Animate dead with desecrate and max worth of HD you can control question.

[LucasB]

Hey guys,

I'm a lvl 4 necromancer with the feat Undead mastery

Undead mastery.
Benefit: When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled.

So caster level 4 and with undead master raise my level by 4 (does it raise my caster level too up to 8?)

Do I now count as a Caster level 8 for the purpose of animating and Commanding undead?

When I cast Animate Dead it says...
"Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit."

So now that I'm considered caster level 8 and casting animate dead that brings me up to 16 HD. Meaning I can't animate more than 16 HD worth of undead?

If I cast this with desecrate is it 8 x 4? = 32 Hd?

My DM says that I can only animate 8 HD worth of undead? I don't get where he's coming from.

[Yogmoth]

He's wrong, you're right.

"Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit."

"Benefit: When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled."

(4 (real CL) + 4 (undead mastery)) x 2 x 2 (desecrate) = 32

That being said you can animate 32 HD worth of hit dice but you're still can't control more than 16 HD of undead. Undead mastery don't raise this number.

"No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit."

This feat is still useful if you want to create variant skeleton like bloody skeletons. They cost and count twice their HD to create but not to control.

The real limit of a necromancer is not the number of minions you can create in a cast but the number of minions you can control and the availability of corpse and onyx.

[Blymurkla]

Animate Dead wrote:

he undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.

I've seen it argued on these message boards that the HD you can control is often largely irrelevant, since you control all newly created creatures. Always, regardless of how many you are actually allowed to control. Only when you cast Animate Dead again is the number of HD you can controlled checked, and you are only forced to release undead from previous castings.

To bad I can't seem to find very I read this interpretation ...

[LucasB]

Yes There are 2 pools.
1 From the animate dead spell (32 MAX worth of HD that I can control).
2 from the command undead feat limited at 8 HD. However the spell command undead gives me unlimited HD to control and the Undead master doubles the amount of time it lasts for.

Yogmoth wrote:

He's wrong, you're right.

"Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit."

"Benefit: When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled."

(4 (real CL) + 4 (undead mastery)) x 2 x 2 (desecrate) = 32

That being said you can animate 32 HD worth of hit dice but you're still can't control more than 16 HD of undead. Undead mastery don't raise this number.

"No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit."

This feat is still useful if you want to create variant skeleton like bloody skeletons. They cost and count twice their HD to create but not to control.

The real limit of a necromancer is not the number of minions you can create in a cast but the number of minions you can control and the availability of corpse and onyx.