Bored of character, but dm will not let me change any aspect of her.


Advice


So I've joined this group and been meeting up for about 1-2 months. And I was new and noobish to the game. So I made a character and while I've not completed any of her life goals...I'm bored.

Only 3rd level and a druid with the domain of fire. Had this awesome and simple but full back story for her and well, since joining the group I've noticed we always do what the cavalier or the rogue wants to do. I want to check this cave out or try and scout ahead but one of those two always pushed me aside (In character or ooc, sometimes both) and either does it for me or we do what they want. Also doesn't help the party is righteous and noble while my char is more neutral. Doing what she thinks is right for the group but mostly the help herself as well.

I asked the DM to alter my char or reroll entirely and was not allowed. Unless I take a 2 level hit. So the new char would be 1st level. Which seems harsh to me.

Am I overreacting? As said I'm a noob to role-play, and am shy and have a self image issue. I want to play and love the ability to see a magical bit dangerous world. But when I feel soo out of place...i sometimes struggle to force myself to turn up to sessions.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Your DM is being harsh.

I'm saying this as a DM who is on the tail end of running a 7 - 8 year long campaign, I had players at the beginning tell me that they weren't enjoying the character they were running for whatever reason, one was a gnome oracle, the other was playing a Tiefling Inquisitor of Abadar.

Both became NPC's in Korvosa as the PC's made new PC's. No level hits, no shenanigans. All I asked was that they find away to incorporate the new PC's into the group.

No muss no fuss.

The former PC's now NPC's are still allies of the present group. In fact the player with the Tiefling Inquisitor is now playing that PC again and the gnome Oracle was a big help and source of information to them in a recent and pretty deadly adventure.

I guess what I'm saying is if a player isnt having fun playing a character it really costs nothing to have them either tweak an existing one or create a new one that they will enjoy.

That is as long as the player doesn't get it in their head to abuse it and want a new character every few sessions. I pretty much stop the character tweaking and switching by 6th level. If you don't know what you want by then? Then the problem isnt the characters...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
ChocRage wrote:

So I've joined this group and been meeting up for about 1-2 months. And I was new and noobish to the game. So I made a character and while I've not completed any of her life goals...I'm bored.

Only 3rd level and a druid with the domain of fire. Had this awesome and simple but full back story for her and well, since joining the group I've noticed we always do what the cavalier or the rogue wants to do. I want to check this cave out or try and scout ahead but one of those two always pushed me aside (In character or ooc, sometimes both) and either does it for me or we do what they want. Also doesn't help the party is righteous and noble while my char is more neutral. Doing what she thinks is right for the group but mostly the help herself as well.

I asked the DM to alter my char or reroll entirely and was not allowed. Unless I take a 2 level hit. So the new char would be 1st level. Which seems harsh to me.

Am I overreacting? As said I'm a noob to role-play, and am shy and have a self image issue. I want to play and love the ability to see a magical bit dangerous world. But when I feel soo out of place...i sometimes struggle to force myself to turn up to sessions.

It also sounds like an interpersonal issue with the other players as well.

You might want to find a new group honestly if you guys cant find a way to play together as a group.

Personally I have no patience for that sort of thing and have been known to walk away from an incompatible group in a HEARTBEAT.


Changing your character will not change your party dynamic, where it is clear that your problem lies.

Are your ideas dismissed out of hand, or are they not Inkeeping with the party goals?
Have you talked to the other players at all? Perhaps one or more of them can help you with your goals if you talked to them about what you need. Extra points if you can do this in character.

Getting in the habit of dumping characters, especially if it looks like you are doing it when you don't get your way, is a bad thing, and won't help you up your game or win any popularity contests.


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The goal of the game is to have fun. If you aren't having fun, why play? Now, are these guys you are playing with personal friends, or are they just a casual group? If it's the latter, walk away and find another group. If the GM isn't letting you have fun, he's not doing his job. If they are friends, it gets more complicated. Things need to be talked over with friends; if they really are friends, they will listen.

If that doesn't work, your character will suddenly get a death wish. Keep doing recklessly stupid things until he gets killed, then you will have to make a new one. Won't that be a shame.


Gavmania is right. If you're not having fun and feel like you're being shoved aside, both in character and out, leave the game. I wouldn't put up with that behavior from a GM or my fellow players, and I certainly would never do that to them. Maybe I'm too nice a guy, but it's also due to the fact I've played with the same group about 30 years, give or take a few of the folks who've moved away, but the core group has been around about that long. If you lived in central Arkansas I'd invite you to one of our games and I guarantee you'd not be treated like that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Totally agree. If it isn't fun, and after a conversation or two with the folks in the game they do not wish to change, then it's best to go.

That said if you are still itching to play and cannot find in person groups...there are several that are online via virtual tabletop. Pathfinder Society Online is one though they are mainly organized play.
There are dozens of smaller groups on such sites like Roll20.

Good luck!


Maybe you can stay in this group if you change just one thing about your character -- the "N" at the top of the page. If you change to a "NG" alignment, will that end some conflict with the party? At that point, you see, you don't even have to ask the GM for permission to change alignment. You just start conceiving of your character differently and role-playing them differently. Eventually, your GM will notice, sure, and inform you you have changed alignments. But as long as you try to steer a middle-ground between law and individualism (chaos), you'll be fine on your class requirements.

It may be that if you become Righteous and Noble, too, they'll listen to you more. Well, maybe Righteous is too far to stretch. Good and Noble???

There is, of course, one other way to get to reroll a low-level character if you have a (I'll charitably assume less experienced) GM. Throw yourself into the teeth of death. Do it enough and this loss of a character will die, and you can do a new character who seems to be a better fit.

I hope this helps. Good luck!


This sounds like a bad group. When your GM isn't open to suggestion ( for a new player especially) and your fellow PCs won't let you do anything, it sucks the fun out of the game. Share your concerns with your GM out of game and if they're not open to change, turn in your notice and start looking for another group.

Being in a bad group is like being in an abusive marriage. It's best to get out now.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Yeah, tell the GM and/or group your concerns. Especially if you're new, they should be flexible and let you play the character you want to play. For example, if you try playing a fighter/wizard and aren't having fun, re-building your character as a magus might work out better for you. If you made a bard with all sorts of social skills, but it's a kick-in-the-door, hack-and-slash campaign, they should let you make a barbarian instead--if you want!

Also, PF is supposed to be a collaborative game. You're supposed to work as a team to attain your goals. They shouldn't always be shoving you aside. Next time they shove you aside, you go right back and shove them aside. Politely. But seriously, take turns leading the group. And I mean taking the lead on a project, mission, or goal, not bossing everyone else around.

Maybe work with the group, and have a rotating series of adventures. One week, have Druidquest. The next, Roguequest, the week after, Cavalierquest.

If the group isn't willing to be flexible and accommodating to your needs, you might need to find a new group. I know that can be hard, but it's better than being forced to participate in an activity that isn't any fun.


It's a group from a club. Only know one of them outside the game and only meet him once or twice (The rogue/alchemist). I noticed that our wizard of the group is having the same issues.

Meh, maybe I'll ask if she get get some bad new from home or something (Like a messenger bird from mother (Who is also a druid) saying that her dad is dying or something. So she leaves the group to see him and that way they don't have to deal with a playerless pc.

If I'd of known the group where like this, I'd of picked a Cleric, war priest, inquisitor or something like that. But, yeah leaving the group sounds like the best plan.


Death penalties are really dumb. Ok maybe not start with as many magic items but dropping you two levels - particularly at level 3 is crazy.

Is everyone else new too or just you, how often do you play and are they friends or did you meet them as part of a pickup game.

To be clear level penalties for new characters are pure DM fiat and a pretty egregious use of power. Have you asked the other players what they think?


Ninja' by OP. Sounds like you have nothing to lose. I'd stick at it for a bit longer. Consider changing your alignment. It does make more sense for rogues to scout out because typically splitting the party is a terrible idea. That said two more levels and you get wildshape which opens a lot of opportunities.


Well, the campaign stops at lv4, and no, I don't know the group well. I know the rouge is better, and his +15 to stealth checks is amazing. But my char leaves no trail, so I autopass any stealth checks for being followed. And I'm not allowed to change her alignment, cause it brakes the DM's story and makes more work for him to alter it to fit. I think he is a elite DM, and is use to groups of players with 5+ years exp each. But I'm a guy of influence. I really struggled to pick a char to start with without picking it cause of a gimmick. I'm unable to think up an entire story of my character and his/her goals at the drop of a hat...which all the other players can do on a whim. Honestly puts me off the game completely being so inept at the basics of character generation. I mean, I can build chars, do it all the time to then know how to do it. Bur the chars are soulless. I'm naturally a reserved person, rarely so emotion unless I speak up. So if I play a char like that...i know it's gonna be a boring char now. Cause I followed the advice of the DM and made her like me...personality wise.


I take back my advice - changing alignment won't make these people happy. Find a different game mate. There are plenty of games where a neutral fire Druid would be a perfectly reasonable character who wouldn't get trumped at every opportunity and not get cut off a level below his most interesting ability.

Not allowing you to change your mind because it creates work is pretty selfish - particularly for a new player. If it was your fifth character in the campaign maybe, but not your second. It sounds like punishing someone for something they didn't know was an issue. It's pretty unfair.

As for your ineptitude. I think you're being hard on yourself. It sounds like you lack a bit of confidence and to my mind, building confidence is one of the big benefits of tabletop RPGs. You had the confidence to hang with complete strangers and bring something you created to display in front of other people. That's not nothing - that's brave. Some writers can go for years before allowing anyone else to read anything they've created!

The best players aren't the ones who shout the loudest or dominate the roleplay, they're the ones that keep the game moving and increase the fun for everyone! You can be that guy, just maybe not with these people. Pathfinder is one of the most complicated multi-layered games I've played and it's not very forgiving of different power styles. A rogue with +15 to stealth at level 3 sounds pretty optimised to me, combine that with domineering players and you're on a road to miseryville.

You're better off finding a group of people who care more about the people than 'winning'. The DM sets the tone of the game and the DM sounds like a control freak... And that is coming from a guy who as a DM is a control freak.

Why not speak to the guy you get on with, convince another person or two to join you and play a side game. 2 players and a DM is enough for a lot of adventures particularly Adventure Paths. Our group started as a side game of people who had similar styles and its still going 15 years later, long after the original died a death. What's the worst that could happen?


As for character creation. Read books, pick characters you like and then model them in Pathfinder. There are a ton of people on these boards who if you tell them you want to play as close as you can for legolas for levels 1-4 they'll help you make him. Stats, feats and all.

Then your background is done and you'll have a character who can compete. I've played Snape, I've played Ragnar Lothbrok, Ive played Gotrek Gurnissom, I've played Gandalf - several times. My favourite character of all time was Dr Byron Orpheus - I even did the voice and called one of the other players Pumpkin. I gave them different names of course but they were pretty much there.

My next character will be the Witcher in 5th ed. he migh not have white hair but he will be the Witcher.

Steal ideas liberally until your own start to formulate.


ChocRage wrote:
I want to check this cave out or try and scout ahead but one of those two always pushed me aside (In character or ooc, sometimes both) and either does it for me or we do what they want.

Not kosher, not cool. You really should talk to these players and the DM about this - if this is how they do things with refusal of change, you're not really invited to their game (because you don't get to play), so why bother showing up?

Also, you really should be allowed to play the character you want and any DM should work with you to make any necessary changes WITHOUT penalizing you. It sucks to abandon one of the original party members all of a sudden, but it sucks even more to have a player who doesn't want to play - that's the ultimate receipt to a DM that they've failed.

All this gets worse because of you being a new player. They really should be able to cut you some slack and properly introduce you to the game, even if it means giving you privileges that the other players don't have.


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ChocRage wrote:
I think he is a elite DM, and is use to groups of players with 5+ years exp each.

Nope. Not as long as he refuses someone's fun. Elitist* maybe.


I agree that the group is having some issues that should be resolved with either a constructive talk or parting, and the GM is really harsh in imposing a -2 level penalty for a new character, in accountance of many things out and in game (a level 1 in a level 3 group is the first to fall, and the drag of the party).

On the matter of other players pushing aside, though, I have to bring an alternative point of view.
Of course I don't know if this applies to the group in question, but here's how it goes in mine:
In terms of rule-knowledge, I'm the expert of the group, then there's another player a bit behind, and then the others varying, but all much more behind (including GM). And then there's the latest addition to the party, who is totally new to Pathfinder and he's playing a Wizard. Suffice to say that he initially built a character over a total misunderstanding of ranged combat rules, and when I offered insight on that, we had to rebuild it from scratch.
Now, he always gets spell descriptions wrong, and his spellbook is in fact full of useless spells, which he uses even worse, and often I have to throw in a suggestion that feels like I'm playing his character for him, to avoid making him feel useless.
At the same time, he always brings out some ideas that look creative at first, but are terrible rule-wise, and actually they'd be terrible even if the game world was the real world. He's the kind of guy who'd organize a drilling from the surface straight to the underground lair of the Lich, so "we won't have to fight his minions".
Well, all this to say that, while I feel bad at always going "against" him and pushing him aside, his lack of rules-knowledge, coupled with his lust to always find creative ideas without considering how bad they really are, leaves me little choice. So, consider the event that the players in this group *might* find themselves in a similar position, and maybe they aren't just stealing the scene thoughtlessly (or maybe yes, as said, I can't know, of course).

Liberty's Edge

Rub-Eta wrote:
ChocRage wrote:
I want to check this cave out or try and scout ahead but one of those two always pushed me aside (In character or ooc, sometimes both) and either does it for me or we do what they want.

Not kosher, not cool. You really should talk to these players and the DM about this - if this is how they do things with refusal of change, you're not really invited to their game (because you don't get to play), so why bother showing up?

Also, you really should be allowed to play the character you want and any DM should work with you to make any necessary changes WITHOUT penalizing you. It sucks to abandon one of the original party members all of a sudden, but it sucks even more to have a player who doesn't want to play - that's the ultimate receipt to a DM that they've failed.

All this gets worse because of you being a new player. They really should be able to cut you some slack and properly introduce you to the game, even if it means giving you privileges that the other players don't have.

OP: I would talk over your concerns (out of character) with the DM and the other players. If they value you being with them, they will make at least some small attempt to accommodate you.

If they do try to change things up (either by letting you create a new character or by letting you make more decisions with your current character), then that is a good sign. If this happens, keep playing with them and see if you can compromise to get something everyone enjoys.

If they just say "you are wrong" and don't show any attempt to compromise, I would just find a new group.

Best of luck! I have definitely been there, by the way, and have ended up just leaving the group. For what it's worth, I am happy with the group I have now, and you just have to keep looking. Also, if you do leave the group, make sure to visit people playing other systems, because it might be that these are more popular in your area.


Sounds like you and the wizard player need to team up and find/make a new group.

I'd walk away and not look back. I've known groups like the one you've described; it's the kind of thing that gives tabletop gaming a bad name.

You can't change anything because it'll mess with the GM's "vision"? Oh please, give me a break. D&D/PF is a cooperative storytelling game, the GM is just another player. A GM unable to adapt to unexpected curveballs being thrown by his/her players isn't worth playing with.

Dark Archive

It's the internet, so hot take analysis is the thing. However before we settle on advice that consists of telling a brand new player to magically find a new group on the basis of their description of the situation alone. Starting with teaming up with the other player and talking to the DM about their concerns makes more sense. Perhaps there are other thins at work the poster is unaware of, maybe the DM has just assumed that the newer players are following along the more experienced players and has missed the actual dynamic. The fact that the campaign is only going to forth level maybe influencing the GM not wanting to try and shoehorn in a different backstory towards the end. Maybe that's how he's always done it, certainly back in 2E there were places were the rules could easily put characters levels behind other party members. If attempts at an adult conversation don't work to better understand the reasoning then trying to find another group makes sense. But a new player leaving a group because they don't like it is not going to 'teach them a lesson' and could very well result in the new player never finding a group again. I can't say that I have observed too many new players who had bad first experiences keep at the hobby.


Daw wrote:
Changing your character will not change your party dynamic, where it is clear that your problem lies.

It does sound less like a problem with your character and more like a problem with your group.

ShinHakkaider wrote:

It also sounds like an interpersonal issue with the other players as well.

You might want to find a new group honestly if you guys cant find a way to play together as a group.

That may be the answer, but I'm not quite convinced. The OP is a noob. He might still have things to learn from the group. It might be that TTRPGs aren't for him, but again, it's still too early to tell.

ChocRage wrote:
I've noticed we always do what the cavalier or the rogue wants to do. I want to check this cave out or try and scout ahead but one of those two always pushed me aside (In character or ooc, sometimes both) and either does it for me or we do what they want.

So it is certainly possible that your fellow party members are being jerks. It is possible that, given you're a noob, that they are more experienced, and they know better than you. Both could be true.

I am an experienced player, but when I am the new member of a group, I usually keep my mouth shut for a little while and see what kind of party I have joined before I assert myself in the group or decide to leave.

I think you should take advantage of your noob status and make them explain why they want the party to do what they want to do and make them explain why your idea is a bad idea. It might be that their ideas are better, or it might be that they are misunderstanding your ideas somehow.

ChocRage wrote:
Also doesn't help the party is righteous and noble while my char is more neutral. Doing what she thinks is right for the group but mostly the help herself as well.

Druids can be just as righteous as Cavaliers (and Rogues?). They tend to be righteous about different things. You're supposed to be all about cycle of life, natural transformations, and respect for the balance of this and that or something. It's your character, though: it's up to you to get to know him or her and roleplay accordingly.

Meanwhile, Druids can be very powerful, and as you gain familiarity with the game, you will find you can gain influence over your party through your characters' personal power.


Rub-Eta wrote:
ChocRage wrote:
I think he is a elite DM, and is use to groups of players with 5+ years exp each.
Nope. Not as long as he refuses someone's fun. Elitist* maybe.

I generally find that experienced GMs (to not speak of their acumen, which is at least partially subjective) are far more inclined to say "yes" to things, having seen it all before and are prepared to roll with it in order to make sure people have a good time.

Any time a GM says "no" to something that would be completely sensible and understandable in the context of the game world (e.g. "my character wants to retire from adventuring"), that's probably a bad sign. Of course this could also be a "tough love, I want the new player to learn by doing" sort of thing, so it's not always a bad sign.


But the new player should be able to learn by doing what he or she would like to do, within the constraints of the game's framework. Being flat out told you can't change characters or something similar just doesn't sit well with most people. It just sounds more like a jerk GM than tough love. Just my two cents.


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♫ 'Cause suicide is painless, it brings on many changes, and I can take or leave it if I please ♫


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:

But the new player should be able to learn by doing what he or she would like to do, within the constraints of the game's framework. Being flat out told you can't change characters or something similar just doesn't sit well with most people. It just sounds more like a jerk GM than tough love. Just my two cents.

I could see "your character is fine; switching your character will not actually solve the problems you are having, which are not character problems" as a valid perspective. Generally I would want to intervene when people are having non-character problems, but "helping (particuarly new) players learn how to deal with interpersonal problems" is one of the toughest things this hobby features.


Fair, fair all. Another thing grating on me was the fact this world the DM has cooked up, is a odd blend of medieval and fantasy. And the group through words around that I'm consistently asking for 'plain English' terms. A scene that should take 20-30 mins often takes twice that long cause I've not a clue what half the things in the room are cause the Dm is using super accurate names for everything. Like he'd describe a iron gate as a portcullis for example, but say you didn't know that the hell a portcullis was? So you ask. Now do this for 2-3 times a sentence. I feel like a toddler that has walked into a master's degree is advance science.


But yeah, I'll heed you words and leave the group. Shame really, I'm not fussed about the system, just wanted a group to meet up with and have a good time. Can't play online cause my folks have the hearing of a f~!#ing bat of something cause I have to whisper or type and that is still too loud for them.


Some gamers have strong personalities, and some hog the spotlight. Its not a very conscientious thing for them to do, but at the same time they shouldn't need to stop and ask what you want to whenever something happens. I haven't been in your shoes exactly, but when I was younger I was certainly one of the shy people at the table so I think I understand how it feels when people talk over you. One time I joined an group of guys who had been gaming together for years, and I didn't want to shake the boat too much so I just went along with their plans. Now I alternate between being in the forefront and stepping back while others do their thing (often while I am recording the adventure's happenings in a journal or looking up a spell). You should certainly look in to finding a group that is more your speed, but if you chooose to try to work things out with this group, you should also try to assert yourself a little better.

As far as starting a new character at a lower level than everyone else? Boo, I say to that. Punishment should come from taking risks, bad choices in character, bad rolls, etc. Not for having a new character. Less gear? Sure. Lower level? Just make a character whose level is the same as everyone else. In the same group I mentioned above, I started at 4th level, and everyone else was 6th to 9th. It sucked.

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