Star Wars The Last Jedi


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Saw it. There are more plot holes than you can shake a stick at.

The new characters are terrible as usual. The old characters are either being sidelined (Chewbacca) or being forced to act completely out of character (Luke) in order to promote the new characters.

Star Wars used to be one of my favorite franchises but Disney has killed it for me. I won't be seeing the last episode because I just don't care what happens any more.

Oh well. There's plenty of sci-fi franchises out there that are still good so it's not the end of the world.


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Was there some sort of Chewbacca soliloquy that I missed in the original series? Because he was always a side character, people talked about him more than too him.


They should have had the furducks pilot the falcon while chewie blew up at-ats.

Liberty's Edge

Charles Scholz wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Someone did say the Luke closed Himself off from the force. Maybe that's why Yoda could'nt show Himself for years.

Me and a friend were talking and we think that

Spoiler:
The movie makes it look like Kylo killed Snoke, but we think it was Rey. Snoke was focusing on Kylo. So He would have detected what he would do. It looked like Rey was pretty sure Lukes lightsaber was going to her the way she grabbed it after.Kylo seemed pretty surprised it happened and looked like He was getting in a stance to defend Himself from Rey. Also when Kylo tells Hux that the girl killed Snoke, it sounds like He is trying to save His own skin. But alot of this movie is mis direction so that was the truth I think.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:
Me and a friend were talking and we think that ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I'm pretty sure it was Kylo. Snoke's whole "I can see Kylo's future" speech actually described what was happening while it was happening. Turning the lightsaber, striking down his true enemy... Snoke just mis-identified exactly who that enemy was.

As for the lightsaber catch afterwards, didn't they establish that Rey could also see bits of the future? Even without that, letting the Force guide her hand seems pretty reasonable.


thejeff wrote:
It's not decades, right? Ben Solo isn't that old. According to the Wiki timeline it's not clear exactly when that scene happened, but it was not more than 6 years before the movies.

Adam Driver is 34, so assuming Kylo is about the same age, it could have been as much as 15-17 years earlier (since Luke was calling him "a boy").


Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Legacy was also utter garbage.

loved legacy.


Werthead wrote:
thejeff wrote:
It's not decades, right? Ben Solo isn't that old. According to the Wiki timeline it's not clear exactly when that scene happened, but it was not more than 6 years before the movies.
Adam Driver is 34, so assuming Kylo is about the same age, it could have been as much as 15-17 years earlier (since Luke was calling him "a boy").

I haven't read all the other material, so I can't confirm it, but apparently Luke starting training him somewhere between 23 and 28 ABY and it was sometime after 28 that he turned and destroyed the temple. The movies take place in 34 ABY.

The 28 date seems to come from the Bloodline novel.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

On a side note, Alfie Curtis who played Dr Evazan in A New Hope has passed away.


Finally saw it over the weekend. Not a perfect movie, but I definitely enjoyed it more on first-viewing than I did TFA.

For those of you blaming Holdo for

Spoiler:
not letting Poe in on her plan, why does he get a pass for not letting her in on his plan?

Also, I think if Admiral Akbar had taken over, there would have been less reason for Poe and/or the audience to distrust him and the whole point of of that plot line was for Poe to learn that being a reckless hotshot doesn't always win the day.

And I agree with those saying Star Wars tech rarely makes sense. The tech has always been there to serve up certain imagery, rather than being a logical product of high-tech society.


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why...:

Quote:
not letting Poe in on her plan, why does he get a pass for not letting her in on his plan?

1) No way he's a traitor when the fleet would be dead 4 times over without him.

2) The white bronco police chase through the stars plan without the empire sending all the fighters to just shoot them down support or no support, AND without sending a ship ahead, and without calling in reinforcements, AND relying on the empire to scan for escape ships but not SCAN for escape ships , is so monumentally stupid and nonsensical that "she's setting us up" is a far more likely option.


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Spoiler:

1) Who says Poe is a traitor? He's just a hotshot with a tendency to shoot his mouth off (case in point when he basically spills the beans about the Rebels' plan to Finn over an non-secured and easily-overheard comm.) I've never served in the military, so maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't think it was common for Admirals and the like to keep their subordinates up-to-date on their plans whenever one of the latter is simply seeking reassurance. Especially a subordinate who was recently disciplined for disobeying orders.

2a) The effectiveness of fighter craft versus capital ships in the Star Wars universe seems to vary wildly, depending on the needs of the plot. In general a fighter craft spinning out of control after being shot down tends to be drastically more dangerous to a capital ship than one actively trying to do damage with its weapons. I'm willing to accept a lot of handwaving where their capabilities are concerned.

2b) Why the FO sending a ship ahead via hyperspace wouldn't work has already been discussed.

2c) Why would they need to call for reinforcements? They've already got the Rebels outgunned, their movements tracked and they're quickly running out of fuel. Those other ships are probably better-served conquering former-Republic systems.

2d) My understanding is the Rebels were cloaking their transport ships in some fashion, which meant the FO didn't see them until they knew what to look for.


Iirc, this isnt the first time they have done a sublight escape...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

1) You are very correct.


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Kalshane wrote:

For those of you blaming Holdo for

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
She doesn't need to tell him much to tell him that there is a plan, that she and Leia have a contingency for this eventuality, and that since their fighters were all conveniently docked in one bay and blown up, that he's going to be at loose ends for a while.

Knowing that Poe "Man! Of! Action!" Dameron isn't going to take enforced idleness terribly well isn't exactly a shock. Cluing him in would have been sensible damage control to head off hotshot solo efforts which a quick analysis of his character would have made a pretty obvious eventuality.

He's going to try to do something, regardless, so if you don't want him screwing up your very real (albeit pretty stupid from a military history perspective) plan, you need to let him know it exists and that it's contingent upon maintaining fleet discipline.


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Spoiler:
Kalshane wrote:
2b) Why the FO sending a ship ahead via hyperspace wouldn't work has already been discussed.

No. very bad attempts to patch the plot hole have been offered, and not worked. Still breaks the plots axle and sends it flying off into a ditch. Admiral Holdo as a character unfortunately goes with it.


Can anyone tell me how fast tie fighters are relative to republic cruisers? There is a gaping plot hole that the movie kinda blithely waved off.

Also, how many tie's would the FO had available in that fleet? More than what was shown I have no doubt.


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The movie was good. DJ is probably my new favorite Star Wars character—a Boba Fett with an actual personality and motivation beyond "a+*&#$~". Rose was a great addition to the cast. It was just good. Probably the best Star Wars movie ever made, excepting possibly Empire Strikes Back (bearing in mind that I think most people are a little too in love with the old movies—they're good, not great).

Oh, Poe's development was good. The plothole is a real plothole, don't get me wrong, but it was all very good from a character standpoint—calling out Poe's dumb heroics for what they were, and giving the spotlight to the character most movies would paint as the villain for not supporting said dumb heroics, was necessary for his growth in the movie.

Anyone who hates the new characters will obviously hate this movie. I don't know why they're still watching. Luke's, Han's and Leia's story ended two movies ago.

There's plenty I could say about it, but I'll just leave off with this: Maz Kanata better not be a union buster.


Black Dougal wrote:

Can anyone tell me how fast tie fighters are relative to republic cruisers? There is a gaping plot hole that the movie kinda blithely waved off.

Also, how many tie's would the FO had available in that fleet? More than what was shown I have no doubt.

I'm not sure what the plot hole is?

Ties are much faster than the cruisers, but they were explicitly called off in the movie when the cruisers got too far away for the destroyers to give proper fire support.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Unfortunately, the new movies made the entire subject of the balance of the force far more confusing now that they're talking about a light side. In the original movies, there was *no light side*. It serously was never mentioned. The jedi simply used the force, not the light side of the force. The dark side was a corruption and imbalance of the force. Whether the main 'force' was inherently good or just neutral would be an entire other subject.

The fact that the new movies talk about a light side firmly put them into the category of fan fiction written by people who didn't pay attention to the originals IMO.


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thejeff wrote:


Ties are much faster than the cruisers, but they were explicitly called off in the movie when the cruisers got too far away for the destroyers to give proper fire support.

Spoiler:
After they blew in through the doors and wrecked (#$*$# up and looked to be about 5 minutes away from destroying the ship. Not sure what "support" was needed they were doing fine.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
thejeff wrote:


Ties are much faster than the cruisers, but they were explicitly called off in the movie when the cruisers got too far away for the destroyers to give proper fire support.
** spoiler omitted **

You can argue bad tactics, but it's not really a plot hole if it was explicitly stated in the movie.


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thejeff wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

You can argue bad tactics, but it's not really a plot hole if it was explicitly stated in the movie.

It is when you tell one thing but show another.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
There's plenty I could say about it, but I'll just leave off with this: Maz Kanata better not be a union buster.

It's possible that the "unions" are a glorified Protection Racket who do little in the way of authentically ensuring that the working rights of the bartenders, dealers, entertainers, and janitorial staff at her Space Casino are upheld.

It's also possible that living 500 years has no effect on being able to sympathize to a perspective antithetical to your own material conditions.


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I actually really like Poe's character. I was rooting for him the whole way

Spoiler:
through the mutiny until Leia stunned him and it was clear he'd messed up.

And he did mess up. Even if you think the Admiral owed him any explanation at all, he still not only withheld his own plan from her, but also the information on how the First Order was tracking them. (Remember, Finn and Rose are the ones to figure it out, who then tell Poe.)

Had he told the Admiral what the First Order was doing to track them and she was still dismissive, I'd be firmly in the "he had no reason to believe the Admiral was actually going to do something" camp.

My question is would folks be just as angry if the situation was reversed? Poe doesn't piss off Leia at the beginning, maintains his rank and takes command once all the flag officers get blown into space. He has an idea to save them, but he's worried about showing his hand to the First Order so he keeps it close to the vest. Some other officer or fighter pilot who thinks that Poe's going to get them all killed based on his reckless reputation stages a mutiny and manages to thoroughly muck up Poe's plan. Would you be mad at Acting Admiral Poe in this instance?

As for the Hyperspace stuff,

Spoiler:
it's been made pretty clear in the movies that you can't just stop on a dime coming out of a jump unless you're Han Solo piloting the Millenium Falcon. No one else, that we know of, has ever been crazy enough to try it (or at least lived to tell about it.) We've also not seen anyone do the sort of multiple short jumps that would have been needed to cut off the Resistance ships (since, as others have said, they can alter their own sublight course as soon as they detect you spinning up your hyperdrive.)


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thejeff wrote:
Black Dougal wrote:

Can anyone tell me how fast tie fighters are relative to republic cruisers? There is a gaping plot hole that the movie kinda blithely waved off.

Also, how many tie's would the FO had available in that fleet? More than what was shown I have no doubt.

I'm not sure what the plot hole is?

Ties are much faster than the cruisers, but they were explicitly called off in the movie when the cruisers got too far away for the destroyers to give proper fire support.

This is the kinda issue that really undermines my enjoyment of the movie. If I was a causal movie goer probably couldn't care less, but this is the crux, an imperial star destroyer was supposed to carry 72 fighters. These first order behemoths one would assume carry as many or more..during Poe's and Finns escape in TFW we see one bay held at least a dozen. So with all those capital ships chasing the rebels, why would you send out just a small number? You should have several hundred to spare..and when did the empire ever care about Tie losses? Is there a supply constraint we are not made aware of?

I am sure some smart ass is now going to chime in about how the original Death Star had thousands and only sent out 6 and then another 3..So yeah, you got me..but as the Wolf states, the small number they sent out in TLJ are effective, so the whole plot line that follows makes no sense.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Star Wars is purely space opera. It's only science fiction if your fiction contains nearly zero science.

An ISD doesn't carry 72 TIEs. It carries "enough TIEs to act as a dramatic counterbalance to whatever the Rebels/Resistance are using." Every technical detail and do-dad is subject to the Laws of Drama and Plot, not Physics.


Actually, are the TIEs effective, or is it just Kylo? He's the one that took out the fighter bay, and the only other significant contributions came from his wingmen.


Skeld wrote:

Star Wars is purely space opera. It's only science fiction if your fiction contains nearly zero science.

An ISD doesn't carry 72 TIEs. It carries "enough TIEs to act as a dramatic counterbalance to whatever the Rebels/Resistance are using." Every technical detail and do-dad is subject to the Laws of Drama and Plot, not Physics.

I totally get what you are saying, the plot dictates the action.

Every story is different, and where continuity is a problem, disregard.

In that light, its a great fun movie.

I guess I just like realism in my space opera, just like I want realism in my fantasy.

It's a hard act to maintain, as we can see from Game of Thrones which for the last 2 seasons has thrown away the travel rulebook in favour of advancing the story. Same process at work here. I understand it, but don't like it.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

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Saw The Last Jedi a couple of days ago. As a big Star Wars fan, my reaction to it was mixed. For me, it was certainly my least favourite of the most recent movies, and might require a rewatch and some further thought.

SPOILER:

Things I Didn’t Like

The Rebels OnThe Run/Armada in Flight plot-line.
A slow crawl through space isn’t quite the edge of your seat, adrenaline rush I’m used to in a Star Wars space battle. It seemed to make little logical sense – all the capital ships travel at exactly the same speed, for some reason the First Order don’t just send the fighters and bombers in, why don’t the First Order just call some extra ships to jump in and trap the fleet etc. Given the size of the galaxy, it felt odd to see the Resistance consisting of only a handful of ships compared to the substantial armada fielded during the Battle Of Endor. The “tracking through lightspeed” development didn’t feel very Star Wars – defining how Star Wars tech works always feels a little like a game of jenga.

I would have preferred a larger, longer running space battle involving larger fleets on both sides – a fighting retreat on the part of the Resistance. It would have been fun to have put Poe back in an X-wing and told his character arc with a few more dogfights rather him stuck on a starship. Fin and Rose’s expedition could have been about uncovering a traitor broadcasting the Resistance’s location rather than a convoluted means of overcoming First Order radar, which leads me to;

Casino Bight
As many agree, this felt like the flimsiest element of the film. I loved spending time with Fin and Rose, but the planet and plot seemed underdeveloped. In theory I loved the concept of seeing a hive of scum and villainy with money to burn, but Casino Bight didn’t seem to have much depth. Too many of its elements just seemed ported straight out of ‘real world casinos’ – not a lot of imagination there. We seemed to spend too much time there without anything really making an impression. Some better world-building and boiling down the excursion to Casino Bight to two or three really good scenes would have been a good improvement. Plus making that excursion actually matter.

Yoda
There were a couple of moments that felt too close to fan-service to me. “Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you’re my only hope” might have gone there were I not feeling so much love for the departed spirit of Carrie. But Yoda’s return annoyed me. I felt there could have been other ways to guide Luke back to his final act. A few disembodied lines drifting out of the Force I would have been fine with, but the scene we got felt too much like a desire to bring back the little green gnome because he’s so associated with Star Wars. Didn’t want to see him, though it wasn’t quite as irritating as watching him throw down with Count Dooku.

Things I Loved

Rey+Ren
I thought this arc was superbly done and superbly acted. It brought a new direction to the core of what makes Star Wars special – the lure of the Dark Side. The dismissal of Rey’s parentage made perfect sense to me, and creates a healthy democratisation of the Star Wars universe which opens up space for new stories to be told. The easy dispatching of Snoke was also excellent – Ren makes a much more compelling antagonist and the subversion of expectations was delicious. The following battle against Snoke’s bodyguards was a brilliant action scene – one of my favourites in the franchise. Really looking forward to how Rey+Ren plays out in Episode IX.

Old Man Luke
Luke’s story also really worked for me. His self-imposed exile chimed with my impressions of his character from the original trilogy – as a figure who struggles with the burden the Force has placed upon him, the dark weight of his lineage and the lack of support he had in trying to rebuild the Jedi. Shutting himself off from the Force helped answer many questions raised by The Force Awakens, and I liked how his return to the fray didn’t happen easily. The final Force projection twist left me uncertain – it was a good one, but I felt that Leia should have sensed he wasn’t really there and given us some subtle indication. Mark Hamill’s performance was commendable, it’s a shame we’ve not seen him on the silver screen much outside of Star Wars.

Porgs
Adorable!

Things I’m unsure about

Princess Mary Poppins
Again, the good will I feel towards Carrie Fisher helped me accept her Mary Poppins moment. But I wouldn’t have put it in if I were the director.

BB8 Maquina
I really loved BB8 in The Force Awakens but he risked being too clever and adaptable in this, just as R2-D2 could kind of do anything in the prequels. He was a little bit too good at taking out ranks of stormtroopers while piloting a walker.

Phasma
Great to see her have more to do in The Last Jedi but still want more. Seems fairly likely she didn’t survive her fate but if she reappears in Episode IX I’ll be happy.


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Skeld wrote:

Star Wars is purely space opera. It's only science fiction if your fiction contains nearly zero science.

Space opera is light on the science side of science fiction, but still requires a resemblance of internal consistency

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Transylvanian Tadpole wrote:

Saw The Last Jedi a couple of days ago. As a big Star Wars fan, my reaction to it was mixed. For me, it was certainly my least favourite of the most recent movies, and might require a rewatch and some further thought.

Spoiler:
Old Man Luke
The final Force projection twist left me uncertain – it was a good one, but I felt that Leia should have sensed he wasn’t really there and given us some subtle indication. Mark Hamill’s performance was commendable, it’s a shame we’ve not seen him on the silver screen much outside of Star Wars.

Princess Mary Poppins
Again, the good will I feel towards Carrie Fisher helped me accept her Mary Poppins moment. But I wouldn’t have put it in if I were the director.


Spoiler:
Leia did know, she just didn't share with anyone. Luke gave her Han's dice, but she left them at the base, knowing they weren't real.

As for subtle indication that he wasn't there, watch the fight with Ren. You will see he doesn't leave any red salt footprints during the battle like Ren does.

Mary Poppins indeed. Jedi have been shown levitating things and themselves with the force throughout the movies. Saving oneself by moving to a place of safety should not be derided.


Spoiler:
I did not mind that Leia saved herself with the Force, but the cinematography of that entire scene looked off to me. It looked like something straight out of a music video - I expect that there will be a Shooting Stars parody, if there isn't already one.


Charles Scholz wrote:
Transylvanian Tadpole wrote:

Saw The Last Jedi a couple of days ago. As a big Star Wars fan, my reaction to it was mixed. For me, it was certainly my least favourite of the most recent movies, and might require a rewatch and some further thought.

Spoiler:
Old Man Luke
The final Force projection twist left me uncertain – it was a good one, but I felt that Leia should have sensed he wasn’t really there and given us some subtle indication. Mark Hamill’s performance was commendable, it’s a shame we’ve not seen him on the silver screen much outside of Star Wars.
Princess Mary Poppins
Again, the good will I feel towards Carrie Fisher helped me accept her Mary Poppins moment. But I wouldn’t have put it in if I were the director.

Spoiler:
Leia did know, she just didn't share with anyone. Luke gave her Han's dice, but she left them at the base, knowing they weren't real.

As for subtle indication that he wasn't there, watch the fight with Ren. You will see he doesn't leave any red salt footprints during the battle like Ren does.
Mary Poppins indeed. Jedi have been shown levitating things and themselves with the force throughout the movies. Saving oneself by moving to a place of safety should not be derided.

Spoiler:
1) Yeah, I liked that. At first I thought it was just a projection, but then when he touched Leia and left the dice, I wasn't sure, but the lack of red footprints was the clear indicator. And they lingered on Kylo's footprints enough to make it clear, without beating you over the head with it. Quite well done.

And likely the intention behind the entire red salt thing.

2) Not so much that it shouldn't have been possible, but though we know Leia's force sensitive, we hadn't been given much of a clue that she was trained enough to do something like that, especially under those conditions. It came a little too far out of left field for me.

The Exchange

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Saw it last night.

Spoiler:
I just wonder how the First Order have come to dominate the galaxy if they are so incompetent, though. The destruction of the dreadnought at the beginning seemed quite avoidable if they'd had support ships in attendance so a lone x-wing couldn't wreak the havoc that it did. Or that it had no weapons to, like, pick off fighters, given that they would hardly have been a novel threat by that time (y'know, two deathstars blown up, for example). Or (following on from that theme) building giant ships with a single point where, if you drop a spanner in there, the whole thing blows up. I guess it was only matched by the military idiocy of the Rebellion.

But other than that, I enjoyed it. Liked the twist at the end. Liked the scenes with Luke. I liked it wasn't an entirely flagrant remake of a previous film (previous episode, I'm looking at you) and carved out some new ground. Interested to see where they go with it for the next episode.


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

Saw it last night.

Spoiler:
I just wonder how the First Order have come to dominate the galaxy if they are so incompetent, though. The destruction of the dreadnought at the beginning seemed quite avoidable if they'd had support ships in attendance so a lone x-wing couldn't wreak the havoc that it did. Or that it had no weapons to, like, pick off fighters, given that they would hardly have been a novel threat by that time (y'know, two deathstars blown up, for example). Or (following on from that theme) building giant ships with a single point where, if you drop a spanner in there, the whole thing blows up. I guess it was only matched by the military idiocy of the Rebellion.

But other than that, I enjoyed it. Liked the twist at the end. Liked the scenes with Luke. I liked it wasn't an entirely flagrant remake of a previous film (previous episode, I'm looking at you) and carved out some new ground. Interested to see where they go with it for the next episode.

Spoiler:
It did have anti-fighter weapons, that was the whole point of Poe and his team going in and clearing the small turrets in the beginning. And the bombers were still wiped out in the process. And in this case, it wasn't a spanner, or even a single torpedo, but a lot of bombs.

I do kind of agree that brilliance in military tactics isn't really on display here. OTOH, it's not really the point either.

It isn't as clear to me, just from the movies, where the First Order came from or how they so suddenly and quickly got resources to match the old Empire while the Republic appears to have had no military forces at all? Just another ragtag resistance, with apparently even less resources than the original one did.

Liberty's Edge

Spoiler:
I mean if there's anything we know about (space)Nazis, it's that they're prone to incredible feats of ineptitude. The stormtrooper sharpshooting training alone should have given the Rebellion a win years before Luke came in.

And being wiped out, then reviving the tradition, and having to subdue an entire galaxy, didn't do any favors for the First Order's organization. The two dunderheads running it at the end of this movie are kind of the icons of bad spaceNazi planning.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If I recall correctly the First Order were former Empire Soldiers who were in charge of/had access to the Empire's armories/surplus and thought "hey, we got all the guns and bombs now, let's take over!".

I'm probably horribly wrong on that.

The Exchange

Rysky wrote:

If I recall correctly the First Order were former Empire Soldiers who were in charge of/had access to the Empire's armories/surplus and thought "hey, we got all the guns and bombs now, let's take over!".

I'm probably horribly wrong on that.

I'm not aware of that being mentioned anywhere in the films. Though they always seem to have plenty of hardware, no matter how much seems to get blown up. Lousy tactics, but great logistics.

(And replying to the spoilers above)

Spoiler:
It's been fairly classic naval tactics pretty much since forever to have capital ships protected by escorts, specifically for the purpose of warding off smaller ships. And the dreadnought didn't have guns to take down the x-wing (otherwise, presumably, a single x-wing would have been toast) - they had to launch tie-fighters to do it, and they say as much. The guns the x-wing was destroying were to take down the bombers, which seem to be (a bit) bigger. I dunno, it just seemed a bit sloppy, and organisationally unreal for a space navy to have no escort ships.

Though I take the point that the First Order is probably not a sort of set up where self-criticism and openness to ideas further down the chain of command would be welcome. "Er, Sir, I just noticed we have no escort sh-" "Shut up and get back to your post!"

I agree it doesn't really matter, and I also agree it isn't the point - the point is to have lots of flashy explosions and generally an entertaining film, rather than a dry treatise on fantasy naval tactics in space. And it didn't really impact on my impression of the film (spaceships with glass jaws are almost a tradition - a feature, rather than a fault - in Star Wars). It's just a quibble. And who cares anyway, other than a few armchair nerds like myself who have played too much Traveller?


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Nice to meet another Traveller player.


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Rysky wrote:

If I recall correctly the First Order were former Empire Soldiers who were in charge of/had access to the Empire's armories/surplus and thought "hey, we got all the guns and bombs now, let's take over!".

I'm probably horribly wrong on that.

No, I don't think you are. The First order "rose from the ashes of the Empire" so it makes sense that there was a lot of surplus. And there was enough time for the First Order to establish itself in the "Unknown Regions," so the Republic and Resistance has no idea of the true size of the First Order. Just my two Credits.


thejeff wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:
Transylvanian Tadpole wrote:

Saw The Last Jedi a couple of days ago. As a big Star Wars fan, my reaction to it was mixed. For me, it was certainly my least favourite of the most recent movies, and might require a rewatch and some further thought.

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Salt:

I thought they might have done the whole "Luke doesn't leave footprints" thing, so I watched for that on the second viewing.

I didn't actually see nearly as much of that as I'd expect. Sure, there were a couple scenes where Luke was standing in the middle of a patch of white... but there was also at least one where Kylo was doing the same thing. It was inconsistent enough that I couldn't tell if it was a deliberate hint or just a failure in whatever they were using for ground cover.


Spoiler:
I think we've escalated to the point where regular Star Destroyers are escort ships for the latest uber vessel. As for clearing the turrets, was that a solo run by Poe or was he just the only survivor?
Basically Poe could finish off the turrets because he was a named character and they're not even mooks.


shaventalz wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Salt:
I noticed it watching it the first time. There was at least one good focus shot of Ren moving his foot and leaving a red trail. I don't think there was as much emphasis on Luke not doing so, there weren't any where he actually did.

It leaped out at me at least.


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Spoiler:
.. and when I looked there was only one set of footprints in the sand. And it was then i realized that my old master had not walked with me, but instead rode me like a backpack for my lesson. As is tradition.

Grand Lodge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Skeld wrote:
Star Wars is purely space opera. It's only science fiction if your fiction contains nearly zero science.
Space opera is light on the science side of science fiction, but still requires a resemblance of internal consistency

Meh. Internal consistency is fine when it doesn't interfere with story or plot and as long as the inconsistencies aren't egregious*. With the rise of internet movie analysts and critics, too much emphasis gets placed on internal consistency to the determent of everything else. It's almost like people would be happier with a crap story as long as the writers adhere to every previous shared detail. Then any incosistency get s shouted from the rooftops as "plothole!".

TLJ was about as internally consistent as any previous SW movie, which makes the movies consistently internally inconsistent. I'm cool with that.

* - I admit that everyone's "ergreious" tolerance level is different.

Sovereign Court

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You can help overcome even egregious inconsistencies with a great story. I think the "run em out of gas" storyline is so dull folks cant help but tear it apart.

Grand Lodge

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Pan wrote:
You can help overcome even egregious inconsistencies with a great story. I think the "run em out of gas" storyline is so dull folks cant help but tear it apart.

That's entirely possible.


thejeff wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
It was a solo run. The bombers (bombers - actually, something else that bothered me: surely they'd use missiles, since (at least) you need gravity for bombs to work; yeah, I know, you can't hear explosions in space either) then got chopped up anyway.

Skeld wrote:

* - I admit that everyone's "ergreious" tolerance level is different.

This passed it. At warp speed.

Its like a whole bunch of different ideas for cool scenes that don't go with what came before or even match whats in the same movie. I mean, this isn't a little thing like ice cream guy being in two places at once.

Spoiler:

The plot can't be "we have to keep going" while you have an escape pod that can can evacuate people and come back but inexplicably isn't.

Luke force projecting makes sense. Luke Watching one sun set while watching another one rise is a cool scene. But they don't work together.
Whats the point? Why not have him actually there if he's going to die?

You can't have Gonzo piloting be "Wrong" while it works.

Weaponizing light speed looks cool. But raises way too many issues.

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