What's a strong slow burn class or build?


Advice


You have your blaster archetyoe sorcerers and your 2 handed fighters. These characters are built towards doing as much damage as quickly as possible.

What's a build that can whittle down the enemies strength along with having decent crowd control or defenses so they can do it safely?


There isn't a lot of slow-burn around... things that do damage over time don't usually add-up to all that much in the long run, and generally there's a guy with a big weapon ready to decapitate (your side or the other side) if you're taking too long about things.

Maybe someone else can figure something?


I'd immediately think of a Hexcrafter Magus.With a strike hit and use Bestow Curse.

Unchained Rogue can do strength damage.


Classes like witches or mesmerists that focus on debuffing might be what you're after. Rather than outright killing their opponents, they can render them harmless. Then, should the witch or similar class want, they can slowly kill their impotent enemy one point of damage at a time. Of course, that's usually what your minions party members are for.


I also think about Hungry Ghost Monks. The way they work they kind've get stronger the more they fight.


I guess I'm surprised no one mentioned the kineticist, if for no other reason that they have a class ability called burn. I'm no expert with the class, but they have ranged attacks (air having longer range, which for most is only 30'). Some have aoe, and I'm sure some get wall type abilities for crowd control.


If you don't have to worry about others in the party then some sort of mounted archer might qualify - being a real distance off and maybe flying is a solid start on your defence. If possible with the air blessing or something similar so that you can outrange even fireballs.

There are clerics with variant channelling who can dazelock crowds while doing a bit of damage. Many full casters can dazelock with Dazing Spell of course but that takes a little more effort.

Apparently geokineticists can 5' step into and out of the ground once they can earth glide, and deadly earth or wall infusions can do damage over time while they're away. The Delay Blast feat would help too.

Most of these would work poorly with other characters though, the dazelock types possibly excepted. As enemies they would be frustrating and boring to play against. Unless you're planning a solo campaign I don't see what this would be for.

Dark Archive

There are some fun Alchemist discoveries that alter bombs. One changes your bomb into a burning damage over time effect that lasts gor he number of bomb dice you have. Another one front-loads the bomb damage but it also has a 1d6 burn each turn until the enemy wasted an action putting it out. They presumably stack, unless the GM is incredibly specific about just how 'on fire' a person can be.

The Blood Kineticist archetype can take their sweet time slapping on a few status effects including Sickened and Bleed.

Witches are all about dismantling enrmies. Lower their saves. Thdn make them roll twice and take the worst result for most d20 rolls. Then you can even demoralize them. And finally, drop one of your many delightfully vicious spells to seal the deal.

Sovereign Court

I guess my Slayer might be an example of it. It's a Thunder & Fang build using Shield Slam and Shield Mastery, acquired through ranger combat style feats.

Shield Mastery lets you gain enormous value for money on your klar (or any shield); I spent about 10K to get a +3 mithral klar, which also works as a +3 weapon, saving 18K so far.

I get very high accuracy (+3 weapon, Studied Target, decent strength, no 2WF penalties on shield hand). Damage isn't overwhelming because Paizo doesn't love 2WF, but between Studied Target, enhancement bonus and sneak attack it's steady going.

Shield Slam lets me move enemies around, so there's an element of control to the build as well. I got Dodge and Mobility too on my way to Shadowdancer/Spring Attack, so that I can attack from the right angle to shove an enemy against a wall and then follow him to keep him down. Mobility and such a nice shield means I don't get hurt by everyone else in the melee while I'm doing it.

So it's definitely slow burn. There is no daily resource apart from HP. It's simple to play but the Slayer class gives you nice skill points so that's good too.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
NoTongue wrote:

You have your blaster archetyoe sorcerers and your 2 handed fighters. These characters are built towards doing as much damage as quickly as possible.

What's a build that can whittle down the enemies strength along with having decent crowd control or defenses so they can do it safely?

Any tier 1 control caster. Better defenses go divine vs. arcane.

Alternatively a control+summons focused caster will also work. Put minions between u and the baddies. several summons have their own abilities via spells or Ex or Su that debuff.

Also the aforementioned kineticist, IF you don't use burn beyond your daily overflow, there are several decent infusions, elements with fair defense, and he has 2 good saves, light armor prof so the class is okay, though definitely not tier 1.

+1Witch, Shaman, Oracles have hexes or other Su that can debuff. With Shammy and Oracle having better defense stats.

Keep in mind that as opposed to slowed, reduced attack, reduced damage, blinded, entangled, etc... usually (unless playing a character with a code vs. killing) the best debuff/status effect is dead. Or in the case of a blaster vaporized. :)

Dark Archive

Usually, you don't want a class that weakens enemies over several rounds. It's boring and risky for the pc's. You want to either neutralize/massively debuff on round 1 or do significant damage to one or more opponents every round.


Combats usually last 3 - 5 rounds. There really isn't time for "slow burn".

Most of the suggestion I'm seeing here aren't things I would call slow burn, they're just not directly dealing damage.

All the suggestions of debuffing and summoning and so fourth aren't slow burn, they're just different from directly dealing damage.

Slow burn to me implies slow whittling down the enemy, either through small debuffs or low hp damage. I'm thinking something like an ability that would cause 1 damage to a stat each round. But that doesn't work in Pathfinder.

Round 1 the penalty does nothing (requires at least 2 damage to decrease the modifier). Round 2 they would take a -1 on things associated with that stat. Round 4, they would take a -2. Sure, over time it could completely neutralize a character. You don't have that time. Combats rarely go long enough for this kind of character to be relevant.

Especially not when my antipaladin character can walk in cause sickened, shaken, has an aura to reduce saves, and is going to hit his target with a conductive weapon to land a curse to reduce saves. Which will then stack for a -10 to saves. And then my friend the wizard casts something nasty with a save. And destroys the encounter within 2 turns.


Claxon wrote:

Combats usually last 3 - 5 rounds. There really isn't time for "slow burn".

Most of the suggestion I'm seeing here aren't things I would call slow burn, they're just not directly dealing damage.

All the suggestions of debuffing and summoning and so fourth aren't slow burn, they're just different from directly dealing damage.

Slow burn to me implies slow whittling down the enemy, either through small debuffs or low hp damage. I'm thinking something like an ability that would cause 1 damage to a stat each round. But that doesn't work in Pathfinder.

Round 1 the penalty does nothing (requires at least 2 damage to decrease the modifier). Round 2 they would take a -1 on things associated with that stat. Round 4, they would take a -2. Sure, over time it could completely neutralize a character. You don't have that time. Combats rarely go long enough for this kind of character to be relevant.

Especially not when my antipaladin character can walk in cause sickened, shaken, has an aura to reduce saves, and is going to hit his target with a conductive weapon to land a curse to reduce saves. Which will then stack for a -10 to saves. And then my friend the wizard casts something nasty with a save. And destroys the encounter within 2 turns.

The thing about effects changing by rounds and "slow burn" got me thinking about the spell Heat Metal, or maybe Tar Ball talk about slow burn! :P They're not great as a damage dealing spells, but they're divine spells they're from a less damage focused list than the sorc/wiz, even so flaming sphere would probably be better for damage, for what that's worth.


I think if you want to be a character that doesn't do damage as quickly as possible, you're best suited to be a character that helps other people do damage as quickly as possible.

There are a lot of characters who do considerable damage without nova-ing, so "you have sustainability" next to those people doesn't matter if your damage is much lower than theirs.

So if you weren't interested in "damage is a way of winning" I would focus on battlefield control, debuffing, and buffing, as these can be effective and rewarding strategies. In my RotRL game, as a Telekineticist I didn't have the raw damage (bad composites) of the Barbarian and the Archer past a certain point, so I would lay down walls/clouds/patches that trip/entangle/grapple/bull rush and attempt to quickly disable spellcasters.


This is a difficult proposition as folks already mentioned. If you take too long, you risk the party dying to the enemies that aren't slow burn enemies.

The best slow burn I can think of would be a campaign, preferably within the first 10ish levels of the game, built around it. An intrigue campaign with swashbuckling and debuff magic, etc. It would work especially well if the PCs are really "good guys" and prefer not to kill. That means you're doing more debuffing, knocking folks out, holding/fearing them, etc. In any normal campaign though? When two hill giants come calling, you better take them out first or they will beat you to a pulp.

Also, while it's generally considered a lame way to give advice, I bet there are other game systems that have more of a slow burn style combat. If we assume Pathfinder combats take 30 minutes to do 3-5 round combat, you probably don't want to take 60 minutes just to slow burn. You'd want a system that moves faster so you can get more actions in the same 30 minutes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This gets into one of the of the most classic debates on these forums: What is the "best" way to deal with combat.

The most "efficient" strategy generally involves high DC save-or-suck casters, (although dominate person/monster, is usually the most powerful tactic). Win initiative at all costs, then hit the monster with a maximum DC color spray, glitterdust, create pit, flesh to stone, or slumber hex, etc. (Bonus points if Spell Resistance does not apply.) The idea is to make the monster incapable of taking meaningful actions. The other party members then coup de grace the helpless/hapless creature. If this is your playstyle, martials must be capable of one-shotting most CR equivalent monsters to stay relevant.

While there is little debate that this is the most efficient way to deal with most combats, it produces a game that is not very compelling to GM, or play. Combats generally are identical non-events, usually decided by who wins initiative. If the encounter falls out of the areas the party is optimized for, then they find they have little to fall back on, which is not a very fun situation for most players and GMs.

There is another way to play, but it is more likely to involve some risk to the characters. If you focus your characters on more defensive tactics, combats generally last longer, and a wide variety of tactics can be used. For example, I played a summoning cleric who also focused on healing, and buffing (luck domain). It was a very effective character, who almost always had a variety of useful options for a situation.


Against creatures without Heal skill or magical healing the Cabalist archetype of the Vigilante could work as a solo opponent. Stab for level = bleed damage, then walk (or dimension door) away, because cool guys don't watch explosions or enemies bleeding out behind them. Are there ways to make the Heal check harder? Some forms of bleed do it inherently, but I don't know of anything that can be applied generally.

The Exchange

You may be looking for a poison specialist. Your enemies will gradually weaken as combat goes on.

In general poison isn't great precisely because it takes so long (along with DCs that beefy monsters rarely have a hard time with and very expensive per-use costs). You have to really specialize in poisons. Take a look at the Eldritch poisoner alchemist archetype from a Black Markets. Among other things, they create their own special poisons from no-cost components whose DCs scale with level.


I should clarify that this is not a way to deal with combat efficiently, if anything the class is being tailored towards being slightly sub par because the DM feels that fights are over too quickly.

Dark Archive

Well, the best way to do it would be things like bleed damage, poison, spells like acid arrow, flaming sphere, spiritual weapon, etc. Some debuffs like evil eye and misfortune of the witch would be good for this style of play. If the DM is worried about combats being too short, he needs to worry more about beefing up his encounters than players deliberately trying to do less damage per round to the opponents. Damage scales very rapidly in Pathfinder so doing 3 bleed per round and a few points of str from a poison are pretty ineffective against a giant or dragon that can pump out hundreds of points a damage a round.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / What's a strong slow burn class or build? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice
Druid Gear