlikely to sponsor the responsibilities of childbearing.

Feronia would be a decent sponsor if good alignment weren't strictly required. A Cernunnos-sponsored surrogate sounds like it'd come with a few... potentially unwanted surprises.

Isis or Osirion are good-aligned fertility deities with relatively blank slates in Golarion. Neith isn't in canon, but she "opens the good pathways" and acts as a psychopomp, which is plenty enough to have her act as an outsider or demigod for new souls struggling to find a path to mortality.

Again, there's also Vudra, which could borrow India's Yogmaya and her mythical ability to transfer an embryo from one woman to another.


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Jader7777 wrote:
Does there need to be an equivalent for this? When do you stop? Does anyone have the Good scarecrow equivalent? A nicecrow? A placidcrow?

I think this is specific to fiends where people want to see what the other side of the coin would be.

This is, I believe, because of two notions for Christian Mythology:
1) That the native inhabitants of Heaven and Hell are the same sort of thing; indeed the original inhabitants of Hell were themselves Angels who fell from Grace.

2) That God's love and forgiveness is infinite, so that redemption is available to any who seek it.

(The second is less mythology and more "the point of the New Testament" but the former is more from Milton than the Bible).

So you see any sort of fiends in an RPG and wonder "what would the redeemed or pre-fall version of that thing look like?" and it's a reasonable enough notion, and familiar enough to a lot of people who grew up in Western cultures that it's worth considering.


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I support this make sure they get bonuses vrs wrestling bear-druids.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Y'all are far, far too obsessed with sex.

The ultimate opposite number of a succubus wouldn't have anything to do with *physical* sex and lust. She would be a beautiful, chaste and ideal maiden, and would only be the object of platonic love and devotion, the ultimate dream from deep in the chivalric code, the object of courtly love, as imagined by troubadours like Chrétien de Troyes and his pals.

Delicate as a crystal flower, untouchable as the heart of the sun.


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I could insert some Freud here but i'm a better person then that.


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Could have an azata who's job is to create specific aasimar in the mortal realm to fulfil heroic prophecies.


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It might even go as far as Galadriel's lovely speech, when tempted with the ring:

Galadriel wrote:
All shall love me, and despair!

Grand Lodge

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
I could insert some Freud here but i'm a better person then that.

Around Freuds time there was a lot more sexual repression, even nudity and lewd clothing was near impossible to find without going underground. Most of his theories are pretty crazy, as you'd expect from someone who sung praises as to the rejuvenating effects of cocaine. Basically anything you want to apply his logic to is very outdated, why is this so? This generation is of the dick pic, send nudes and tinder.

Now imagine Freud as a millennial... Psychosexual that little development!


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The Primal Order had a creature called a sumitami in its monster book. This was a "super-human", set to watch over humanity in a playground of various other races and monsters. Specifically, the answer to why there still exists pureblooded humans. It had nothing against other races, but had the job to make sure humanity remained. It usually did this by acting as a matchmaker, and had powers regarding fertility.

Not exactly what you were looking for, perhaps.


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Klorox wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
It may take some effort, but consider redeeming a succubus or two.

reddeming an outsider outside of its official alignement, is that even possible?

Angels falling is a lot rarer than paldins doing so, maybe because angles have wings... but demons and devils getting reeemed that's about unheard of

According to Wrath of the Righteous:
It may indeed be possible. Maybe even more than once.

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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
Lillend azatas are close enough. The only thing I would change is giving them shapechange so they can blend into societies and subtly influence poets and artists without them knowing. Plus,it's easier to inspire when you can change into anything.
Pretty much what I was thinking

In WotW there is a lillend who has two alternative forms and has some cohorts/lovers who regard her almost as a goddess.

Close enough.


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Wheldrake wrote:

Y'all are far, far too obsessed with sex.

The ultimate opposite number of a succubus wouldn't have anything to do with *physical* sex and lust. She would be a beautiful, chaste and ideal maiden, and would only be the object of platonic love and devotion, the ultimate dream from deep in the chivalric code, the object of courtly love, as imagined by troubadours like Chrétien de Troyes and his pals.

Delicate as a crystal flower, untouchable as the heart of the sun.

You literally mean Spendarmard/Spenta Armaiti from the Avesta don't you?... I guess she'd count as an Azata of very high level, an individual one, not a category.

Shadow Lodge

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I have Pfs Summoner/Eidolon married couple, who might fit this definition, rather the Eidolon might.

Basically, she is the characters Muse, who prevents him from seeing the world in ways that are so easy to fall into, and inspires him to be a genuinely good person.

Without her, he would be a typical Taldan noble, with a sense of disappointment and sense that he missed something very important. With her, he risks for others, is brave and a genuinely giving good person.

I could see a spiritual guide, either chaste or a lover, short term or long term, like a Muse, whose encounter has a lasting effect on a person, making them better because, by learning how to love, they become, good.


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Klorox wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
It may take some effort, but consider redeeming a succubus or two.

reddeming an outsider outside of its official alignement, is that even possible?

Angels falling is a lot rarer than paldins doing so, maybe because angles have wings... but demons and devils getting reeemed that's about unheard of

There may be an AP or two with a risen succubus.


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I think it was already explored, but is not the real nature of "sin of lust" the total lack of empathy for the one you find attractive? The total reductionist kind of thinking were you reduce someone to just "meat"?

Reflecting on its counterpart, virtue of chastity, "good succubus" would be celestial that rewards you with the pleasure of sex if you commit to something that asks for a sacrifice from you. In a cliche way, you could say just "learning to know her" for selfless reasons. Since chastity is not really "lack of temptation" as much as "resisting temptation". If you resist long enough, you get your just desserts.


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In addition to some of the other examples that have already been presented, for some reason the premise of this thread reminds me of "the maiden" in Haïta the Shepherd by Ambrose Bierce.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
2) That God's love and forgiveness is infinite, so that redemption is available to any who seek it.

Something to this effect was mentioned in August 1979 Dragon Magazine article, The Politics of Hell :

Dragon Magazine #28, page 2 wrote:
It is also said that God misses Satan, and that He hopes that he will repent and ask God’s forgiveness, which of course He will grant to any of the fallen angels (although God may require some service to be performed, in order to test their newfound devotion to the cause of righteousness. It is thought that it is this possibility that holds many of the devils back from repentance. Whatever the reason, none of the devils have repented.)

Shadow Lodge

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I'm seeing a lot of "you can't have a promiscuous good outsider" on here...

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
At best, you can create a "maiden of love" that follows and enforces the traditional regime of marriage as a "code of conduct" for celestials of their type to pursue. After all, trying to make it anything more than that brings it into the sinful territory of Demons, or the treacherous territory of Fae.
Lord Fyre wrote:
An honest "seduction" to "goodness" would require another mortal desiring a long term relationship (usually, but not always, marriage).
Arcane Addict wrote:
This may or may not be what is asked for but what about a good outsider that specifically urges patience and honoring ones commitment through the promise of fulfilling some deepseated desire, an embodiment of the phrase 'good things come to those who wait'.
Wheldrake wrote:
The ultimate opposite number of a succubus wouldn't have anything to do with *physical* sex and lust. She would be a beautiful, chaste and ideal maiden, and would only be the object of platonic love and devotion...

Pathfinder doesn't generally present sex as a temptation that needs to be resisted unless one is inside a committed, long-term relationship. You certainly could have an angel devoted to encouraging mortals respect their marriage vows, but that's not the only context in which a celestial could approve of sex. Arshea and Lymneris both of have the Lust subdomain.

My understanding is that Envall is correct - the "sinful" element of lust is objectification - using another person as a tool to fulfill your desires without respect for their dignity or wellbeing. As Alzrius said, the succubus is predatory. Even if you do decide to change her methods to be more manipulative, in the end, she Energy Drains her lovers.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Nymphs are the good succubus equivalent.

This is more likely the reason - combined with lemeres' observation that there's less use for good monsters than evil ones in most campaigns. Nymphs may not be outsiders, but they fill the "niche" for a good-aligned supernaturally sexy female.

Dark Archive

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Yeah! And while we're at it, where's the LG counterparts of the Eldritch mythos? Give me a writhing alien mass of incomprehensible proportions that spreads sanity and peace throughout the cosmos!

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LuniasM wrote:
Yeah! And while we're at it, where's the LG counterparts of the Eldritch mythos? Give me a writhing alien mass of incomprehensible proportions that spreads sanity and peace throughout the cosmos!

I believe those are Flumphs.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
LuniasM wrote:
Yeah! And while we're at it, where's the LG counterparts of the Eldritch mythos? Give me a writhing alien mass of incomprehensible proportions that spreads sanity and peace throughout the cosmos!

Amusingly enough, I have seen a serious attempt at something like that, albeit in third-party 3.5.

The lumina were a group of epic-level alien, Far Realm-esque beings that originally appeared in Legends of Avadnu before being reprinted in The Complete Book of Denizens. The idea was that they were from a realm where goodness was an intrinsic part of the fabric of existence, akin to gravity, and so saw the universe of the PCs as being a realm of incomprehensible evil that was poisonous to even exist in, let alone interact with.


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Weirdo wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of "you can't have a promiscuous good outsider" on here...

Because a lot of people would presume that Paladins (and similarly-bound Celestial beings) who slum the streets being a(n) [obvious expletive goes here] are certainly not behaving within the codes of their patron deity or their Paladinhood.

Maybe it's a pre-conceived notion, but there is a lot more evidence, both historical and fantastical, that creatures akin to Succubi, even with the intentions of "Good," are still more along the lines of sinful entities, than being servants of Good.

This isn't true just of a subject as sex, but also with other "controversial" concepts, such as murder or slavery.

Thinking further on this subject, I suppose a celestial of fertility (whose idea of spreading good is through proper and healthy procreation) can be plausible; as you've pointed out, there are deities who have sex as part of their portfolio, so a celestial such as I've described prior is certainly within reason.

But again, you'd have to be very creative in how you'd execute such things, as a popular belief, both in fantasy and real life, is that concepts such as this falls more along the realms of sin and evil, than of virtue and good, and failure of such proper execution results in an observer unable to read between the lines, and as such, draws an improper or premature conclusion. Yes, pun intended.

**EDIT** Engrish is hard.


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I feel the need to straighten something out here. I suppose it is due to the sensitive nature of the topic of sex and promiscuity that causes us to perceive one another's comments to be seen through our own colored lenses. Understandable, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to let it go when my words are given meaning beyond what I said. You see, I haven't mentioned sex or promiscuity in my previous post, at all. I suggested an entity embodying the opposite of temptation, not the opposite of lust or even just sexual appetite. Sure, it could be but it encompasses so many more possibilities.
Really, if you just wanted a celestial copy of the succubus this topic could've been closed off by advising switching out the typical evil outsider traits with their good equivalents and calling it a day.


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I think the "evil succubi tempt you with what you want or desire" vs. "good succubi offer you what you need or would benefit from" is probably the appropriate distinction here.

I prefer succubi to be more versatile temptresses, not purely tempting one with sexual gratification but also things like status, wealth, and power.

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