Please no Ultimate XX....or YY adventures


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Dear Paizo I humblely ask that you please that you actually make and publish more hardback material for Inner Sea instead of releasing more general rules additions. In my opinion you have neglected the Inner Sea and short handed the fans of the setting. Some more in depth region books (at least 200pgs) would be nice, please.
And thank you


The campaign setting line does a pretty good job of covering various regions. If you haven't gotten January's Qadira book, I think you'll be impressed! That said, the Adventurer's Guide is going to be an Inner Sea hardcover with at least 18 prestige classes and at least 36 archetypes, all centered around various organizations of Golarion.


If its less then 200 pages, I doubt I will be impressed. I want a literal GUIDE.I want to k,ow when the rainy season is. How much rain fall is in the rainy season. I want a general idea of the mundane than a in the region. I want city info like that found in Korvoso (sp?) book. I want to know the goblins of the region is different then the goblins of a region hundreds of leagues away. In short I want in depth fluff. Massively in depth fluff. The likes of Forgotten Realms or Eberron. And btw if i wanted to use those worlds I would. I like Golarion enough that I want to know it well.


They have something like what you want (within reason), it's just split into different books. Qadira, Jewel of the East is 64 pages, with information on neighboring relations, a system of patronage, the treatment of various races, the roles of almost all the classes, what constitutes good manners, notable locations, institutions of higher learning, and more. Covering even a dozen of the Inner Sea nations in a 400 page book would leave less than 40 pages per region. If the campaign setting books that focus on a region aren't detailed enough for you, then giving them less space by smashing it into one book doesn't fix it.

You're not getting rainfall tables, though.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you want rainfall tables, it means you have figured out how do dragons and t-rexes share the same ecosystems as apex predators or what is the ecology of that kaiju-infested jungle they have in Valashmai ;-)


First I didn't say smash all the regions into one book. I want each individual region to have its own book. A very in depth book. A book that if I wanted to I could buy the Core Book, the Bestairy and that 1 region book and have a fully developed game. I want to know the climate. Is what I am saying. The desert in Arizona is different then the desert of Utah. And they are both different then Chad
And yes I know,its a fantasy world, but I still would,like to k,ow the actual climate. Exactly how cold does the winter of Numeria get? How hot does the summers of Galt get? Its little things like that that makes a world come alive. And also helps design encounters. I really felt they half assed the so call guides for the current regions that has been done. Just enough to shoe horn you into a model, but not enough to let you flesh it out.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

>_>

You're basically asking for a specific minutia that not a whole lot of people would care about.

Short of hot/cold and supernaturally hot/cold that amount of detail, a difference of 10 or so degrees, has never affected gameplay or encounters.


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Its more then the temps. Its bout thourohhly fleshing out the area. A hardback book for a region could cover the major cities of the region with more then 1 page. The ruins of the area could to be detailed with more then half a page. Local factions, not global factions could be brought in. Thieves guilds detailed. Regional magic spells and items could be in it. As was pointed out, they have to a degree done this for some places spreading it out in several books. I do t have that kind of money. I don't have the time to develop my own stuff. I have a job, bills, a house to take care of, a vehicle to take care of. And I am sure other people feel the same as me.


Mayhemm001 wrote:
Its bout thourohhly fleshing out the area.

What exactly you are aiming for? A simulation as realistic as possible? Or added value for your players? Because providing the exact rain amount and similiar details will only serve the first of both.

If you want to engage players, two or three interesting details about a new location is usually enough:

'The corridor is unusually broad and high.'
'There is a small stench of decay in the air.'

That already gives a strong impression what could be expected and brings up emotions. No numbers or full descriptions needed, they would rather spoil the impression.

Quote:
I don't have the time to develop my own stuff.

Well, you could go for modules or adventure paths. They are usually good at describing a new situation - at least APs include small descriptions you can simply read.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mayhemm001 wrote:
Its more then the temps. Its bout thourohhly fleshing out the area. A hardback book for a region could cover the major cities of the region with more then 1 page. The ruins of the area could to be detailed with more then half a page. Local factions, not global factions could be brought in. Thieves guilds detailed. Regional magic spells and items could be in it. As was pointed out, they have to a degree done this for some places spreading it out in several books. I do t have that kind of money. I don't have the time to develop my own stuff. I have a job, bills, a house to take care of, a vehicle to take care of. And I am sure other people feel the same as me.

The Inner Sea World Guide is the closest you're going to get to a "Big Book of Golarion" anything more specific or specialized than that would be in the APs or the Campaign setting line.

Shadow Lodge

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Mayhemm001 wrote:

Dear Paizo I humblely ask that you please that you actually make and publish more hardback material for Inner Sea instead of releasing more general rules additions. In my opinion you have neglected the Inner Sea and short handed the fans of the setting. Some more in depth region books (at least 200pgs) would be nice, please.

And thank you

And many of us think that the Inner Sea is covered to a reasonable degree and would like more details for adventuring outside of the region. I think that the page count you are asking for would be better spent on the areas of the Inner Sea that don't have enough information to run a campaign on yet, as well as other regions of Golarion.

The depth you are asking for is excessive and not broad enough in appeal.


I never said a big book of Golarion. I said REGION books. As in 1 book for 1 region. Then another different book for 1 region

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mayhemm001 wrote:
I never said a big book of Golarion. I said REGION books. And in 1 book for 1 region. Then another different book for 1 region

They already do that.

Shadow Lodge

Just not to his taste.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
TOZ wrote:
Just not to his taste.

I iz aware.


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What does bromance have to do with anything. :-)

Just asking.


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Captain ? wrote:

What does bromance have to do with anything. :-)

Just asking.

I don't know, but I kind of want that book now.

Shadow Lodge

Those are examples of books he would NOT like to see, as they would take up the space in the product schedule he wants used for his preferences.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

TOZ, Rysky and Cpt. The Day After Yesterday! My favourite forum bromances!


Captain ? wrote:
What does bromance have to do with anything. :-)

Dude, like, bromance is beautiful, man. It's like a romance, but you know, with your bros, man... your bros!

Think about it.

Also, man, your name is, like, punctuation. That is so cool...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Oh! Well then, I also have a list of demands.

pulls out obnoxiously long scroll, let's it roll across the floor, puts obnoxiously small reading glasses on, clears throat.

Ahem.

GALT!!!!!!!!

That is all.


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Is anyone else out there interested in exploring necbromancy?


That's correct. Not to my taste. The so called region guides are half assed. I want basically a region guide campaign setting.

And as for Ultimate Bromance....I was being sarcastic coz they seem more concerned with making more rules books then fleshing out their own IP. And yes I know they release numerous "books" bout the Inner Sea....which in my opinion is just magazines.....


Captain ? wrote:

What does bromance have to do with anything. :-)

Just asking.

Sounds like he thinks that Paizo is headding too far into gay space. Or he doesn't want to see another teamwork feat published..... ever.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Well then, you might want to try that again. And this time, try not insulting their work.

Just saying. :-)


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Mayhemm001 wrote:

That's correct. Not to my taste. The so called region guides are half assed. I want basically a region guide campaign setting.

And as for Ultimate Bromance....I was being sarcastic coz they seem more concerned with making more rules books then fleshing out their own IP. And yes I know they release numerous "books" bout the Inner Sea....which in my opinion is just magazines.....

It is so hard to get good help these days. Perhaps if you reinstate some form of involuntary servitude for the creative classes, you will better be able to dictate their products to suit your fancy. Till then, I'm afraid you'll just have to be content with being abusive and entitled. That'll work, though. I can't see why it wouldn't.

Shadow Lodge

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Mayhemm001 wrote:
That's correct. Not to my taste. The so called region guides are half assed. I want basically a region guide campaign setting.

I have a feeling you are within the minority.


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TOZ wrote:
Mayhemm001 wrote:
That's correct. Not to my taste. The so called region guides are half assed. I want basically a region guide campaign setting.
I have a feeling you are within the minority.

But... but... he called their work to date "half-assed"! Surely that level of insightful analysis indicates a moral and aesthetic superiority that makes his opinion worth easily that of any possible majority, right?

Silver Crusade

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Just when I thought it was safe to read the Paizo forums, I find the dead bromancers have been necromanced into a hedious parody of life.

I do think a 200+ page Island of Kortos/City of Absalom book would be useful.


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Ajaxis wrote:

Just when I thought it was safe to read the Paizo forums, I find the dead bromancers have been necromanced into a hedious parody of life.

I do think a 200+ page Island of Kortos/City of Absalom book would be useful.

For what? PFS Scenarios generally give the detail for the specific areas you need for said Scenario. GMs and players are hauling back breaking loads to tables as it is. Last thing they want is another required hardback. The only thing this book will be useful for is players who get a kick out of derailing tables by saying they are going to Bar X on the other side of town from wherever the scenario action is taking place.

Isn't there a map or city guide of Absalom published already?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ajaxis wrote:

Just when I thought it was safe to read the Paizo forums, I find the dead bromancers have been necromanced into a hedious parody of life.

I do think a 200+ page Island of Kortos/City of Absalom book would be useful.

Not just useful, but AWESOME as well. Especially if it came with a poster map of Absalom (with greater detail then the original book allowed).

Shadow Lodge

My iPad is pretty light, actually. </privilege>


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Ajaxis wrote:

Just when I thought it was safe to read the Paizo forums, I find the dead bromancers have been necromanced into a hedious parody of life.

I do think a 200+ page Island of Kortos/City of Absalom book would be useful.

For what? PFS Scenarios generally give the detail for the specific areas you need for said Scenario. GMs and players are hauling back breaking loads to tables as it is. Last thing they want is another required hardback. The only thing this book will be useful for is players who get a kick out of derailing tables by saying they are going to Bar X on the other side of town from wherever the scenario action is taking place.

Isn't there a map or city guide of Absalom published already?

There is, but it was one of their first books, and they weren't happy with the map I believe and it has other inconsistencies they would like to fix. It's a great book though. :-)


captain yesterday wrote:
Ajaxis wrote:

Just when I thought it was safe to read the Paizo forums, I find the dead bromancers have been necromanced into a hedious parody of life.

I do think a 200+ page Island of Kortos/City of Absalom book would be useful.

Not just useful, but AWESOME as well. Especially if it came with a poster map of Absalom (with greater detail then the original book allowed).

A 1:1 scale poster map of Absalom!


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Gorbacz wrote:
TOZ, Rysky and Cpt. The Day After Yesterday! My favourite forum bromances!

I ship it.

Silver Crusade

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Guide to Absalom is all right. Too few pages to do the City at the Center of the World justice. I'd love something like the Ptolus applied to Absalom.


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Seems to me that the settings books they release are more about helping to flesh out stories set in a given region, not about giving an exact topographical and meteorological survey. If you think about Tolkien, to use a played-out example, he never gives us the rain index for Rohan, but the stories that occur there are still extremely evocative. As Drahliana stated, giving the level of detail and depth you're requesting would do little more for the game than equip people with the ability to derail games.


thejeff wrote:
A 1:1 scale poster map of Absalom!

Shades of Borges!


thejeff wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Ajaxis wrote:

Just when I thought it was safe to read the Paizo forums, I find the dead bromancers have been necromanced into a hedious parody of life.

I do think a 200+ page Island of Kortos/City of Absalom book would be useful.

Not just useful, but AWESOME as well. Especially if it came with a poster map of Absalom (with greater detail then the original book allowed).
A 1:1 scale poster map of Absalom!

Why not ask for 1:1 map of Golarion while you're at it? :)


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quibblemuch wrote:
thejeff wrote:
A 1:1 scale poster map of Absalom!
Shades of Borges!

I keep my 1:1 scale map of the world one inch to the left.

Lantern Lodge

In regards to weather, you can use the equivalent region on Earth, and just go from there. I'm not certain how to rectify the ecology, though beyond applying a slight bit of handwavium to your games I suppose working down the predation pyramid in regards to the necessary weight of meat/plant consumed/day would give you rough numbers as to how many of what may exist within a given area, provided that the area is limited. That ought to give you vague numbers, but weather and weather effects are something that also depends on how exacting you may want to be with your weather systems.

I would think that there's a bit of an inertia when it comes to the weather, or an active, not-too-well-known guild/deity that goes about making sure the weather doesn't go out of whack with all the people (per capita, really just how many people can?) casting spells that can alter the weather (cue the butterfly effect).


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Guide to Korvosa has lots of detail on the city, like the OP mentioned. As a big fan of the lore in our books as what first drew me into Pathfinder (which ironically, I pretty much don't work on since I'm a designer) I feel that the new Qadira really has a ton of cool setting info as well, and it's the same length as Guide to Korvosa. True, it's a region with a much larger scope than Korvosa and it has more space for rules and bestiary than GtK did, but it still seemed packed with lore to me.

Paizo Employee Designer

Also, I changed the title to reflect the OP's point but not use the potentially loaded example because it seemed to be derailing from the original topic.


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If the option is "general rules additions" or "minutiae about a specific setting", I'm 100% on board for "general rules additions."

I think a book telling us when the rainy season in Andoran is and how much it rains is of any value, because either "rainfall tables" are another thing the GM needs to track (ugh) or you're just going to ignore what's in the book and do what you were going to do anyway regarding rain. I mean, what's wrong with having the "rainy season" be whenever the GM wants it to be and have it rain as much as the GM wants it to?

The point of fleshing out settings should be to give people ideas for characters or stories to tell, because that helps to motivate plots and characters. Spelling out the traditional steps and music for Taldoran folk dancing doesn't really help anybody. You want to give enough detail to catch people's attention, but not so much that anybody needs to do extensive editing to make it fit their game.

I think they strike a good balance between "Golarion specific releases" (which I don't buy) and "Ultimate XX/YY Adventures" books (which I generally do) as is and not a lot needs to change. So sign me up for Pulp Adventures or Ultimate Tragicomedy


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If you're going to throw that kind of minutiae, at least make it generally applicable minutiae. I'm still waiting on somebody to figure out the half-cell potentials for mithril and orichalcum.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

If the option is "general rules additions" or "minutiae about a specific setting", I'm 100% on board for "general rules additions."

I think a book telling us when the rainy season in Andoran is and how much it rains is of any value, because either "rainfall tables" are another thing the GM needs to track (ugh) or you're just going to ignore what's in the book and do what you were going to do anyway regarding rain. I mean, what's wrong with having the "rainy season" be whenever the GM wants it to be and have it rain as much as the GM wants it to?

Verisimilitude.

Not necessarily to the level the OP wants, but weather patterns do shape culture. It's nice to know that this country is foggy and rainy most of the year - stereotypical London!, while this one has an extended dry season and gets nearly all its rain in a short monsoon season, etc.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've had a player walk out of a game when I told him that there are no rules for what happens when you cast a lightning bolt underwater. I tried to deflect the problem using the "buuuht magic!" argument, but he was adamant.

Ever since I always bring that up when somebody goes 120% realism in D&D.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Gorbacz wrote:

I've had a player walk out of a game when I told him that there are no rules for what happens when you cast a lightning bolt underwater. I tried to deflect the problem using the "buuuht magic!" argument, but he was adamant.

Ever since I always bring that up when somebody goes 120% realism in D&D.

With Aquatic Adventures, your buddy can finally have what he's been searching for all those years!

Though sadly for him, it basically works the same in this case, as you told him, but there's a rule now to tell him that just like he wanted!


thejeff wrote:

Verisimilitude.

Not necessarily to the level the OP wants, but weather patterns do shape culture. It's nice to know that this country is foggy and rainy most of the year - stereotypical London!, while this one has an extended dry season and gets nearly all its rain in a short monsoon season, etc.

But the thing is, what books get printed are a combination of "what the authors think is interesting" and "what's going to sell." If the author doesn't think rainfall tables are interesting they won't put them in the book. If the extent they think the weather matters is to set the atmosphere, they don't need to devote more than a few lines to it (after all, page counts are finite).

Verisimilitude also cuts the other way, if something is equatorial and is described as having coastal jungle, you don't really need a book to tell you how much it rains there, you can just refer to what the weather is like in real world places that are geographically similar. Learning what something is like in a real place to figure out how it should be in a fictional one is probably good for your soul.

It's fine to just say "surrounded by deserts" and leave it at that without getting into how hot it is exactly.

People running these sorts of games want different sorts of things, some people get a lot from background details about official settings but already have enough rules to worry about, and some people want mechanics that help support different "feels" of games because they are going to run them in their own settings. Paizo is probably best suited to supporting both perspectives. So instead of telling them "don't publish books like this" (because someone probably loves those books; I adore Occult Adventures, Ultimate Intrigue, and Horror Adventures), but saying "here's what I'd like more of" is constructive in a way the former isn't.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I've had a player walk out of a game when I told him that there are no rules for what happens when you cast a lightning bolt underwater. I tried to deflect the problem using the "buuuht magic!" argument, but he was adamant.

Ever since I always bring that up when somebody goes 120% realism in D&D.

With Aquatic Adventures, your buddy can finally have what he's been searching for all those years!

Though sadly for him, it basically works the same in this case, as you told him, but there's a rule now to tell him that just like he wanted!

When I ran Plunder and Peril I decided that rays should refract under water and even came up with probably less than scientific rules for it. Players never decided test out them however.

I do sympathize the OP's point to a degree. Ultimate Intrigue feels like a book that codified aspects of the game that I feel never needed to be that mechanical. And it can always be said if you don't like it don't buy it and ban it from it from your table. But once it is out there someone is going to see it and use it. And some of these people are people I want to play with.

Last night I was running a PFS game and a player attempted to utilize the infamous cease fire feat during the surprise round of combat. After a moment of pause I decided the party could use the minute for buffing because I really didn't see the hostile NPC standing down to diplomacy but the player bought the book and took feat so it should probably be good for something shouldn't it.

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