Do you threaten when you spend all your attacks of opportunity?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

RAW

"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity."

However if you've spent your Attacks of Opportunity for the round, do you no longer threaten until the next time you're able to make a melee attack (i.e next round or turn)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You still threaten even if you use your one AoO, or all of them if the Character has Combat Reflexes. There are abilities that give AoO's that do not count against the number of AoO's, or require one be available to use.

There is also the ability to Flank targets, which the character would still provide for the rogue on the other side of the foe.


I believe the answer is yes you do. Threaten is used for many different mechanics, including flanking. If you can make a melee attack into a square, you threaten it. The wording you quoted says nothing about running out of AOO. Something that provides you an AOO always does so, if you can't take advantage of it that is one thing, but it is still provided.


Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I honestly agree, but I've got a player who plays Super RAW.

Reading it states that to threaten to be able to make a melee attack. His argument is that without any remaining AoO you can't make any melee attacks much like you can't make a ranged attack with a crossbow without bolts.

Flanking requires a character to threaten, so the question actually influences whether or not you can flank, use team-work feats or other abilities that rely on a creature being threatened.

If there are any references to help clarify I'd greatly appreciate it.

Sovereign Court

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The rules for threatening don't ever mention needing AoOs. The rules for AoOs need threatening. It isn't a symmetric thing.

That's all you need really.


"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack" reads as "A square that you can attack into".

It does not say you must have an attack available to use.

If the rules said "you must be able to attack in that square, and you must have an AoO availble in order to threaten" then he would be right.

Tell him to show the rule that says that, otherwise his inference is just that.

Also Mark(a dev/rules guy) has a thread("ask mark.....") you can ask in. Lately he has been active. I would post the question there before he gets pulled into another project and gets too busy to respond.

Sovereign Court

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Really, the burden of proof is on your player. He has to prove that an AoO is required. You don't have to prove the rule doesn't exist - he needs to prove that it does exist.


Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for the suggestions and clarification guys. It's been helpful.


Since everything has been clarified, if they persist, use this thread for your reasoning and the examples shown here and state, as the GM, this is how you rule and it's final.

If they don't like it...well, that's their prerogative.


It's been clarified I think by FAQ, that someone total defending still provides flanking, even though they are unable to take AoOs, because they threaten.

Threatening is, if on your turn with the wielded weapon you could make a melee attack you threaten. Thus you can threaten if they have cover to you and provide flanking.


"Kudaku" - Melee Tactics Toolbox, p. 8 wrote:
Using the total defense action prevents you from attacking — including making attacks of opportunity — but you still threaten foes for the purposes of flanking.


Suz wrote:

RAW

"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity."

However if you've spent your Attacks of Opportunity for the round, do you no longer threaten until the next time you're able to make a melee attack (i.e next round or turn)

Yes you do for purposes of flanking, at the very least.

Sovereign Court

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Havoq wrote:
"Kudaku" - Melee Tactics Toolbox, p. 8 wrote:
Using the total defense action prevents you from attacking — including making attacks of opportunity — but you still threaten foes for the purposes of flanking.

That solves it. You can't make AoOs but you still threaten for flanking? Then clearly AoOs were not a requirement for flanking.

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