Traits With Skill Choices


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Let's take the trait Convincing Liar as an example. "You gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff or Intimidate checks and one of these skills (your choice) is a class skill for you."

Is it RAW somewhere, or just RAI, that the bonus and the class skill choice have to be the same? For example, could a character get a +1 bonus to Intimate and get Bluff as a class skill?


You choose. Either or. It's worded to allow two choices.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Convincing Liar is worded strangely for a trait. Most traits with that structure would have an "and" rather than an "or" in them. Alternatively, the trait might have said something like "Choose one of the following skills: Bluff or Intimidate. You gain a +1 trait bonus on that skill, and it is always a class skill for you." This trait is a little weird in having its first part contain an "or" with no explicit reference to any choice being made.


They do not have to be the same.


Quote:
Convincing Liar is worded strangely for a trait.

Only if you're assuming the intention was that the choice should be the same for both the +1 bonus and class skill. The wording is just fine if that is not the intention.

As written, you can make the choices independently.

Grand Lodge

Does anyone know of any other traits with this unusual wording?

Silver Crusade

Convincing Liar:

Source Faction Guide pg. 63
Category Basic (Social)
Requirement(s) Bellflower Network
You’ve spent your life perfecting the art of half-truths in order to accomplish what you need to. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff or Intimidate checks and one of these skills (your choice) is a class skill for you.

+1 trait bonus to one skills and either skill is treated as a class skill (your choice).

I Suggest doing a search at Archives of Nethys for "One of these skills". Be sure to click "traits" checkbox. There are lots and the list keeps growing.

If your just looking for one source to prove its not an exception, look at

River Navigator:
Source Pirates of the Inner Sea pg. 13
Category Region
Requirement(s) River Kingdom
You grew up in the River Kingdoms and are familiar with the many winding streams that cross the land. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Survival checks or Profession (sailor) checks dealing with lakes, rivers, and their immediate surroundings, and one of these skills becomes a class skill for you.

Grand Lodge

Hmmm, interesting to see that every trait that gives a bonus to Intimidate and one other skill uses "and" instead of "or."

Also, River Navigator, from Pirates of the Inner Sea, and Librarian, from the Pathfinder Society Guide V6.0, are the ONLY traits that make you choose the skill that gets a bonus instead of giving a bonus to both.

Thank you very much Captain!! I never use Archives of Nethys but will do so more in the future.

I think I'm going to house rule this to a bonus to both skills. I don't think it's a huge benefit and puts the trait more in line with all the other traits.

Silver Crusade

I think the reason that they did that is that the Faction Guide opens up some combos not accessible through the other sources, leaving the other trait categories open for the pickens. Its one of the perks for joining the Society (along with some unmentioned downsides). :)

But definitely in your game, GM =, its your call.

Glad you like the link. Its a must for when I'm building characters. It lets me know what other resources to buy.

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