Trait or feat that made the GM help you remember mission details?


Pathfinder Society


There was a feat or trait that was in a Society book (maybe Seeker of Secrets?) that allowed you to ask the GM to remind you of the details of your mission. It was basically, "I want to be lazy and not take notes, but I want my character to be totally aware of the details anyway."

Does anyone remember that option? What was it called, and what book was it in? Is it still allowed in PFS?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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It's the Chronicler vanity from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide. 10 prestige to allow you to ask the GM once per session to repeat a fact about the mission or backstory, or an NPC name.

Scarab Sages

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That seems a very expensive solution, to deal with an issue that could be covered by simply saying to the GM, "Before we set off, we'll write down all the pertinent information from the briefing, borrow a map, and refresh our memories of local events.".

I certainly don't want to reward lazy players, but at some level we have to respect that for most, it's a game, not to be taken too seriously, and that the PCs who live or die by their wits would be more motivated, patient, and aware, that a group who are in their fifth game of the weekend (and tenth coffee of the day), trying to fit the scenario into a narrow time slot.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

There's also "an intelligence check to remember something." (Never found a source for what that is but a mindchemist adds twice his intelligence modifier on the check!)

I usually set very low (DC1) checks for information that the PCs absolutely need ("what town were we going to again?"), DC5 for things that are very helpful but you can still probably proceed without ("wasn't there a contact who might know more about our quarry?") DC10 for information that you probably should have paid attention to ("Didn't Kreighton say something about why this place was haunted?") and DC 15 to 20 or higher for details that we didn't really get into during the briefing ("was the noblewoman wearing the insignia of either of these houses?")

Having said that, the Chronicler is also fun for having someone to write tales of your daring exploits!

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

I agree that you have to be realistic and fair about such things, especially if you're GMing a game in a short, noisy con slot and hammering through the boxed text as quickly as possible. The GM should always ensure that key NPC names are clearly spoken, as is the part where the VC gives you the key points of the mission. I also think it's expected that the GM should repeat themself if asked for clarification shortly after (i.e. before the first encounter has started).

Maybe I've been trained by playing Call of Cthulhu campaigns where taking good notes was absolutely essential, but I always write down NPC names and key points about the mission when I'm playing. I don't think that's too unreasonable to expect of others.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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"What in that full page wall of text was actually our mission?"

This isn't school, I don't have any problem with players asking stuff like "what was the name of our contact again, you know the one with the fantasy name that we have no idea how you'd spell it?"

I do want players to pay attention to the briefing, as a matter of good manners and just to make sure the adventure goes well. But requiring checks to remember the briefing seems overly oppositional. Usually the VC wants you to succeed after all...


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Thanks guys. I wasn't asking because I have a GM who refuses to repeat the opening text. If we have questions during the briefing, he'll repeat anything needed.

It's more like... GM is exasperated that none of us wrote down anything and we're now halfway through the adventure and we're saying things like, "Hey you NPC, have you seen the kid? His name? Eh, whatever. His description? You know, a kid. Whatever you described, GM."

And then the GM is like, "Ugh, could you guys care any less? It appears that you didn't pay attention. Since none of you recall the description, none of you can give one."

Now I can turn to my followers and say, "Read back your notes about the kid." Right?

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Just your chronicler. Your porter wasn't paying attention in the mission briefing either.

Sovereign Court 3/5

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You bring your Porter to mission briefs! GASP The security risk that poses! My Porter only speaks Tien, loose lips sink revolutions! Who knows what grey gardener informant is prying info out of your porter!

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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I always take notes when I play. My biggest problem is the spelling of people and places. The scenario writers certainly have a lot of fun coming up with names that only a linguist could spell.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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aboyd wrote:

Thanks guys. I wasn't asking because I have a GM who refuses to repeat the opening text. If we have questions during the briefing, he'll repeat anything needed.

It's more like... GM is exasperated that none of us wrote down anything and we're now halfway through the adventure and we're saying things like, "Hey you NPC, have you seen the kid? His name? Eh, whatever. His description? You know, a kid. Whatever you described, GM."

And then the GM is like, "Ugh, could you guys care any less? It appears that you didn't pay attention. Since none of you recall the description, none of you can give one."

Now I can turn to my followers and say, "Read back your notes about the kid." Right?

I think the best way to do this is to just take a moment at the beginning of the session and say "I want to begin now. Please stop doing paperwork and pay attention."

People are distracted, that's normal. Just call them on it. Chances are, if you make a good start where everyone paid attention to the mission briefing, they'll also be more invested in the rest of the story and paying attention to people in it.

4/5 *

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aboyd wrote:

It's more like... GM is exasperated that none of us wrote down anything and we're now halfway through the adventure and we're saying things like, "Hey you NPC, have you seen the kid? His name? Eh, whatever. His description? You know, a kid. Whatever you described, GM."

And then the GM is like, "Ugh, could you guys care any less? It appears that you didn't pay attention. Since none of you recall the description, none of you can give one."

Now I can turn to my followers and say, "Read back your notes about the kid." Right?

This may be a time when you try to uphold the social contract that is PFS, instead of trying to find a rules loophole that allows you to continue to make your GM crazy.

If players clearly don't care about the scenario, aren't engaged, and won't bother to pay attention to mission-critical information, why would a GM want to run it for them? It's disrespectful to the GM to continue this behavior if they've called you out on it before. Why would you want to keep doing that, when they've told you it's a problem?

The Chronicler vanity can "make" the GM re-read you information you should have paid attention to, but there's no rule that can "make" a GM keep running games for players who don't appreciate the effort.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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Devil's Advocate:

I take notes, but there are GMs that mumble or speed talk their way through the box text. There are also locales and events that are far louder than some GM's quiet voices. Although I ask these GMs to repeat themselves on bits I missed, I can tell this really annoys them from time to time. I could see not wanting to annoy such a GM, and then missing out on something critical.

The worst box text is the box text that comes from the Overseer during multi-table specials.

Overseer: [Says three paragraphs of critical information that may have been wittily written.]

What I Hear: The Wah-Wah-Wah sound of adults talking from a Peanuts television special.

This is then followed by a frantic combat in which NONE of the party knows what is going on. I want all multi-table specials to have Overseer box text at each table as a handout the players can read, because most of the time you just can't hear them over the background noise.

I also could see this vanity be useful for Players who for one reason or another have trouble tracking details, whether it is medical or for some other reason. I have played a number of times with an otherwise delightful player who alas seems to have some sort of short term memory issue. We often have to poke him in character and say, "Er, the mission is this..."

Then he blinks, looks sheepish, and says, "Oh, right!" And we play on.

Hmm

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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I just don't think that you should have to expend character resources to get that kind of reminder. Especially if it's external circumstances (usually, noise) it doesn't seem fair to require that.

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

Devil's Advocate:

I take notes, but there are GMs that mumble or speed talk their way through the box text. There are also locales and events that are far louder than some GM's quiet voices. Although I ask these GMs to repeat themselves on bits I missed, I can tell this really annoys them from time to time. I could see not wanting to annoy such a GM, and then missing out on something critical.

The worst box text is the box text that comes from the Overseer during multi-table specials.

Overseer: [Says three paragraphs of critical information that may have been wittily written.]

What I Hear: The Wah-Wah-Wah sound of adults talking from a Peanuts television special.

This is then followed by a frantic combat in which NONE of the party knows what is going on. I want all multi-table specials to have Overseer box text at each table as a handout the players can read, because most of the time you just can't hear them over the background noise.

I also could see this vanity be useful for Players who for one reason or another have trouble tracking details, whether it is medical or for some other reason. I have played a number of times with an otherwise delightful player who alas seems to have some sort of short term memory issue. We often have to poke him in character and say, "Er, the mission is this..."

Then he blinks, looks sheepish, and says, "Oh, right!" And we play on.

Hmm

I don't think its devil's advocate to state that the argument is horrendously malformed and ignorant to the point where it can start driving people away.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I just don't think that you should have to expend character resources to get that kind of reminder. Especially if it's external circumstances (usually, noise) it doesn't seem fair to require that.

Agreed. I was merely pointing out that losing track of scenario box text can come even for players who are doing their best to pay attention to all that is happening.

MadScientistWorking wrote:
I don't think its devil's advocate to state that the argument is horrendously malformed and ignorant to the point where it can start driving people away.

Okay, now I am confused. MadScientistWorking, can you elucidate? Which part of the argument do you feel is problematic, and why? I'm not certain whether you referring to my comment or someone else's, or what about them you thought might drive people away.

Hmm

PS Also, can we all refrain from using heated terms like 'malformed' and 'ignorant', please? That just muddies the discussion and causes hurt feelings.


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Just as an aside, I do my best to take notes in pathfinder, but I have IRL learning issues that cause me trouble with note taking. Like, in school, I have note-taker (when one is available) because I have "disabilities:" I have trouble paying attention to what someone is saying if I am also trying to pay attention to what I am writing at the same time (I can usually only do one or the other, and if I try to do both, I do both poorly), and I have trouble moving things from my short-term memory to my long term memory. It's . . . sub-optimal on every level. I haven't told anyone in PFS yet because it's embarrassing and time consuming to do so, and I generally just do the best I can, but maybe I should just out myself? I dunno. I feel bad getting to the end of the mission and admitting that I don't remember what we're doing anymore and the sketchy notes I wrote don't cover it ^_^;


Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

I also could see this vanity be useful for Players who for one reason or another have trouble tracking details, whether it is medical or for some other reason. I have played a number of times with an otherwise delightful player who alas seems to have some sort of short term memory issue. We often have to poke him in character and say, "Er, the mission is this..."

I don't think players with legitimate disabilities should be required to spend resources to deal with them. The Judge should be made aware of them, and compensate accordingly. Simmilarly Judges should be compensating for any particular adverse conditions. This is not however a baseline for general rules.

Players however who deliberately refuse to engage are another story. Paizo has already gone to considerable lengths to dumb down the roleplaying requirements for scenarios. How far do we want to accomodate the player who wants to do nothing on the table but make hit and damage rolls?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

I've had players who were "lazy to engage" or easily distracted sometimes, but deliberately refusing to engage? I've never seen that.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

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Eristae wrote:
Just as an aside, I do my best to take notes in pathfinder, but I have IRL learning issues that cause me trouble with note taking. Like, in school, I have note-taker (when one is available) because I have "disabilities:" I have trouble paying attention to what someone is saying if I am also trying to pay attention to what I am writing at the same time (I can usually only do one or the other, and if I try to do both, I do both poorly), and I have trouble moving things from my short-term memory to my long term memory. It's . . . sub-optimal on every level. I haven't told anyone in PFS yet because it's embarrassing and time consuming to do so, and I generally just do the best I can, but maybe I should just out myself? I dunno. I feel bad getting to the end of the mission and admitting that I don't remember what we're doing anymore and the sketchy notes I wrote don't cover it ^_^;

I know how you feel. I cant write and listen at the same time. If I do, those two streams or words get mashed up (as I write slower then people speak).

I often ask for something to be repeated in the briefing, and locally they know its because I cant write it down and process the spoken part at the same time. It works out fine.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Sometimes as a player I just kind of chew over the briefing with the other players, asking the "VC" for confirmation.

"So we're supposed to go there and ask what was his name again for what thing? Is he just going to give it to us? Do we have any leverage? And were we supposed to do that in a particular way? Do you care if we break stuff or people?"

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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Eristae wrote:
Just as an aside, I do my best to take notes in pathfinder, but I have IRL learning issues that cause me trouble with note taking. Like, in school, I have note-taker (when one is available) because I have "disabilities:" I have trouble paying attention to what someone is saying if I am also trying to pay attention to what I am writing at the same time (I can usually only do one or the other, and if I try to do both, I do both poorly), and I have trouble moving things from my short-term memory to my long term memory. It's . . . sub-optimal on every level. I haven't told anyone in PFS yet because it's embarrassing and time consuming to do so, and I generally just do the best I can, but maybe I should just out myself? I dunno. I feel bad getting to the end of the mission and admitting that I don't remember what we're doing anymore and the sketchy notes I wrote don't cover it ^_^;

Hmm hugs Eristae.

I'd recommend outing yourself, if you can at all feel comfortable doing so. The gaming community is very diverse, and understanding when they know about your issues. I'm very open about my real-life Math Issues. I cannot do basic addition in game to save my soul. I will announce die rolls and modifiers at the table, and everyone helps me add them up. Me being open about this issue has made my gaming a far better experience for me.

Hmm

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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If you don't want to you don't have to fully out yourself, either. If you say it's hard to take notes and listen at the same time nobody's going to be shocked. I mean, that's hard for most people.

Teachers get training in how to time their delivery. GMs just get "read or paraphrase this" :P

Lantern Lodge 5/5

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Do GMs not offer details when players ask them? That seems so foreign to me.

As has been stated, there are any number of reasons why a detail (even a major one) could be lost in passing. Noise, distractions, accents, whatever. If a player asks a GM about something that was given to them in the briefing (you know, where a strategy is discussed with the express purpose of informing agents), they should be entitled to an answer.

I appreciate when players take notes (and slow the cadence of briefings to accommodate it), but if someone asks me halfway-through "what was the name of the book we're looking for, again?" I'm not going to pretend that Ambrus Valsin wouldn't repeat himself two or three times over. VCs want the missions done; an informed agent is a better equipped agent.

Long story short: Don't penalize players for issues with communication. There's nothing to be lost and plenty to be gained by good answers to fair questions.

Corollary: Don't use this vanity as an excuse to withhold information from your players. "I could tell you...if you had a Chronicler," is even worse.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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Yeah, I think the existence of the vanity sends a bad signal really.


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Thanks for the support, everyone! It really makes me feel better. So maybe I will out myself. But does anyone have advice on how to start that conversation? I mean, it feels weird to just go up to someone's table and be all, "Hi! So I'll be playing at your table today and I have some memory issues and note-taking issues that mean it will be difficult for me to process and write down what our mission is, but I will do my best . . ." although I suppose I could do just that.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that if a player at one of my tables told me what you just wrote, I would certainly do whatever I could to accommodate.

I imagine most GMs (and fellow players!) would do likewise.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Aran Zey sighs, writes up a cliff notes version , and ties it to the party paladin with a pretty ribbon. "Do not eat this note" is the first instruction


Thanks, Jeff Hazuka!

-eyes BigNorseWolf carefully, then noms on the note-

5/5 5/55/55/5

a magic mouth set for that contingency muffledly repeats the mission briefing from inside the pathfinders belly. Because aram zey knows pathfinders

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