Can a creature have 2 types?


Rules Questions


I'm pretty sure the answer is no (short of using a template maybe), but let's say I wish to create a creature that has the characteristic of 2 types (and not a subtype). Say Undead and plant or Fey and Dragon. How could I go about it?

1) Do I choose the dominant one and add elements of the second one?
2) Do I choose one and add the second one as a subtype?
3) Do I choose one and add a line in the description/special quality that state that they also count as X Type for Purpose of Spell and Feat?


Generally, option 1.

Even with templates, "the creature's type changes to" something else. Normally the "(augmented)" subtype is added as well.


Types and Subtypes are different. Types are the general denomination (Dragon, Outsider, and so on). Subtypes are the specific denominations, usually associated with Outsiders (such as Native or Extraplanar) or Humanoids (such as Human or Orc).

You'd go with the third one. That's the case for things like Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, who count as both Human and Orc for effects that rely on it.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Rules wrote:
Each creature has one type, which broadly defines its abilities. Some creatures also have one or more subtypes. A creature cannot violate the rules of its subtype without a special ability or quality to explain the difference—templates can often change a creature's type drastically.

Why don't you want a sub-type ?

1) If you do this you are really creating a new type. If you're the GM, you can do that.

2) This is probably the best approach, but I don't know what your purpose is, so I could be wrong.

3) This would work too, but you'll have to decide if the creature always counts as both, or only counts for particular purposes.


Orfamay Quest wrote:

Generally, option 1.

Even with templates, "the creature's type changes to" something else. Normally the "(augmented)" subtype is added as well.

Which put me in this situation as the "The creature type Change to" kind of negate my idea.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
You'd go with the third one. That's the case for things like Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, who count as both Human and Orc for effects that rely on it.

That what I had in mind when I was thinking of option #3.

SlimGauge wrote:

Why don't you want a sub-type ?

1) If you do this you are really creating a new type. If you're the GM, you can do that.

2) This is probably the best approach, but I don't know what your purpose is, so I could be wrong.

3) This would work too, but you'll have to decide if the creature always counts as both, or only counts for particular purposes.

Part of the problem, is that only 1 subtype kind of fit 9but is not 100% what I'm looking for either

In the case of option #3, it would more then likely be a case of "always count" for good or bad.

But to help better understand my idea. I'm looking in building a new creature/PC race that is essentially a Plant-like Fey (it basically looks like a small humanoid berrybush).

so my options (that I can see at the moment) would be:
1a) Create it as a Fey and give it the plant Type immunities (to mind control, paralysis, etc.), as well as adding the ability to speak to plants and maybe add Pass without trace.
1b) Create it as a Fey and give it the Leshy subtype. It's the closest I can get so far, but it does give me abilities that I don't particularly see as fitting well with the concept...and losing most of the Plant type core immunities which would make a bit more sense.
2) Create it as a Plant and give it some of the Fey elements (such as the DR5/Iron and add the "Count as" disclaimer.


Andre Roy wrote:

so my options (that I can see at the moment) would be:

1a) Create it as a Fey and give it the plant Type immunities (to mind control, paralysis, etc.), as well as adding the ability to speak to plants and maybe add Pass without trace.

What's wrong with this? It's a Fey (augmented) with a lot of plant traits.


3 mostly. Look on Inevitables: they are Outsiders with inevitable subtype and constructed special quality that grant them construct-like traits (including rule stating that they are treated as Outsiders and Constructs).

Determining which exact type to use is a complex matter - 3.0 or 3.5 had some rules but there are others factors to be included too.

When determining the base type take into account that each type sets the BAB, HD, Saves, skill points, and racial skills as well as the primary interaction with certain spells and effects. In some cases that should be enough to pick the type for the creature (e.g. faerie dragon, Dragon is superior to Fey), in others not so much (Dragon might be superior to Undead, but becoming undead overwrites the living nature of the base creature).

Quote:

But to help better understand my idea. I'm looking in building a new creature/PC race that is essentially a Plant-like Fey (it basically looks like a small humanoid berrybush).

so my options (that I can see at the moment) would be:
1a) Create it as a Fey and give it the plant Type immunities (to mind control, paralysis, etc.), as well as adding the ability to speak to plants and maybe add Pass without trace.
1b) Create it as a Fey and give it the Leshy subtype. It's the closest I can get so far, but it does give me abilities that I don't particularly see as fitting well with the concept...and losing most of the Plant type core immunities which would make a bit more sense.
2) Create it as a Plant and give it some of the Fey elements (such as the DR5/Iron and add the "Count as" disclaimer.

Try to think what part of the creature is the more important. Is that a plant animated by the energies of the First World/fey spirit?

Is that a fey that looks like and have some traits of a plant?

One thing: unless the creature was changed into another type then (augmented) subtype is not particularly fitting.

From the short initial description I'd go with Fey and give it Plant-like quality, berry picking cherry picking traits of plants, or substitute similar abilities (bonus to saving throws against poison to which plants are completely immune) in the similar way the half-construct subtype from Advanced Race Guide works.


First, Thank you very much for your input (as well as SlimGauge), it really helps me get a more clearer idea.

Orfamay Quest wrote:
Andre Roy wrote:

so my options (that I can see at the moment) would be:

1a) Create it as a Fey and give it the plant Type immunities (to mind control, paralysis, etc.), as well as adding the ability to speak to plants and maybe add Pass without trace.
What's wrong with this? It's a Fey (augmented) with a lot of plant traits.

There's nothing wrong really and I haven't thought about the Fey (Augmented Plant)...how did I missed that one?

Drejk wrote:

[...]

Try to think what part of the creature is the more important. Is that a plant animated by the energies of the First World/fey spirit?

Is that a fey that looks like and have some traits of a plant?

One thing: unless the creature was changed into another type then (augmented) subtype is not particularly fitting.

From the short initial description I'd go with Fey and give it Plant-like quality, berry picking cherry picking traits of plants, or substitute similar abilities (bonus to saving throws against poison to which plants are completely immune) in the similar way the half-construct subtype from Advanced Race Guide works.

Although that plant aspect is quite important to the concept, I see it as more than a Leshy (which seems to fit the Fey/First World Energy infused Plant) and being a true (if somewhat weak/lowly) Fey.

And bonus to Saves in elements that Plants would be immune would be a sweet compromise I like it.


Thanks to your feedback, I've worked on this creature (Both the Bestiary entry and the "as Character" entry) in the last couple days.

I've decided to give it the Fey(Augmented Plant) Type. They are fey, but the plant aspect is central to the concept. But unlike plant, they still need to sleep and have resistance rather then full blow immunitiy like the Plant Type to sleep, poison, paralysis and mind affecting effect.

And using the APG, it ended up being at 15 RP...so technically on par with Aasimar...which is not too too bad as it put them midranged for Advanced Race. Which are good in their niche, and pretty average outside of it.


Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate trait count as both Outsider (Native) and Humanoid (Human).


It gets even better, an Undine can be Humanoid(human,aquatic), Outsider(native,aquatic) all at the same time


GeneMemeScene wrote:
Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate trait count as both Outsider (Native) and Humanoid (Human).

And this is why option 3 is your best bet. Pick the dominant type, add the Augmented subtype, and add a special quality that says the creature also counts as the second type for the purposes of all spells and abilities that target specific types or subtypes.

Unless you are mixing two things that were actually the same type and different subtypes. Then you just give it both subtypes and move on.

Scarab Sages

Andre Roy wrote:
And using the APG, it ended up being at 15 RP...so technically on par with Aasimar...which is not too too bad as it put them midranged for Advanced Race. Which are good in their niche, and pretty average outside of it.

If you are the GM, it doesn't matter, but if this is a player question, understand that the Augmented subtype doesn't allow augmented plants within the rules of the Advanced Race Guide's RP system.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Andre Roy wrote:
And using the APG, it ended up being at 15 RP...so technically on par with Aasimar...which is not too too bad as it put them midranged for Advanced Race. Which are good in their niche, and pretty average outside of it.
If you are the GM, it doesn't matter, but if this is a player question, understand that the Augmented subtype doesn't allow augmented plants within the rules of the Advanced Race Guide's RP system.

Yeah, it's from a GM/writer point not as a player as it is an addition to a bestiary entry.

Obviously, if it gets published, a player might want to use it but it would be up to the GM to allow or veto it.


a creature can have 2 types scion of humanity aasimar is just one example its a outsider (naitive) and a humanoid (human) now most templates change creature types so lets say that aasimar takes a template that changes them to undead they are now undead and no longer have the outsider or humanoid types


This is usually a job for a custom subtype or quality.


GeneMemeScene wrote:
Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate trait count as both Outsider (Native) and Humanoid (Human).

They're still just one type... Outsider, with the Native subtype, and some funky mechanics which allow them to be treated as another type, but they don't become that type.

The Exchange

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Types and Subtypes are different. Types are the general denomination (Dragon, Outsider, and so on). Subtypes are the specific denominations, usually associated with Outsiders (such as Native or Extraplanar) or Humanoids (such as Human or Orc).

You'd go with the third one. That's the case for things like Half-Elves and Half-Orcs, who count as both Human and Orc for effects that rely on it.

along the same lines most of the Native Outsider races have alternate traits along the lines of 'Mostly Human' That makes them Both Native Outsiders and Humanoid for the purposes of spells that will effect either.

The Exchange

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
GeneMemeScene wrote:
Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate trait count as both Outsider (Native) and Humanoid (Human).
They're still just one type... Outsider, with the Native subtype, and some funky mechanics which allow them to be treated as another type, but they don't become that type.

but the question was having the characteristics of both types, this would qualify as they have humanoid characteristics when otherwise they would not.


bishop083 wrote:

And this is why option 3 is your best bet. Pick the dominant type, add the Augmented subtype, and add a special quality that says the creature also counts as the second type for the purposes of all spells and abilities that target specific types or subtypes.

That's the route I took so, basically as it stand now, I have:

Fey Augmented Plants [Redacted] are Feys with the Augmented Plant subtype.
...
Bleed Sap: [Redacted] count as both Feys and Plants for any effect related to or targeting Type.

Hopefully it's specific enough to understand that, basically, any Spell, poison/diseases and Ability that target both types will do so. And that any feats, traits, ability/spells that are only available to/specifically for those two types are on the table so to speak.

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