Any advice for a Thassilonian Wizard?


Advice


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I got a boon for PFS to play a Thassilonian Wizard (Sin Mage on d20pfsrd), and I was wondering how to best make use of it (and if at all). You see, my main problem is that I don't like d6 classes all that much, yet want to try something out of my comfort zone. My preferred way of playing is at the frontline, or being a heavy support (love playing a Cleric or Bard, for instance), so being a back-row caster just feels wrong to me. But I still want to try.
My first idea was a Transmutation-focused character. I've seen too many blasters and they don't hold my interest too much, and Divination, Enchantment, and Illusion don't really hold my interest. Greed forbids two of those schools, so it's an easy choice. I'd like to try a buffer character, not necessarily someone who finishes combats on his own, but helps others excel. Transmutation is the go-to example, I think, though Abjuration holds some value as well.

With that in mind, would it be a good idea to build such a character, or would I just be better off choosing a different class? I'm not adverse to multiclassing, weird archetypes, or some sub-optimality, as long as it's fun. Due to accumulated GM credit, I can start him at level 3. And if this seems viable, any advice? The closest I've been to playing a Wizard is an Occultist, but that one's still pretty much in melee, with medium armour and a decent non-magical damage output.

EDIT: Would I be able to choose a Focused School as well? The Enhancement school looks cool.
EDIT 2: Would the two spell slots be in addition to the regular bonus spells from that school, or does it replace the one? That is, in exchange for not being able to cast certain spells at all, they get a single extra spell per spell level.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Advice for a Thassilonian Wizard?

Be immortal.

<g>

I read that they get two spell slots from their specialty school *instead* of just one, not in addition to it. Presumably they also don't get any of the usual benefits of having focused on a single school, like arcane school powers... although this isn't actually specified in the text.

It'll be an interesting challenge to play with zero access to two schools of magic. Go for it!


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Yeah, gaining an another two spell slots seems too good to be true. And I don't read anything about not getting school powers, though I agree it isn't really spelled out all that well.


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Thassilonian specialists still get school powers. The only changes are gaining the extra spell per level in exchange for losing specific schools as prohibited completely.
The stat'ed out Rune Lords have the school powers, for example.


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The big thing about Thassilonian Wizards is that they are old school wizard specialists which means they are COMPLETELY locked out of opposition schools,which are strictly determined by their specialisation, they can't prepare those spells, and they can not use wands, scrolls, staves of those spells without UMD.


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Have fun with the roleplaying, too, and have Opinions (definitely with the capital letter there) about your opposition schools and anyone who uses such spells. XD


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Transmutation is an odd school to specialise heavily in. Just about any spell worth casting in it is close range, touch attack or personal - pyrotechnics may be an exception if someone's willing to throw a flask of alchemist's fire or fire a specialty arrow for you.

All those personal-range polymorph spells, and a few touch-range attacks. You might be tempted to try and make a 'heavy support' character out of a wizard. I.e. go with 14 int to start with, dump wis & cha and boost physical stats, use the physical enhancement school ability (don't take the enhancement subschool) and switch between buffing and personally fighting as you see fit. This feels like a half-orc to me.


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Definitely keep your options open. The best benefit of thassilonian magic is the the extra two spell slots of your school, but you have to prep the same spell twice so pick your favorite powerhouses like Expeditious Retreat or Enlarge Person, Animal Buffs, Levitate, Knock, Haste, Fly and so on and then use your other slots to cherry pick battlefield control and damage or whatever else you think you might need that day.

Losing Illusion hurts, but realistically the only spell you'd be casting out of it most of the time is some form of invisibility.


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One game around here only has them as the Specialists, which they clam make Universal a wise choice. The game I play most in doesn't even have Specialists.


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I have three golden rules for building wizards. Follow these rules, and you will have a decent wizard at very minimum:
1) Have a high intelligence score
2) Be a specialist
3) Do not oppose Conjuration or Transmutation

Follow those steps, and you'll be fine. You may have a bit of a learning curve with the wizard spell list, but the great thing about wizards is that you can change your spell loadout from one day to the next so if you make a mistake you can fix it the next day.

One thing to keep in mind with Thassilonian speicalists is that you need to prepare the same spell in both of your bonus spell slots, which is an annoying restriction. Make sure to pick up spammable spells to compensate for this.

Dark Archive

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Frogsplosion wrote:

Definitely keep your options open. The best benefit of thassilonian magic is the the extra two spell slots of your school, but you have to prep the same spell twice so pick your favorite powerhouses like Expeditious Retreat or Enlarge Person, Animal Buffs, Levitate, Knock, Haste, Fly and so on and then use your other slots to cherry pick battlefield control and damage or whatever else you think you might need that day.

Losing Illusion hurts, but realistically the only spell you'd be casting out of it most of the time is some form of invisibility.

I hate to give up Mirror Image more than invisibility.

The real drawback to the archetype is the loss of choice on which schools to give up. So you usually end up choosing a specialty based on what you can stand NOT to have. Generally I do not mind giving up Enchantment (Loosing Heroism though) and Necromancy (There goes False Life) but I do not think that is a choice.

Dark Archive

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My two cents is to look at your appropriate school's arcane discoveries. Then look at your party comp. Then look at your spell list. Your goal is going to be mitigating your largest weaknesses while utilizing the class for its strengths. For instance look at an evocation wizard, what are weaknesses for a blaster caster. Magic immunity, energy resist, saves, and melee combat. Now magic immunity there isn't much you can do. Energy resist we can look at the add mixture wizard and gain the ability to change type. Saves we will either be boosting with feats or byt taking spells that don't have a save/have good effects even on a save. Now for melee, we have to look at party comp, without a frontline you SOL, so try and stay back and not be the one getting hit. For what "type" of transmutation you are going to go for I would heavily consider party comp, if you already have a ranger, bard, sorcerer, and rogue maybe it is best to help the fighter out on the front lines and be a giant elemental. The inverse is true as well. Say your party is all fighters, barbarians, and warpriests, maybe you should hang back and baleful polymorph some enemies, or buff them with some spells.


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Transmuters make good buffers -- it's fine to cast touch spells on your party members, and DCs don't matter if they're not saving anyway. Lots of good buffs on the transmutation list.

Normally I'd say "work with your fellow party members" here -- figure out what spells will most help them to excel. With PFS you often don't have a regular party, just whomever shows up to the table, so look for spells that are reliable support for whatever your new friends will be doing.

Work on battlefield control -- separate enemies so your party can deal with them piecemeal instead of all-at-once, find ways to debuff enemies or interfere with them, or ways to change conditions to boost your friends. Haste or slow are both excellent transmutation.


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There is the New Thassilon Specialist feat. It lets you pick your forbidden schools.

Silver Crusade

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From the depths of the grave, I summon thee, Necromancer's guild!


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"Rise, and become Perfected in Undeath."


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JasonFrost7 wrote:
There is the New Thassilon Specialist feat. It lets you pick your forbidden schools.

New Thassilonian Magic lets you pick one of them, but the other is still locked in. Still it would let a Greed Mage keep Enchantment as a banned school and then get rid of Evocation or Necromancy so that they have a more ideal set of banned schools instead of having to give up on the versatility of Illusion spells and especially the Shadow family of spells.

Sloth Mages could similarly have an "ideal" set of banned schools by keeping Illusion and then adding Enchantment or Necromancy to the banned pile alongside Evocation.

Pride Mages, on the other hand, would still have a hard choice to make because either way they're giving up one of either Conjuration or Transmutation, although the Shadow Conjuration line probably gives back more than Shadow Transmutation does.


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Question, so has anyone brought up the runesage archetype?

It counts as a universalist wizard but can also use thassolian magic. You must even be able to turn your bonded object into an amulet of magecraft, so that your 2 thasslian slots can be used for any spell of that days respective school!

Just ya know, a thought


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IluzryMage wrote:

Question, so has anyone brought up the runesage archetype?

It counts as a universalist wizard but can also use thassolian magic. You must even be able to turn your bonded object into an amulet of magecraft, so that your 2 thasslian slots can be used for any spell of that days respective school!

Just ya know, a thought

They have not. Interestingly, it also gives an initially weaker but scaling version of the False Focus feat, though only for one school of magic at a time (and never Divination).


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Although Thassilonian Wizards get their Arcane School Powers, James Jacobs said somewhere in the "ask James Jacobs" thread (if I remember correctly) that they have to use the vanilla version, not a specialized version, because both Subschools and Thassilonian Specialist are archetypes in all but name, and both modify Arcane School.

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