What happened to the Old Gods?


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Alright, since we know that 7 of the gods of the current Core 20 (Abadar, Desna, Iomedae, Pharasma, Sarenrae, Urgathoa, & Zon-Kuthon) are members of the New Core 20 (which includes some gods that we already know about today, & some alien gods). So that begs the questions of What have the gods been up to in the last thousand or so year? And why are some of them less popular than they used to be? They said in the stream that MOST of the old gods are fine, just less worshipped, but that still leaves a chance for some of them to have died. So without further rambling, I shall give my predictions on "Where Are They Now: Deity Edition"

Abadar:
Still widely worshipped, his followers have formed a MegaCorp called AbadarCorp. Surprise, surprise, the god of civilization and capitalism is still going strong, who would thought?

Asmodeus:
Real major missing person (well, devil anyway). A big player like Asmodeus doesn't just drop out of people's minds unless they are thrown out. Here is my theory: One day Desna, Sarenrae, & Iomedae were having lunch when one of them mentioned that Asmodeus was a total tool. Iomedae agreed with this assessment asked why they tolerated him. When the others failed to come up with a satisfactory answer, Iomedae proposed that they take Asmodeus out. They found him on his throne, exhausted after a long day of shouting "JUST AS PLANNED!" every single time anything of any import happened and as such easily overpowered him, with Iomedae and Sarenrae taking turns slashing him with longsword and scimitar respectively, while Desna kind of stood around cursing the fact that she didn't choose a more useful favored weapon. After they finished, the rest of hell got into a civil war over who would get to be the new top devil, so Iomedae, Sarenrae, and Desna, satisfied with a good day's work, went to go hangout with Shelyn, but found out she was otherwise engaged.

Calistria:
Elven deity, so since elves are no longer core, it makes sense that she is no longer core. Alternatively, see my entry for Shelyn.

Cayden Caliden:
Hardly a major god, so no great surprise he isn't more popular in space. Probably went on a bender, and by the time he got back home the gap happened, so most of his followers had already forgot about him, so he has had to start his church again from scratch.

Desna:
Space butterfly is still popular in space. What a shock. Maybe she finally killed Lamastu and got back the domain of animals, but I doubt it.

Erastil:
Not much to hunt in space, and increased tech means increased urbanization. No surprise that he fell to the wayside.

Gorum:
War is always relevant, so I am surprised he didn't stick around. Most likely option? Probably wasn't enough fighting for his tastes, so he left for somewhere that there was. Will come back when this section of the galaxy becomes interesting again.

Gozreh:
God of nature. Empty vacuum. Not a good mix. Enough said.

Iomedae:
As said in Heaven Unleashed Heaven has become more Iomedae's realm over the years. After killing Asmodeus they let her sit on the fancy throne in the Garden, and she is now Commander-in-Chief of Heaven's armies. Let evil beware!

Irori:
Had a conniption fit when the gap happened, and has been sulking for the last couple hundred years. The fact that there are barely any monks around anymore has only worsened his mood, so he ran off to find a new civilization to influence.

Lamashtu:
Another big missing one. My theory is Pazuzu, in his never ending quest to kill his ex-girlfriend, actually found something that worked/ became a god himself, and the ensuing fight resulting in a mutual kill. The other lords of the Abyss should probably be concerned that they lost two such powerful members of their alignment, but they don't because it means more power to them.

Nethys:
In a fit of "FOR MAGIC!", Nethys accidently created the Gap. When he came to and realised all the spellcasters that remained were 6th level spontaneous ones, he left the system in disgust.

Norgorber:
Became so sneaky that everyone forgot him, leaving him with little power on the material plane.

Pharasma:
Exactly the same as always. Nothing save the end of the universe phases Pharasma.

Rovagug:
What happened to Rovagug is tied so closely to what happened to Golarion it isn't worth asking as we shall never get an answer. Probably still locked inside Golarion, wherever that is.

Sarenrae:
A bit more busy because she has to represent more suns, but otherwise the same.

Shelyn:
Ah, The billion credit question. What happened to Shelyn? She isn't the sort of goddess people just stop worshipping, and people are unlikely to just forget best girl. My theory? Calistria, realizing that everyone liked Shelyn far better than her, went into a jealous rage and attacked Shelyn. Their fight hasn't been going on long by deities standards, but has still been going on since before the Gap, and as they are in mortal combat currently, neither can spare much notice to the affairs of the material plane, causing both of their churches to suffer without their guidance.

Torag:
Super dwarven deity in an area where there isn't many dwarves? I just can't tell why he is no longer as popular.

Urgathoa:
In space, no one can hear your legion of undead continue to party hard.

Zon-Kuthon:
Seeing as his sister is busy, and space is extremely dark, cold and lonely, ol' ZK has been seeing a bit of a golden age for his faith. Still extremely bonkers.

What do you think the developments of the deities has been like for the last thousand years? Do you think that you know who any of the other members of the new Core 20 are going to be? Leave your ideas in the comments below.

Grand Lodge

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Perhaps Asmodeus is quiet because some people started mining Hell for energy and now he's got some dude in green armor tearing through Hell and nothing seems to stop this guy. Poor Archdevil has bigger things to worry about at home than on the material plane.

Also someone keeps blasting rock music everywhere and now he's got a headache.


Balancer wrote:

Perhaps Asmodeus is quiet because some people started mining Hell for energy and now he's got some dude in green armor tearing through Hell and nothing seems to stop this guy. Poor Archdevil has bigger things to worry about at home than on the material plane.

Also someone keeps blasting rock music everywhere and now he's got a headache.

THE HONORABLE BATTLE-BROTHER, DOOM MARINE, ALWAYS DID HAVE GOOD TASTE IN MUSIC TO LISTEN TO WHILE KILLING HELLSPAWN!

*HEADBANGS RIGHTEOUSLY*


They said Asmodeus is still around. I think he's just not as popular now because with Golarion gone he doesn't have a country of toadies anymore.


Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
They said Asmodeus is still around. I think he's just not as popular now because with Golarion gone he doesn't have a country of toadies anymore.

They said MOST of the original Core 20 were still around, leaving the possibility that something could of happened to some of them. I only chose Asmodeus because is the most high profile guy not to still be a member of the Core 20.


Malefactor wrote:
Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
They said Asmodeus is still around. I think he's just not as popular now because with Golarion gone he doesn't have a country of toadies anymore.
They said MOST of the original Core 20 were still around, leaving the possibility that something could of happened to some of them. I only chose Asmodeus because is the most high profile guy not to still be a member of the Core 20.

EDIT: Whoops, guess that really was one of the questions they answered first time through. Sorry man, my bad. In that case, he was only crippled as part of the attack, and now has a harder time doing everything.


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Or he is lying low, letting them think they gave him what for, while he quietly laughs "JUST AS PLANNED!"...

Perhaps.


I can see the hunting god being taken up by bunty hunters


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You know, if most of us are thinking along the lines of, "Why are some of the gods less popular than they used to be?", then I think there is something of a misunderstanding. I think they real answer as to why they are no longer in the core 20 is that we are now seeing them not only in the future, but in a larger and different arena. I mean, Hasselhoff got his start in the US in the 80s as an actor, but wound up bigger in Germany later on for his singing, but over all is not considered an A-lister on the world stage for either reason. The top 20 on the bluegrass music charts ≠ the top 20 on the pop music charts. I think this is a similar situation for the most part.

Think about it. The Pathfinder core 20 are the most popular on a technologically-backward, magic-rich world with a limited number of sentient races to worship them; a single world (that we know of for certain). The Starfinder core 20, for all we know at the moment, are likely the most popular on thousands of worlds with an unaccounted for number of sentient races that includes all those from Golarion.


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Wait. No Asmodeus? My dreams of working for Asmodeoco are SHATTERED?!

Scarab Sages

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Well, there is a place connected to all the heavens and hells. A place, much like Florida, where the old folks migrate to at a certain point in their lives. To live their remaining years eating pudding, playing canasta, trading STDs and commiserating the fact that no one visits them anymore.


Lorewalker wrote:
Well, there is a place connected to all the heavens and hells. A place, much like Florida, where the old folks migrate to at a certain point in their lives. To live their remaining years eating pudding, playing canasta, trading STDs and commiserating the fact that no one visits them anymore.

That's why they call it the Boneyard.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Iomedae is the oddity here

That we still have the deities of civilization, stars, death, sun, undead (because Eox) and darkness in a setting like Starfinder is hardly surprising

But the goddess of Paladins ?

And she seems to also be the only ascended human left in the Core 20

I smell something fishy here


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The Raven Black wrote:
Iomedae is the oddity here... I smell something fishy here

Or sulphery...?

*strokes chin significantly*


The Raven Black wrote:

Iomedae is the oddity here

That we still have the deities of civilization, stars, death, sun, undead (because Eox) and darkness in a setting like Starfinder is hardly surprising

But the goddess of Paladins ?

And she seems to also be the only ascended human left in the Core 20

I smell something fishy here

Well, her area of concern includes rulership and justice. Those things don't stop being important, and she would probably be the type to proselytize.


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Tableflip McRagequit wrote:
Wait. No Asmodeus? My dreams of working for Asmodeoco are SHATTERED?!

One of the big secrets of this setting is that Asmodeus is still around but Abadar isn't. Asmodeus actually killed Abadar and took all his stuff.

Would that work for you?


David knott 242 wrote:
Tableflip McRagequit wrote:
Wait. No Asmodeus? My dreams of working for Asmodeoco are SHATTERED?!

One of the big secrets of this setting is that Asmodeus is still around but Abadar isn't. Asmodeus actually killed Abadar and took all his stuff.

Would that work for you?

I hope to work in Marketing so... yeah, I can make that work.

Silver Crusade

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David knott 242 wrote:
Tableflip McRagequit wrote:
Wait. No Asmodeus? My dreams of working for Asmodeoco are SHATTERED?!

One of the big secrets of this setting is that Asmodeus is still around but Abadar isn't. Asmodeus actually killed Abadar and took all his stuff.

Would that work for you?

To quote Lex Luthor,

Lex Luthor wrote:
"Do you know how much power I'd have to give up in order to be president?


Alternative theory: Sarenrae caught Asmodeus batting his eyes at Shelyn, and went full yandere. Asmodeus and Shelyn have not been seen since (the occasional angel reports strange noises coming from the Dawnflower's basement, but she personally reassures them that it's nothing to worry about).
[/jk]


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Clearly Nethys will be back one the omniscience spell has been updated to handle two time periods at once.


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Alternatively, Shelyn and Calistria got married and decided to take a 5 million year honeymoon.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm more curious about the other 13 gods marks. I mean, we know one is newish and is an AI. I would assume before that one there is a god for tech. So that's 11 other new gods. I assume the lashunta have a god or two they add, kasatha probably bring one on the mix. Maybe once for exploration? Those are the ones I'm curious about, both new and minor who have stepped up


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I'm just crossing my fingers for Besmara of the Space Pirates


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Zarukir wrote:
I'm just crossing my fingers for Besmara of the Space Pirates

Hopefully she is fine with all her followers being slaughtered and their planets being blown up by a blonde in power armor...


2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
I'm more curious about the other 13 gods marks. I mean, we know one is newish and is an AI. I would assume before that one there is a god for tech. So that's 11 other new gods. I assume the lashunta have a god or two they add, kasatha probably bring one on the mix. Maybe once for exploration? Those are the ones I'm curious about, both new and minor who have stepped up

I was under the impression that the majority of the Core 20 are going to be kept, and only some, definitely less than 10, are going to be new.


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I was under the impression that this was basically the same thing as Tian Xia - different regions (and times) tend to have different gods in 'focus'. Some, like Pharasma, tend to be more-or-less permanently relevant to everyone. Others are less so.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, I don't know that ANY deity is actually dead or gone until we hear as much- it's just that Starfiner's culture is going to be a bit different.


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Patrick C. wrote:
2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
I'm more curious about the other 13 gods marks. I mean, we know one is newish and is an AI. I would assume before that one there is a god for tech. So that's 11 other new gods. I assume the lashunta have a god or two they add, kasatha probably bring one on the mix. Maybe once for exploration? Those are the ones I'm curious about, both new and minor who have stepped up
I was under the impression that the majority of the Core 20 are going to be kept, and only some, definitely less than 10, are going to be new.
Starfinder Q&A wrote:


Q: Rob: Which of the gods from Pathfinder's core 20 are part of Starfinder's core 20, and what happened to the ones who aren't?

RM: Actually 7 gods from the core 20 Pathfinder gods have stayed core 20 for Starfinder: Abadar, Desna, Iomedae, Pharasma, Sarenrae, Urgathoa, and Zon-Kuthon. We also have, rounding out the core 20, I'm not going to tell you their names, there are some other gods you're familiar with in Pathfinder who have sort of graduated up to the core 20, and there are new and alien gods round that out.

As for what happened to these other core gods, for the most part, nothing. In the same way that Pathfinder has the core 20 and then a much larger group of gods that just aren't worshiped as much? The same thing holds true in Starfinder. The core 20 are the ones that are most commonly worshiped in the Pact Worlds, which is sort of the central setting.

So if a god didn't make it into the core 20, like Cayden Cailean, that doesn't mean anything happened to Cayden Cailean, it's just that his worship is not as popular in the future in Starfinder.

Q: Asmodeus is still in the game?

RM: He is still in the game, but he is not in the core 20.

So yeah, 7 are still Core 20, the rest are (for the most part) perfectly fine, just not widespreadly worshipped. As for new Core 20 members, I reckon there shall be 7 old gods who have become more important, and 6 alien gods who are new to the setting in terms of previous knowledge about them.


Cole Deschain wrote:
Yeah, I don't know that ANY deity is actually dead or gone until we hear as much- it's just that Starfiner's culture is going to be a bit different.
I agree with that assessment for the most part, but
Starfinder Q&A wrote:
As for what happened to these other core gods, for the most part, nothing.

(emphasis mine) seems to imply that something may of happened to at least one of them, or at least they are leaving it open for the possibility.


Malefactor wrote:
Patrick C. wrote:
2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
I'm more curious about the other 13 gods marks. I mean, we know one is newish and is an AI. I would assume before that one there is a god for tech. So that's 11 other new gods. I assume the lashunta have a god or two they add, kasatha probably bring one on the mix. Maybe once for exploration? Those are the ones I'm curious about, both new and minor who have stepped up
I was under the impression that the majority of the Core 20 are going to be kept, and only some, definitely less than 10, are going to be new.
Starfinder Q&A wrote:


Q: Rob: Which of the gods from Pathfinder's core 20 are part of Starfinder's core 20, and what happened to the ones who aren't?

RM: Actually 7 gods from the core 20 Pathfinder gods have stayed core 20 for Starfinder: Abadar, Desna, Iomedae, Pharasma, Sarenrae, Urgathoa, and Zon-Kuthon. We also have, rounding out the core 20, I'm not going to tell you their names, there are some other gods you're familiar with in Pathfinder who have sort of graduated up to the core 20, and there are new and alien gods round that out.

As for what happened to these other core gods, for the most part, nothing. In the same way that Pathfinder has the core 20 and then a much larger group of gods that just aren't worshiped as much? The same thing holds true in Starfinder. The core 20 are the ones that are most commonly worshiped in the Pact Worlds, which is sort of the central setting.

So if a god didn't make it into the core 20, like Cayden Cailean, that doesn't mean anything happened to Cayden Cailean, it's just that his worship is not as popular in the future in Starfinder.

Q: Asmodeus is still in the game?

RM: He is still in the game, but he is not in the core 20.

So yeah, 7 are still Core 20, the rest are (for the most part) perfectly fine, just not widespreadly worshipped. As for new Core 20 members I reckon there shall be 7 old gods who have become more important, and 6 alien gods who are new to the...

Interesting. I hadn't seen that before. Thank you.

The comment about "old faces" intrigues me. What of the Parthfinder "lesser" gods could be important enough... Brigh? Casandalee?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Brigh seems likely. Ditto for Casandalee. Maybe Alseta?


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If Zun-Kuthon is prominently featured in Starfinder, watch out for cyborg Kytons. Actually, this might explain what happened to some other deities . . . .


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I would imagine that Rovagug is missing along with Golarion. The only alternative would be that he somehow escaped his prison during the Gap.

The Exchange

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I'm pretty sure Asmodeus got demoted by a convocation of all the other deities.

Quote:
You kept on assuring us you could keep Rovagug locked up for all eternity. And you lost him? You had ONE JOB!


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I'm still sticking with my personal theory that somebody got close to unleashing Rovagug, and the gods took one look and were just like "Nope, not doing that again", so they moved the Cage somewhere people couldn't get to it and collectively cracked down on information to be sure people couldn't find it.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

If Zun-Kuthon is prominently featured in Starfinder, watch out for cyborg Kytons. Actually, this might explain what happened to some other deities . . . .

something something wormhole weapon

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

IIRC even the gods are affected by the Gap. Not sure where I read that though :-/


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I think they just said that the gods aren't telling anyone what happened before the Gap.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I surmise that the spread of alignments among the new 20 core gods will be similar to that of the old 20

We had :

LG 3
NG 2
CG 2
LN 2
TN 3
CN 2
LE 2
NE 2
CE 2

The 7 that made it through give us :

LG 1
NG 1
CG 1
LN 1
TN 1
CN 0
LE 1
NE 1
CE 0

And here we see the out of game reason for many missing and kept old core gods : max 1 old god for each alignment and the one if any that makes at least some sense in Starfinder.

Hence Iomedae

Now to muse on the alignment and identity of the new gods

For example Besmara for CN sounds perfect :-)


Do we know that Pathfinder Campaign Setting core deities that make it through to Starfinder are all keeping the same alignments?

For instance, I can envision Lamashtu seeing that the corporate thing could actually work for her, and move over to Neutral Evil. Hi - ho, GMO!


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This unit hopes Brigh is among the new core 20. With androids and other artificial beings on the rise, the age of the machine will be fast approaching.

Liberty's Edge

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Do we know that Pathfinder Campaign Setting core deities that make it through to Starfinder are all keeping the same alignments?

For instance, I can envision Lamashtu seeing that the corporate thing could actually work for her, and move over to Neutral Evil. Hi - ho, GMO!

For the sake of backward compatibility, keeping the same alignment for deities is by far the simplest choice

As for Brigh, I doubt it as I believe the new AI god will cover the machines portfolio


There is also the possibility that some of the demigods pulled a Sarenrae/Lamashtu and got to full god status.

I just don't know which of the present ones could justify the growth... Ragathiel, maybe?

Nah... He's too similar too Iomedae...


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Backward compatibility is more for the monsters than anything else. I don't see any reason why they would feel the need to keep alignments the same for all of the deities, as that's more of a setting thing anyway.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Zarukir wrote:
Backward compatibility is more for the monsters than anything else. I don't see any reason why they would feel the need to keep alignments the same for all of the deities, as that's more of a setting thing anyway.

A Cleric has to be within one step of his deity's alignment.

Deity changes alignment.

Hilarity ensues.

A PFRPG CN Cleric of Lamashtu sent forward in time to the Starfinder setting to find her NE and thus himself an instant ex-Cleric would not be amused IMO

Not to mention all the specific divine servants of said deity or the additions it brings to Summoning lists.

Far simpler to keep the alignment the same


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Outer Gods are waiting as they always have. They will return, and when they do the cosmos shall quake with rapturous madness.


Malefactor wrote:

Alright, since we know that 7 of the gods of the current Core 20 (Abadar, Desna, Iomedae, Pharasma, Sarenrae, Urgathoa, & Zon-Kuthon) are members of the New Core 20 (which includes some gods that we already know about today, & some alien gods). So that begs the questions of What have the gods been up to in the last thousand or so year? And why are some of them less popular than they used to be? They said in the stream that MOST of the old gods are fine, just less worshipped, but that still leaves a chance for some of them to have died. So without further rambling, I shall give my predictions on "Where Are They Now: Deity Edition"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I personally hope Asmodeus is gone. I'm currently running a campaign in preparation for Starfinder. The party is nearly level 20. They're all going to die in what they think is the final battle, and find themselves in some far plane where they will perform tasks for 10 of the "weakened deities". After each task, the deity gives each party member an item and infuses their essence into the item (also effectively giving the players 1 mythic level each time this happens). Once they've reached Mythic Level 10 and are fully geared.. into the Nine Hells they go with the final destination - Killing Asmodeus!!

With the major "good" deities AND Asmodeus out of the picture.. it will give rise to technology! Woot! ;)


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One thing to keep in mind is that the core 20 deities are the 20 most popular deities in the Inner Sea region of Golarion. Tian Xia, on the same planet, has a different core 20.

The Starfinder setting is a much large community in which the descendants of the current inhabitants of Golarion are a distinct minority -- most of its people are from other planets. The passage of time is probably the least of the reasons for having a different core 20 deities.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Based on my above analysis, I surmise that one of the elevated current lesser PFRPG deities will have the CE alignment.

Looking for likely candidates, I found three with some potential :

- Deskari, as deity for the Swarm (Space Locusts)

- Ghlaunder, to enhance its rivalry with Desna

- Pazuzu, which would be interesting seeing that Lamashtu is not in the Core 20 anymore

I am really looking forward to more tidbits about the gods in SFRPG :-)


The Raven Black wrote:

Based on my above analysis, I surmise that one of the elevated current lesser PFRPG deities will have the CE alignment.

Looking for likely candidates, I found three with some potential :

- Deskari, as deity for the Swarm (Space Locusts)

- Ghlaunder, to enhance its rivalry with Desna

- Pazuzu, which would be interesting seeing that Lamashtu is not in the Core 20 anymore

I am really looking forward to more tidbits about the gods in SFRPG :-)

Bit of a problem with the concept of Deskari being a member of the new Core 20, seeing that

WoTR Spoilers:
he very likely ended up being torn to shreds by the OP mythic PC's in the final battle, and Paizo doesn't like invalidating things their fans might of done, so I doubt will see references to anything the Party of any adventure would be likely to kill (especially seeing that the Gap was probably thought of to keep everyone's version of events "canon" by making it so no one knows the truth.

The other 2 might have a chance, but it would seem odd to have Lamashtu's archrival without Lashtamu.

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