Future of the Democratic Party


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Guy Humual wrote:
Canadian stuff

Thanks for the reply. All I'll add is that the last time I visited Toronto, probably around two decades ago, I stayed with comrades with children and was mightily impressed while watching some children's television show by a sketch about asking Canadian children to sing the national anthem. None of them knew the words past the first two lines, until the end of the bit, when two adorable Asian children belted out "O Canada."

I might have told that story before, but, if so, it's probably been years.


Guy Humual wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Assuming of course that there really is such a good/bad cop scam. Which I think is bull, but if there is then the only path to doing something about it is outside the political system they control.
Hear! Hear!
You see that thejeff? You're encouraging anarchy.

Propaganda by the deed! Rat-a-tat-tat!

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Canadian stuff

Thanks for the reply. All I'll add is that the last time I visited Toronto, probably around two decades ago, I stayed with comrades with children and was mightily impressed while watching some children's television show by a sketch about asking Canadian children to sing the national anthem. None of them knew the words past the first two lines, until the end of the bit, when two adorable Asian children belted out "O Canada."

I might have told that story before, but, if so, it's probably been years.

Well, the funny thing about the Canadian national anthem is that it exists in both French and English, It started as a French song actually, and sometimes when they're preforming for a national audience they'll use the bilingual version which switches to French after doing the first few bars in English.

People from my parent's generation grew up with God Save the Queen rather then O Canada. Our anthem has been around since 1880, been the de facto national anthem since 39, but it started out as a French song and the English translation was for years very clunky and hard to sing. It wasn't until 1980 that we got an English version (not an exact translation). And so, people from my parent's generation, folks who never really had to learn french, and never learned the clunky English translation, might sing our current version (which is pretty easy to remember and sing), but there's always that panic when it seeming shifts inexplicably into French.

When I was a kid I could sing both English and French versions, although I mostly knew the French version phonetically. I wonder, seeing as it was a Toronto show, if the kids were trying to remember the bilingual version of the song that shifts to French for a few bars?

For anyone wondering, this is the official bilingual version:

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.


Guy Humual wrote:
When I was a kid I could sing both English and French versions, although I mostly knew the French version phonetically. I wonder, seeing as it was a Toronto show, if the kids were trying to remember the bilingual version of the song that shifts to French for a few bars?

Couldn't say. It was on Saturday morning, it was some kind of Canadian Sesame Street, sketches intermixed with cartoons, although I don't recall any puppets. But you get the idea, a variety show.

For twenty years I took it as a healthy comment about Canada's relative lack of nationalist fervor. Didn't realize the anthem was bilingual. Makes more sense, but, gotta say, kinda disappointed now.

Sovereign Court

Speaking of nationalist fervor, the French version is kind of that sort of a song, while the modern English is much more passive. If you can understand a bit of French you can see in those four lines something about a sword (épée), a cross (croix), and "plus brillants exploits" almost doesn't need to be translated as the English words haven't deviated too much from the French root word.

Okay, no more talking about Canada in a thread about the path the Democrats need to take, I promise to try.

Liberty's Edge

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:

Trump's proposed budget has been announced.

Shock of shockers... it would massively decrease funding for the rural white portions of the country which put him in office. That said, it is SO extreme that it has little chance of getting enough votes to pass... despite GOP control of congress.

It targets for elimination a lot of GOP popular targets such as the National Endowments for the Arts and Humanities, PBS, climate programs in the EPA, environmental regulation, What's not for them to like?

This

Basically, they like winning elections more.


Trump's proposed budget eliminates the Appalachian Regional Commission, a federal agency responsible for promoting economic growth in the coal country region. It invests in small businesses, trains workers, and improves infrastructure in the region (internet/roads/water). The commission focuses its resources on the most economically distressed communities of the region.

I suspect that Congress won't actually eliminate the commission, since it's not exactly a well known program nationally, and is popular regionally. Representatives who represent affected districts like it, and want more of it, and not less of it.


There is also something like a 20% cut to the department of agriculture, including a ton of programs that benefit farmers and folks who live in rural communities. The budget is likely dead on arrival, although I am still not exactly hopeful things like the EPA or state department are going to skirt through without massive cuts


3 people marked this as a favorite.

One interesting thing is that Trump largely skated through the last election in part because he had NO history of legislation to criticize. Whoever runs up against him in 2020 is going to have no shortage of proposals to criticize in commercials.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Assuming of course that there really is such a good/bad cop scam. Which I think is bull, but if there is then the only path to doing something about it is outside the political system they control.
Hear! Hear!

How Brazil responds to budget slashing and pension reforms

National Day of Strike and Struggles puts General Strike on the Agenda

Badly translated from the Portuguese by the Morenoite comrades, but it's one of only two English-language articles I can find on the subject.

All out for May Day!


Irontruth wrote:
Trump's proposed budget eliminates the Appalachian Regional Commission, a federal agency responsible for promoting economic growth in the coal country region. It invests in small businesses, trains workers, and improves infrastructure in the region (internet/roads/water). The commission focuses its resources on the most economically distressed communities of the region.

Having spent 3 years living in the Appalachian coal country and working in many of those disadvantaged communities, I can attest that there was zero visible investment in infrastructure, roads, trains. Federal or otherwise. If this supposed commission had a budget, I can't guess what it was being used for.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Trump's proposed budget eliminates the Appalachian Regional Commission, a federal agency responsible for promoting economic growth in the coal country region. It invests in small businesses, trains workers, and improves infrastructure in the region (internet/roads/water). The commission focuses its resources on the most economically distressed communities of the region.
Having spent 3 years living in the Appalachian coal country and working in many of those disadvantaged communities, I can attest that there was zero visible investment in infrastructure, roads, trains. Federal or otherwise. If this supposed commission had a budget, I can't guess what it was being used for.

That's a pretty big area. It looks like only 200 miles of highway were actively under construction at the end of FY 2016.

The latest evaluation report [PDF] would have more details of where money went, but it looks like water and wastewater projects were the focus of investments.

What counties have you worked in? You could poke around to see what projects might be active near you.

Liberty's Edge

MMCJawa wrote:
The budget is likely dead on arrival, although I am still not exactly hopeful things like the EPA or state department are going to skirt through without massive cuts

Unless the GOP decides to ditch the filibuster entirely (or pull some other shenanigans), the Democrats should be able to block anything truly awful in the Senate.

Think of it this way, we're now 10% through the term of the 115th congress... and they haven't managed to wreck the country yet. So, we just need to repeat that nine more times and we will have a chance to vote in a better bunch.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Trump's proposed budget eliminates the Appalachian Regional Commission, a federal agency responsible for promoting economic growth in the coal country region. It invests in small businesses, trains workers, and improves infrastructure in the region (internet/roads/water). The commission focuses its resources on the most economically distressed communities of the region.
Having spent 3 years living in the Appalachian coal country and working in many of those disadvantaged communities, I can attest that there was zero visible investment in infrastructure, roads, trains. Federal or otherwise. If this supposed commission had a budget, I can't guess what it was being used for.

Their budget is pretty small (considering), it was only $90 million in FY2015 and this is supposed to cover the entire region from Mississippi to New York. In FY2014 they had a budget of $60 million and managed to help create 20,000 jobs, train 24,000 students for jobs and provide water and sewer services to 24,000 homes. Seems like a drop in the bucket, but not nothing either. Not sure how good the efficiency on all that is either.

Cutting it, without a replacement, isn't going to help though.


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CBDunkerson wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
The budget is likely dead on arrival, although I am still not exactly hopeful things like the EPA or state department are going to skirt through without massive cuts

Unless the GOP decides to ditch the filibuster entirely (or pull some other shenanigans), the Democrats should be able to block anything truly awful in the Senate.

Think of it this way, we're now 10% through the term of the 115th congress... and they haven't managed to wreck the country yet. So, we just need to repeat that nine more times and we will have a chance to vote in a better bunch.

The first shennanigan is passing trumpcare as a budget bill, which requires a simple majority.

Also, they need to set up before they can begin the destruction. The actual amount of time that's passed is a bad way of judging what's coming so far. Its like saying someone's gone into the next room, gotten a baseball bat and taken a few warm ups, and my head doesn't hurt yet we must be fine


Irontruth wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Trump's proposed budget eliminates the Appalachian Regional Commission, a federal agency responsible for promoting economic growth in the coal country region. It invests in small businesses, trains workers, and improves infrastructure in the region (internet/roads/water). The commission focuses its resources on the most economically distressed communities of the region.
Having spent 3 years living in the Appalachian coal country and working in many of those disadvantaged communities, I can attest that there was zero visible investment in infrastructure, roads, trains. Federal or otherwise. If this supposed commission had a budget, I can't guess what it was being used for.

Their budget is pretty small (considering), it was only $90 million in FY2015 and this is supposed to cover the entire region from Mississippi to New York. In FY2014 they had a budget of $60 million and managed to help create 20,000 jobs, train 24,000 students for jobs and provide water and sewer services to 24,000 homes. Seems like a drop in the bucket, but not nothing either. Not sure how good the efficiency on all that is either.

Cutting it, without a replacement, isn't going to help though.

Yeah but how is any of that helping Kirth?


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It won't, unless a new plan redistricts Texas into Appalachia.


KingOfAnything wrote:
That's a pretty big area. It looks like only 200 miles of highway were actively under construction at the end of FY 2016.

I was there 2012-2015. During that time, I was on the road a lot (see below); I saw plenty of road mileage with cones and tape up, but no actual work being done.Of course, if, as you allude, most of the ARC's focus was "training students" and hooking up water, that would certainly explain the lack of visual work on roads and rails.

KingOfAnything wrote:
What counties have you worked in? You could poke around to see what projects might [have been] active near you.

Beaver County PA down through Wetzel County WV.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
It won't, unless a new plan redistricts Texas into Appalachia.

Glad to be back! First day back in TX, the beltway was under repair -- I was thrilled, rather than annoyed, to see roads under construction and improvement! Now, if they would only get their act together and invest in an elevated rail system or some other reasonable form of public mass transit...


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Knight who says Meh wrote:
Yeah but how is any of that helping Kirth?

That's exactly where the modern Democratic Party keeps falling down.

Dems: "We're helping the working class!"
Local People: "How, exactly? None of us are seeing it."
Dems: "Well, you're all bad people anyway, so we don't need to talk to you except by making snide remarks."

Trump: "I'll Make America Great Again (TM)!"
Local Pepple: "How, exactly? You people never do."
Trump: "No earthly idea! I've never been able to fix anything, and run all my companies into the ground! But I'm listening to you, and I understand your concerns."


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:
Yeah but how is any of that helping Kirth?

That's exactly where the modern Democratic Party keeps falling down.

Dems: "We're helping the working class!"
Local People: "How, exactly? None of us are seeing it."
Dems: "Well, you're all bad people anyway, so we don't need to talk to you except by making snide remarks."

Trump: "I'll Make America Great Again (TM)!"
Local Pepple: "How, exactly? You people never do."
Trump: "No earthly idea! I've never been able to fix anything, and run all my companies into the ground! But I'm listening to you, and I understand your concerns."

I can't decide whether to favorite this or cry; guess I'll do both.

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:
Yeah but how is any of that helping Kirth?

That's exactly where the modern Democratic Party keeps falling down.

Dems: "We're helping the working class!"
Local People: "How, exactly? None of us are seeing it."
Dems: "Well, you're all bad people anyway, so we don't need to talk to you except by making snide remarks."

Trump: "I'll Make America Great Again (TM)!"
Local Pepple: "How, exactly? You people never do."
Trump: "No earthly idea! I've never been able to fix anything, and run all my companies into the ground! But I'm listening to you, and I understand your concerns."

Im curious what all these folks who felt like Trump "got it" are feeling now.

Media "So President Trump the new GOP plan for Obamacare replacement hurts middle and lower class America"
Trump: "That's right and gives a big tax break to the wealthiest."
Media: "and you are in support of this?
Trump: "Yeap, proud of it."


Pan wrote:
I'm curious what all these folks who felt like Trump "got it" are feeling now.

He did "get it" -- he just didn't give a damn, and had absolutely no intention of actually helping them (quite the contrary, in fact). But at least he knew where they were coming from, and he used that to win the election.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
Knight who says Meh wrote:
Yeah but how is any of that helping Kirth?

That's exactly where the modern Democratic Party keeps falling down.

Dems: "We're helping the working class!"
Local People: "How, exactly? None of us are seeing it."
Dems:

Dems: We can't help you if you keep voting republican.

Look, I'm sorry obamacare turned out to be the 1990 republican plan. We were pushing for something better, we couldn't get it. But have you noticed that none of the rivers are on fire lately? Thank you EPA. Have you seen bald eagles making a come back? In places they haven't been since before your grandfather was a kid? Have you noticed that you retire at 65 instead of dropping dead on the floor? Overtime pay? the 40 hour work week?

The only thing we've been able to do for over a generation is slow the republicans down because we haven't really been in power. Is the NSA running a satalite dish out of your colon? No? You're welcome. Any of your kids get shot in a new war? No. You're welcome.


I stated above that I wasn't really a science guy, but this article just blew away my go-to consolation: it'll all end one day.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

Scene from Annie Hall


BigNorseWolf wrote:
But have you noticed that none of the rivers are on fire lately? Thank you EPA.

1972 Clean Water Act, signed into law by Richard Nixon. You'll remember he had an (R) after his name, but was pretty far left of Clinton and Obama on a number of issues.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Is the NSA running a satalite dish out of your colon? No? You're welcome. Any of your kids get shot in a new war? No. You're welcome.

If you're claiming that Obama did not increase NSA surveillance of American citizens, and did not continue our unending foreign warfare, I want tickets to that alternative universe.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
But have you noticed that none of the rivers are on fire lately? Thank you EPA.
Clean Water Act, signed into law by Richard Nixon. He had an (R) after his name, but was pretty far of Clinton and Obama on a number of issues.

He also had a democratic senate force it on him, tried to get rid of it when it started doing it's job, and its been kept in place by the democrats ever since with republicans trying to de legitimize or defund it.

But that was back when the right compromised. They've learned since then....


Kirth Gersen wrote:
If you're claiming that Obama did not increase NSA surveillance of American citizens

he did not. His justice department didn't fight a large number of safeguards the courts put in place to keep it to a dull roar.

Quote:
and did not continue our unending foreign warfare, I want tickets to that alternative universe.

new. Wars. Or have you not noticed that every time we elect a republican we start a new war for the next democrat to clean up?

If you want no foreign warfare you have to keep electing the party of less foreign warfare and hope they get better, not the party of more foreign warfare and hope they kill everyone.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
new. Wars. Or have you not noticed that every time we elect a republican we start a new war for the next democrat to clean up?

I was under the impression we started bombing Yemen, for example, in 2015.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
But have you noticed that none of the rivers are on fire lately? Thank you EPA.

1972 Clean Water Act, signed into law by Richard Nixon. You'll remember he had an (R) after his name, but was pretty far left of Clinton and Obama on a number of issues.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Is the NSA running a satalite dish out of your colon? No? You're welcome. Any of your kids get shot in a new war? No. You're welcome.
If you're claiming that Obama did not increase NSA surveillance of American citizens, and did not continue our unending foreign warfare, I want tickets to that alternative universe.

I'm not saying either of those things didn't happen, I just don't think there was one moment where Obama decided to sign those particular executive orders because he thought it was a really great idea, if you see what I mean.

Oops, ninja'd by BNW while I was composing my post. (And going to the bathroom on the way to fetching another beer, but let's not get too personal, shall we?)


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
It won't, unless a new plan redistricts Texas into Appalachia.
Glad to be back! First day back in TX, the beltway was under repair -- I was thrilled, rather than annoyed, to see roads under construction and improvement! Now, if they would only get their act together and invest in an elevated rail system or some other reasonable form of public mass transit...

Thrilled unless you're referring to I-35, which will still be under construction long after we're all dead.


US conflicts/wars of past 100 years

C/W initiated with a Republican president in office:
Gulf War, War on Terror
Total U.S. troop casualties- 4,976 as of August 2010

C/W initiated with a Democratic president in office:
WW1 WW2 Korea Vietnam
Total U.S. troop casualties- 636,438


Kirth Gersen wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
new. Wars. Or have you not noticed that every time we elect a republican we start a new war for the next democrat to clean up?
I was under the impression we started bombing Yemen, for example, in 2015.

Personally I do distinguish between relatively minor operations, especially in areas already involved in civil war, and full scale invasions that destabilize entire regions for no particular reason. I can oppose both, while still recognizing the difference in both scale and kind.

As BNW said "the party of less foreign warfare", not "the pacifist party".

Obama did not start the war in Yemen, he intervened in an existing war. Which I believe is the pattern with all the military actions Obama has taken. OTOH, we started the war in Iraq.


The Darkside wrote:

US conflicts/wars of past 100 years

C/W initiated with a Republican president in office:
Gulf War, War on Terror
Total U.S. troop casualties- 4,976 as of August 2010

C/W initiated with a Democratic president in office:
WW1 WW2 Korea Vietnam
Total U.S. troop casualties- 636,438

The U.S. would most likely have entered WWII regardless of the administration at the time. Subtracting it out still leaves a vast disparity and makes your point stronger, IMHO.


thejeff wrote:
Obama did not start the war in Yemen, he intervened in an existing war. Which I believe is the pattern with all the military actions Obama has taken. OTOH, we started the war in Iraq.

One could argue that Bush Sr. didn't start Desert Storm, but merely intervened in an existing war, and that Dubya's invasion was a continuation of that conflict. I personally wouldn't buy that argument at all (well, at least not the second half of it), but one could make that argument.

One could also argue that the Afghanistan war was started by the Taliban, by sheltering Bin Laden. Most of the world, at the time, was willing to accept that interpretation. The continuation of that war is exactly what most people are now condemning.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Obama did not start the war in Yemen, he intervened in an existing war. Which I believe is the pattern with all the military actions Obama has taken. OTOH, we started the war in Iraq.

One could argue that Bush Sr. didn't start Desert Storm, but merely intervened in an existing war, and that Dubya's invasion was a continuation of that conflict. I personally wouldn't buy that argument at all (well, at least not the second half of it), but one could make that argument.

One could also argue that the Afghanistan war was started by the Taliban, by sheltering Bin Laden. Most of the world, at the time, was willing to accept that interpretation. The continuation of that war is exactly what most people are now condemning.

Well, and the expansion into Iraq, but yeah.

At this point I'm much less worried about which party has started more wars while their President was in office (look, whatever, that grammatical construction is rock solid) than about how President Trump will deal with the North Korea Nuclear Warhead Delivery System issue. I really, really think Trump's term in office is going to do more harm than good.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
new. Wars. Or have you not noticed that every time we elect a republican we start a new war for the next democrat to clean up?
I was under the impression we started bombing Yemen, for example, in 2015.

This simplistic, deliberately missing the point argumentation is why democrats can't get anywhere. Because reality is complicated and democrats are sadly our one remaining reality based party but people don't bother with reality in politics.

Yes. We intervened in Yemen. From the air and a few special forces. To the total loss of somewhere between 1 and a few dozen american lives and a few billion dollars. That is not the same as the war in iraq which costs at LEAST 2 trillion dollars, 4,500 american lives, and at LEAST 100,000 civilian casualties.

And yet those things are somehow equally as horrible because they are both "Wars"

Even when it's specifically pointed out that there is no good option, just a better one, the argument is that they're the same. Are you kidding me? There is a vast difference here.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kirth Gersen wrote:
The Darkside wrote:

US conflicts/wars of past 100 years

C/W initiated with a Republican president in office:
Gulf War, War on Terror
Total U.S. troop casualties- 4,976 as of August 2010

C/W initiated with a Democratic president in office:
WW1 WW2 Korea Vietnam
Total U.S. troop casualties- 636,438

The U.S. would most likely have entered WWII regardless of the administration at the time. Subtracting it out still leaves a vast disparity and makes your point stronger, IMHO.

Or, since we're picking arbitrary time periods, you could look at the last 50 years:

C/W initiated with a Republican president in office:
Gulf War, War on Terror
Total U.S. troop casualties- 4,976 as of August 2010

C/W initiated with a Democratic president in office:
None

(Using your numbers/examples and leaving out numerous smaller conflicts we've been involved in under either side.)

That you had to reach back as far as Vietnam, much less the World Wars suggests something. Little about that time period speaks to how the parties behave today. It could easily suggest that the Democrats learned their lesson from Vietnam especially.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
new. Wars. Or have you not noticed that every time we elect a republican we start a new war for the next democrat to clean up?
I was under the impression we started bombing Yemen, for example, in 2015.

This simplistic, deliberately missing the point argumentation is why democrats can't get anywhere. Because reality is complicated and democrats are sadly our one remaining reality based party but people don't bother with reality in politics.

Yes. We intervened in Yemen. From the air and a few special forces. To the total loss of somewhere between 1 and a few dozen american lives and a few billion dollars. That is not the same as the war in iraq which costs at LEAST 2 trillion dollars, 4,500 american lives, and at LEAST 100,000 civilian casualties.

And yet those things are somehow equally as horrible because they are both "Wars"

Even when it's specifically pointed out that there is no good option, just a better one, the argument is that they're the same. Are you kidding me? There is a vast difference here.

And not only were the direct costs of the invasion of Iraq much higher - in gold and blood, but that conflict destablized the whole region and led directly to Daesh and the Syrian and other conflicts going on today.

But Obama crossed the line and anything on the other side of it is just as bad.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Obama did not start the war in Yemen, he intervened in an existing war. Which I believe is the pattern with all the military actions Obama has taken. OTOH, we started the war in Iraq.

One could argue that Bush Sr. didn't start Desert Storm, but merely intervened in an existing war, and that Dubya's invasion was a continuation of that conflict. I personally wouldn't buy that argument at all (well, at least not the second half of it), but one could make that argument.

One could also argue that the Afghanistan war was started by the Taliban, by sheltering Bin Laden. Most of the world, at the time, was willing to accept that interpretation. The continuation of that war is exactly what most people are now condemning.

Legally, perhaps. In practical terms, Iraq was a stable, if oppressive, country not in a shooting war or dealing with open internal conflict on any significant scale. People weren't being regularly bombed or gunned down when we decided to invade. Even the Kurdish situation was fairly stable.

And there was no reason. The reasons given were lies.

Afghanistan was a different story, I'll admit. In addition to your argument, Afghanistan was actually still in the middle of a conflict between the Taliban and the Northern Alliance. Most of the initial ouster of the Taliban was actually done by them, with our support. So I'd actually give Bush something of a pass on that one, on similar grounds to our other more recent involvements. It was justifiable, though I opposed at the time and still.

It was Iraq that was beyond the pale.


thejeff wrote:
It was Iraq that was beyond the pale.

Yes, we agree on that. Too bad more people -- in both parties -- didn't vote against it. (Yes, I know that Republicans were overwhelmingly in favor, whereas a small handful of Democrats defied the rest of their party in voting "no," but still not exactly what you'd call a clear sign of reluctance.)

Remember, no one is saying the Dems need to be perfect. Everyone here agrees the Republicans, overall, are worse, so please stop with the "just as bad" thing, because no one is saying that except defenders of the status quo, in an effort to misrepresent the people who would like to see a change in the Democrats' priorities. What some of us are saying is that "we're only 90% as bad as the Republicans!" is no longer firing up the independents and undecideds and 3rd party kooks and everyone else you need to actually retake congress or, eventually, the White House.


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The Democratic party will be just fine.

It's the country as a whole that I'm worried about if we collectively swallow the line that cutting food aid is "compassionate." What a crock of s+*~.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
1972 Clean Water Act, signed into law by Richard Nixon. You'll remember he had an (R) after his name, but was pretty far left of Clinton and Obama on a number of issues.

This isn't actually true. Nixon was president at the time, but he actually vetoed the bill. The Senate and House then overrode his veto, but he never signed it.

Sovereign Court

Hi from the other side of the pond

Seems we both have political disasters now, You with your election result, us with the devisive Brexit vote.

I'm one of our Lib Dem Party, (when I'm not playing PFS)! But the hatred I got on the web for voting 'Remain' was terrible. Put my blood pressure through the roof and I suffered a stroke on Jan 3rd. Still haven't recovered yet. So I know a bit how politics cab be devisive.

What's this about blaming GCHQ for spying on your election? We don't do things like that over here. Opinion over here is that an ex TV Personality is stroking his ego again. No facts, just innuendo.

His view that millions of illegal voters voted Democratic because he lost the popular vote is astonishing.

My condolences on the vote. I hope you get a more moderate centrist government next time, whichever party wins. Meantime we have 2 years of Brexit hell, plus a chance of Scotland breaking away from the Union after 300 years. (Like California breaking from USA).

Thanks for the chat
Paul H
(Typed with left hand since the right one don't work)


PaulH wrote:


(Typed with left hand since the right one don't work)

At one point I was able to buy a left-hand keyboard. It only used the left hand keys and had a little button to switch to the right hand config. You could ptress that button and get the right hand version of the key (middle finger handled f/g and the button made j/h available, for example)

IF you are a touch typist you might find it useful to get one of those. It took a while to get used to, but it was better than dictation. You might also try switching to voice. The dictation program I used was pretty useful.


PaulH wrote:

Hi from the other side of the pond

Seems we both have political disasters now, You with your election result, us with the devisive Brexit vote.

I'm one of our Lib Dem Party, (when I'm not playing PFS)! But the hatred I got on the web for voting 'Remain' was terrible. Put my blood pressure through the roof and I suffered a stroke on Jan 3rd. Still haven't recovered yet. So I know a bit how politics cab be devisive.

What's this about blaming GCHQ for spying on your election? We don't do things like that over here. Opinion over here is that an ex TV Personality is stroking his ego again. No facts, just innuendo.

His view that millions of illegal voters voted Democratic because he lost the popular vote is astonishing.

My condolences on the vote. I hope you get a more moderate centrist government next time, whichever party wins. Meantime we have 2 years of Brexit hell, plus a chance of Scotland breaking away from the Union after 300 years. (Like California breaking from USA).

Thanks for the chat
Paul H
(Typed with left hand since the right one don't work)

That's pretty much the opinion over here as well. Among the sane anyway.

Quote:
"We said nothing. All we did was quote a certain very talented legal mind who was the one responsible for saying that on television. I didn't make an opinion on it," Trump said.

Remember next time he says something dumb, just check the cable news shows and see where he got it from. All the speculation about how the President has sources and access so he must know something not public? Bah. He doesn't pay any attention to those briefings. It's the latest right wing media conspiracy theory he's picked up on, that's all.

That crazy relative who's just been getting worse since he started watching nothing but Fox News and listening to Limbaugh? That's our president.


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bugleyman wrote:

The Democratic party will be just fine.

It's the country as a whole that I'm worried about if we collectively swallow the line that cutting food aid is "compassionate." What a crock of s@@+.

I could not agree more. If words are allowed to mean their opposite, then it's more than fact based government and credibility that has been lost.


Scythia wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

The Democratic party will be just fine.

It's the country as a whole that I'm worried about if we collectively swallow the line that cutting food aid is "compassionate." What a crock of s@@+.

I could not agree more. If words are allowed to mean their opposite, then it's more than fact based government and credibility that has been lost.

I wonder how well they'll do with a splintered constituency, because thats what they have now


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Ryan Freire wrote:
Scythia wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

The Democratic party will be just fine.

It's the country as a whole that I'm worried about if we collectively swallow the line that cutting food aid is "compassionate." What a crock of s@@+.

I could not agree more. If words are allowed to mean their opposite, then it's more than fact based government and credibility that has been lost.
I wonder how well they'll do with a splintered constituency, because thats what they have now

Did you accidentally link a different article than you intended? The one you linked not only doesn't talk about a fractured constituency, but it's also from before the election...

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