Gnomish Switch Scythe


Pathfinder Society

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

I have seen mentions of the Gnomish Switch Scythe and even had one player purchase one, however, I can find no stats, price, or anything, other than a short blurb stating that is has a hideable folding blade. (Gnomes of Golarion). There are no stats in the book, but yet ever the Pathfinder Society rules it allowable. Despite this, I find myself very tempted to ban it among my groups, simply because they can't purchase something that don't have a price for (and if it's treated the same as a normal scythe, why would anyone ever buy a normal scythe?). By the rules of the society, you must supply statistics, but yet the PRD, Gnomes of Golarian, and even the PFSRD (which isn't society legal anyway) have nothing.

Any thoughts or suggestions on where I might find the errata or stats on the item? It didn't make it into the Ultimate Equipment Guide either.


I vaguely remember there was a way to construct one, maybe hero labs? I'm sure I saw stats for it.

Spoiler:
Two and a half to three years ago my wife got the gnomes book and for while she pitched gnome chacthers over and over for our games. Many, many, many gnome characters

Sorry I don't have any fresher memories. (And I may have surpressed a few, ... so many gnomes ...)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

It's on page 23. There's even a picture of it.

The section on "Gnome Weapons and Armor" wrote:
Switchscythe: This scythe has a spring-loaded blade that folds down into the weapon’s handle. Opening the scythe blade is a swift action, and closing it again is a standard action. To the uninitiated, this weapon can pass for an oddly shaped staff (Bluff check DC 15). Sneaky gnomes sometimes disguise the apparatus with paper maché or a thin layer of clay painted to look like wood, increasing the Bluff DC to 20 (this disguise is ruined when the weapon is opened, but it may be reapplied).

It's an Exotic Gnome Weapon (every weapon in that book is), so anyone with Gnome Weapon Familiarity would treat it as a Martial Weapon. The description tells us it's a Scythe, so I'd use those stats (cost, damage, weight, etc).

I don't see anything abusive about it. What problems have you encountered?


It's missing from the chart on page 22, so there's no price.

-j

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Wait, if you take extra steps to disguise it, it becomes harder to pass off as a normal staff?

Gnomes.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Jason Wu wrote:
It's missing from the chart on page 22, so there's no price.

That's one way to look at it. I'd suggest not, but I can't stop you.

Campaign Leadership has repeatedly tried to shift the way we GM this Campaign of theirs away from the damaging practice of "RAW", and instead use our judgment as thinking human beings to confront ambiguously written text.

This is a great example. Let's work through it.

What do we know about this weapon? It's like a scythe, but with three key differences: 1) Instead of being Martial, it's Exotic, 2) you can disguise it as a less threatening weapon, and 3) it uses up a valuable Swift action to switch out.

There is no mention that it costs more than a regular scythe, does more damage, has reach, has a higher Crit or weighs more. So we leave those details the same.

With that in mind, ask yourself: "Is there anything wrong with this?" The weapon requires Exotic proficiency for two very minor benefits. Usually Exotic weapons have a higher damage die, a higher Crit multiplier, or something else that makes it more valuable in combat. It's a cost/benefit exchange.

Do you see any abuse, anything overpowered or disruptive, about this weapon that puts that cost/benefit exchange out of balance?

If not, then let the player have their fun with it. They purchased the book, let Paizo and them enjoy the money that was spent.

2/5 5/5

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My instinct would be to treat it as a scythe for all stat purposes (including price) but then add in the extra bit about how it can be disguised. (yeah, but "Bluff" mechanic doesn't really make sense--maybe the 15 or 20 is the Perception DC to notice it's not really a staff?)


I think the intent is that the base weapon 'rolls' a Bluff check of DC 15 (vs what, I don't know... the Perception of a viewer?), while the carefully-disguised version makes the viewer check vs 20.

That whole section has the scent of someone reinventing the wheel.

I would read and rule it like this:

The weapon has a capacity to look like a weird staff. In the possession of a non-gnome, too weird not to be examined more closely, but in the possession of a gnome, with their bell-toed shoes and spinner-wing hat... DC 15 (vs Perc) to see the (this turns into another weapon) capacity. If clay or other dressing up is applied, DC 20. If a person uses Sleight of Hand or an appropriate Craft check, the dressing up can use that check result as the DC. That would take as much time as it took to bake the giant loaf of pumpernickle which you hid the staff in (ask your GM).


Nefreet wrote:
Jason Wu wrote:
It's missing from the chart on page 22, so there's no price.
That's one way to look at it. I'd suggest not, but I can't stop you.

I would normally agree with you but in the same chapter the Gnomish Flickmace got a table entry but it is completely missing it's description.

Add to that there is a dev comment in the product page that content was inadvertantly left out during editing. They posted the missing Flickmace description but never got around to commenting on the Scythe.

-j

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Ooo! Can you link to the post about the Flickmace?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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I agree that having a Clarification regarding the Switchscythe would be ideal.

Until that time, I see the issue as no different than the ambiguously written Ice Tomb hex, which was also missing key information.

As a PFS GM, you have the power (and are encouraged to use it) to make a ruling and move on.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

4/5

Jhaeman wrote:
My instinct would be to treat it as a scythe for all stat purposes (including price) but then add in the extra bit about how it can be disguised. (yeah, but "Bluff" mechanic doesn't really make sense--maybe the 15 or 20 is the Perception DC to notice it's not really a staff?)

The switchscythe is making a bluff check and the result is 15, or 20 if you add the disguise. It is opposed by sense motive when observed.

Dark Archive 2/5

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Nefreet wrote:
Don't sweat the small stuff.

For instance, gnomes. =v)


Nefreet wrote:
Ooo! Can you link to the post about the Flickmace?

Here you go.

More or less, "Mace, but you can use a standard(?) action to add or remove Reach."

-j

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